UPDATE 6/25/14! NJ Gov. Chris Christie proposes taxing e-cigs at rate equal to $2.70/pack cigarette tax + other issues

[Bill Godshall]

Republican New Jersey Governor Chris Christie has proposed (in his budget) taxing e-cigs at rate equal to NJ's $2.70/pack cigarette tax to punish and seize money from vapers, and to destroy Brick and Mortar sales of e-cigs in NJ.
Gov. Christie Plans New Tax Rate for E-Cigarettes

We need to mobilize lots of NJ vendors and vapers to oppose this ASAP.

Looks like Chris Christie won't be the Republican presidential candidate in 2016

 

[Hulamoon]

If only I could believe that Bill. :-(

 

[10x sugar]

Thanks for the post Bill. I would like to help if I can. Please advise. Thanks!

 

[rothenbj]

That could get expensive if they decide to consider a ml of liquid equal to 1 or 2 packs of cigarettes. Can you imagine paying $81 to $162 in taxes on a 30ml bottle?

 

[Bill Godshall]

NJ legislators need to be told that taxing e-cigs (especially at that outrageous rate) will destroy brick and mortar e-cig retailers in NJ by giving most of their business to Internet retailers and B&M retailers located near borders of adjacent states.

 

[MorpheusPA]

We here in Pennsylvania would like to point out that New Jersey is a very thin state and no part is that far from the border. Just saying.

Looks like Chris Christie won't be the Republican presidential candidate in 2016, as they'll never nominate someone who wants even higher taxes on e-cigs than extremist left wing Democrats.

I appreciate your news, Bill, but when you pull this you shoot yourself in the foot. Repeatedly. I get that you have an obvious political ax to grind, but please take it to the Outside where it belongs.

 

[2coils]

This is not good! We need to mobilize in NJ, I will visit shops this weekend!!

 

[JollyRogers]

The idiots in politics just don't get it. One can make their own coils/wicks and mix their own vg pg and flavoring. They will just force people to go underground and put B&Ms in NJ out of business. Their fantasy of 35million is a fallacy, they will loose the sales, business and income taxes when those B&Ms close shop. This is not tobacco or the stuff that is now legal in Colorado generating a ton of tax revenue. Plus it is safer.

 

[sammeedog]

I'm so PO'd over this. Been cigarette free since October. I'm really trying to kick this habit and than to see this crap. How many people are going to give up if this goes through. This state has gone down the toilet. This tax is pure greed. Someone needs to tax this jackass's food intake. Doesn't he have another bridge to block.

 

[Sundodger]

I'm so PO'd over this. Been cigarette free since October. I'm really trying to kick this habit and than to see this crap. How many people are going to give up if this goes through. This state has gone down the toilet. This tax is pure greed. Someone needs to tax this jackass's food intake. Doesn't he have another bridge to block.

I think he just remembers that to be like Ted Kennedy you have to block off the bridge before you drive off it. I used to work at the West End Racket Club, West Long Branch, in the summer way back in the early '70's. Can't imagine all those folks not being able to puff a cigar let alone vape.
ANY Pol in those days trying to pull this would have been run out of the State, if they had time to run.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

NJ legislators need to be told that taxing e-cigs (especially at that outrageous rate) will destroy brick and mortar e-cig retailers in NJ by giving most of their business to Internet retailers and B&M retailers located near borders of adjacent states.

Now that NPR's 'Youth Radio' reporting has helpfully recorded an 8th grader who has explained to all of us how many of her friends get vape pens off the internet and use them right in front of teachers (talk about fact checking), and Glantz has got the press and the politicians eating out of his hand on the gateway argument ... I'm sure Congress will be happy to mandate F2F sales.

State of all political 'stripes' will fall over themselves to cash in.

Who says Washington (DC) is dysfunctiona? Nonsense. It could happen practically overnight.

 

[DrMA]

The idiots in politics just don't get it. One can make their own coils/wicks and mix their own vg pg and flavoring. They will just force people to go underground and put B&Ms in NJ out of business. Their fantasy of 35million is a fallacy, they will loose the sales, business and income taxes when those B&Ms close shop. This is not tobacco or the stuff that is now legal in Colorado generating a ton of tax revenue. Plus it is safer.

Trust me, they know exactly what they're doing. As far as they're concerned, the current 1-2 million vapers are already lost causes -we can coil Kanthal, we can DIY, we can order from China, we can stealth vape wherever we want, there's nothing they can do about it...

What they want to prevent at all cost is the loss of tobacco tax revenue from the rest of the 20 million current smokers out there, who might eventually switch to vaping. That's what all this is about - keep smokers smoking.

 

[VapieDan]

Trust me, they know exactly what they're doing. As far as they're concerned, the current 1-2 million vapers are already lost causes -we can coil Kanthal, we can DIY, we can order from China, we can stealth vape wherever we want, there's nothing they can do about it...

What they want to prevent at all cost is the loss of tobacco tax revenue from the rest of the 20 million current smokers out there, who might eventually switch to vaping. That's what all this is about - keep smokers smoking.

I agree with you in part. Yes they want tax money. The legislators love to tax "evil" things to justify their actions with no public outcry. I disagree they are trying to keep people on cigarettes. They just are covering the bases in the event cigarette sales go down the toilet which they already are doing. 6% drop this year. Extrapolate that out to 10 years and 50% of their revenues are gone. As far as DIY goes it is a loophole they will plug at some point when it starts making an impact. Down the road I see a nicotine tax. Here in Michigan the cigarette taxes double the cost per pack. The loophole there was loose tobacco for a few years. When the roll your own (RYO) method starting seriously increasing they taxed loose tobacco. Everyone keeps approaching this as a moral issue. Vaping does what all the powers to be say they want. Kill off cigarettes. The truth is they are afraid if that happens their pockets will be empty. BY the way I am sick of this "Kid" issue as well. Kids will experiment and I would much rather see them playing around with E-Cigs than tobacco cigarettes. "Oh this will lead them into cigarettes'! If that is the case why don't cigarettes lead to cigarettes? If that was true 100% of high school graduates would smoke. What do you think would happen if everyone purchased fully electric cars in a short period of time? Electricity taxes not to mention higher electricity rates.

 

[coalyard]

I propose a $2.70 tax on Krispy Kreme doughnuts...

But more seriously, I live in neighboring New York. Once the jackals see a new stream of revenue they can exploit, it will happen. For the children®. I am stocking up on Nic. liquid NOW. I would strongly suggest that everyone else do the same while you can still afford it. Not to be a wet blanket, and I do get involved politically and advocate, but if you think even for a moment that as the e-cig industry grows and becomes more fiscally relevant that the government won't dip their beak, I have a bridge you might be interested in.

"First they came for the cigarettes, and I did nothing, because I don't smoke. Then they came for the soft drinks, but I did nothing, because I don't drink soda." etc.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

Here is the "logic" behind the minor gateway argument, and why it has so much intuitive appeal:

1) Non-prescription nicotine use is immoral because this is associated with tobacco (and tobacco use is immoral). So is doing anything that "looks like" tobacco use - particularly smoking.

2) Vaping 0% juice is therefore immoral, because it "looks like" smoking and/or "looks like" non-prescription nicotine use.

3) Whenever immoral but otherwise legal behavior occurs, society has an interest in reducing the incidence of such behavior through taxation or limited ("time, place and manner") prohibition, so long these restrictions affect "innocent" citizens to a minimal degree.

4) The eyes of impressionable children are vulnerable, and must not be exposed to images of immoral behavior: whether on a screen or otherwise. (This argument is coming to a public park or a sidewalk near you very soon - regardless of how close to a doorway or ventilation intake you may be standing. It may also be coming to the passenger compartment of your vehicle.)

***

But yes, this about taxation. Affordable higher-concentration water-soluable nic. juice is one of the two choke points - this has no alternate uses other than as an input to prescription drugs. I wouldn't assume that it will continue to be available from China or over the internet. (As with all such substances, your local not-so-nice folks will have it.)

Equipment is the other problematic area, although that can and will be overcome by "vape clubs." Watch the Europeans, they will be moving ahead on this in the next year or so - due to the TPD. I'm sure we'll see them develop many simple and innovative homemade PV designs that can be easily fabricated from common products. By the end of the decade, we'll all need to have the required tools (sottering guns) and knowledge (know how to read circuit boards, etc.). Maybe Radio Shack will need to reopen a few stores.

There isn't a thing in the world that the gov't can do about food-grade PG, VG, and water-soluable flavorings. Those are just too commonplace and have too many other uses.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Please keep comments On Topic.


The Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee will hold public hearings on the Fiscal Year 2015 State Budget on the following dates:

March 13, 2014 - 11:00 AM
Paramus Council Chambers
1 Jockish Square
Paramus, New Jersey 07652

March 19, 2014 - 11:00 AM
Burlington County Institute of Technology
The Auditorium
695 Woodlane Road
Westampton, New Jersey 08060



Persons wishing to testify can register online (New Jersey Legislature and next to "Budget Hearings," click online registration) or call the Legislative Budget and Finance Office at 609-847-3105 to register by phone. Those persons presenting written testimony are asked to provide 20 copies on the day of the hearing.


The Assembly Budget Committee will hold public hearings on the Fiscal Year 2015 State Budget on the following dates:

March 12, 2014 - 9:30 AM
Montclair State University
University Hall Conference Center, 7th Floor
1 Normal Avenue
Montclair, New Jersey 07043

March 18, 2014 - 9:30 AM
State House Annex
Committee Room 11, 4th Floor
Trenton, New Jersey 08625



Persons wishing to testify can register online (New Jersey Legislature and next to "Budget Hearings," click online registration) or call the Legislative Budget and Finance Office at 609-847-3105 to register by phone. Those persons presenting written testimony are asked to provide 20 copies on the day of the hearing.

 

[2coils]

Please keep comments On Topic.


The Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee will hold public hearings on the Fiscal Year 2015 State Budget on the following dates:

March 13, 2014 - 11:00 AM
Paramus Council Chambers
1 Jockish Square
Paramus, New Jersey 07652

March 19, 2014 - 11:00 AM
Burlington County Institute of Technology
The Auditorium
695 Woodlane Road
Westampton, New Jersey 08060



Persons wishing to testify can register online (New Jersey Legislature and next to "Budget Hearings," click online registration) or call the Legislative Budget and Finance Office at 609-847-3105 to register by phone. Those persons presenting written testimony are asked to provide 20 copies on the day of the hearing.


The Assembly Budget Committee will hold public hearings on the Fiscal Year 2015 State Budget on the following dates:

March 12, 2014 - 9:30 AM
Montclair State University
University Hall Conference Center, 7th Floor
1 Normal Avenue
Montclair, New Jersey 07043

March 18, 2014 - 9:30 AM
State House Annex
Committee Room 11, 4th Floor
Trenton, New Jersey 08625



Persons wishing to testify can register online (New Jersey Legislature and next to "Budget Hearings," click online registration) or call the Legislative Budget and Finance Office at 609-847-3105 to register by phone. Those persons presenting written testimony are asked to provide 20 copies on the day of the hearing.

I should be able to make most, if not all of the days. Any input from CASAA, BILL G, or Greg would be appreciated. Please PM me. Anyone from central jersey wishing to car pool PM me as well.

 

[cmknight]

People who are testifying can start off with the following:

" I'd like to start by saying that I voted for Gov. Christie ... but I won't be making that mistake again ..."

 

[Hulamoon]

This may be redundant given the smartness of the folks commenting or reading this thread, but I found that in Hawaii not all vape shops are keeping up to date with the slithery slinky ways the committees slip their "public hearings" into the stream. As with many such cunning ploys, we generally only hear about it when it's too late.

If it hadn't been for Bill G, I would not have known the dates here. But I did find that notifying/emailing any and all vape stores in the district as soon as possible can help a lot, because there's nothing as enticing as money and jobs to get them attending, or for committee bloodhounds to listen up.

 

[Bill Godshall]

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/omb/publications/15bib/BIB.pdf
Page 24
Investing in New Jersey’s Competitiveness While Fighting for Tax Fairness
• Job-Creating Business Tax Cuts. The fiscal year 2015 budget provides an additional $616.5
million in business tax relief for a cumulative total of almost $1.7 billion in the fifth year of phase in
for these bipartisan, job-creating business tax cuts to help businesses remain and grow in New
Jersey.
o Since Governor Christie took office, New Jersey has added nearly 122,000 private-sector
jobs, and the state has experienced positive overall job growth every year the Governor
has been in office.
• Closing Tax Loopholes to Level the Playing Field. Governor Christie is taking action to level
the playing field and promote tax fairness by closing corporate tax loopholes, removing
inconsistencies, and modernizing enforcement for tax delinquents. These commonsense reforms
will promote tax fairness for taxpaying families who play by the rules, while generating an
estimated $205 million in revenue to support those investments that matter most.
• Tax Parity for E-Cigarettes. Currently, nicotine-based electronic cigarettes are unregulated and
subject to standard State sales taxes only. This proposal would bring them in line with the same
tax applicable to conventional cigarettes



Please note that people can testify at just one of the two NJ House Hearings, and at just one of the two NJ Senate hearings.
Basically, one House and Senate hearing are in North Jersey, while the other House and Senate hearing are in South Jersey.