Milk Tart (South African version)

[Ricksha]

I'm on a quest to make a Milk Tart recipe which captures the flavor from good old fashioned South African Milktart. If there are folks on this forum who knows this delectable desert please weigh in on this creation.

The basic profile of this milktart (according to my taste buds that is) is something like this:
Milky
Hint of condensed milk
Rich crust
Creamy smooth
Light Custardy (egg, butter, milk = custard)
Hints of vanilla
Bakery flavor ( I like the baked version of milktart)
Hint of cinnamon
Sprinkling of nutmeg

I posted on another forum the originations of this recipe which is here (The Milk Tart Thread). For this thread I'm only going to post from where I am now in the process (the v2 mix was dropped mainly due to the spiciness of TFA Pie Crust and FA cookie which was part of that mix)

Milktart V1.b
Mixed at 30ml, 4% Nic, 75/25 VG/PG mix
Dairy Milk (TFA) 1%
Malted Milk (TFA) 0.5%
Dulce de Leche (FW) 1%
Apple Pie (FA) 1.5%
Sweet Cream (CAP) 1%
Bavarian Cream (TFA) 1%
Vanilla Custard V2 (CAP) 3%
Brown Sugar (TFA) 0.5%
Cheesecake Graham Crust (TFA) 1%
Cinnamon Danish (TFA) 0.5%
Hazelnut (FW) 1%
Total flavor = 12%

Milktart V3.b
Mixed at 30ml, 4% Nic, 75/25 VG/PG mix
Dairy Milk (TFA) 1%
Dulce de Leche (FW) 2%
Cake Batter (CAP) 0.3%
Pie Crust (FW) 2%
Cream (FA) 2%
Vanilla Custard V2 (CAP) 3%
Cookie (FA) 1%
Cheesecake Graham Crust (TFA) 1%
Total flavor = 12%

Here is graphic of the mixes in Excel format

Taste notes to follow.

 

[Ricksha]

Taste notes
Recipes steeped for 3 days before vaping. Vaped in 3 different tanks, SMOK RSST @ 0.25ohm, Geek Vape Avocado @ 0.3ohm, Uwell Crown @ 0.5ohm. Mod used is a RX Wismec 200 @ 65w.

Because the RSST tank (SS wick + SS mesh, Clapton NiCr wrap) is unusual and not used by many, taste notes are excluded. Having said that this setup is awesome as the vapor is a deep thick smoky flavor. Both these mixes tasted great.

Also excluded are taste notes for the Avocado. I find complex flavors don’t vape well in this tank. The taste is great but because the chamber is so small and the wick usually very wet, the sweetness of the juice is the first thing you taste. IMHO its great for simple mixes but not that good for complex flavor profiles. The Griffin is the better tank for me, but I have yet to vape these juices with it.

V1.b
For me this version is close to Milktart, prob a 6-7 out of 10. I vaped 20 ml’s in the last 2 days on this juice alone! It is smooth on the inhale with a light creamy custard that develops. Exhale is milky, silky smooth. Theres a hint of flaky pie crust and a hint of Cin. Dan which I may still drop to .25%. Theres a slight nuttiness from the FW Hazelnut which you taste on the exhale. I am liking this juice a lot.

V3.b
Heres the thing with this mix. Its RICH, and sweet. It is a custardy flavor but I think lacks 2 main things, milkiness and the crust. Not sure why the milky taste isn’t there but for sure the FW Pie Crust is too weak. Problem is the pie crust cannot be increased else you’ll end up with a vape that taste all “Flavor-Westy”. So I’m going to park this version as well.

Having gone through all this effort I really need to eat some real Milktart so I can reset my taste buds as to how close these recipes match the real deal. But V1.b is pretty damn awesome for me.

Next steps: gotta mix more V1.b as I’m close to being out. Mix another batch with less of the Cin. Dan. and try different combos of only TFA, FA and CAP creams. Will update if there are any startling revelations.

 

[man00ver]

@Ricksha - I hadn't heard of this treat before, but I'd sure like to eat one! I might get my bake-happy wife to try out one of the Internet recipes for it.

Meanwhile, I wonder if you've seen THIS CONCENTRATE from a South-African vape company:

10ml Concentrated Cinnamon Milktart Flavor for Eliquid / Ejuice DIY / Self Mixing

I'll be following here in hopes you nail the right combo.

 

[Ricksha]

@Ricksha - I hadn't heard of this treat before, but I'd sure like to eat one! I might get my bake-happy wife to try out one of the Internet recipes for it.

Meanwhile, I wonder if you've seen THIS CONCENTRATE from a South-African vape company:

10ml Concentrated Cinnamon Milktart Flavor for Eliquid / Ejuice DIY / Self Mixing

I'll be following here in hopes you nail the right combo.

I've come across the name but there are no reviews or clone recipes out there. Thus me building it from scratch

 

[IDJoel]

Disclaimer: I have not had Melktert (Milk Tart) so I am talking from pure ignorance.

However, that said, I went looking on the web for (food) recipes to get an idea of what goes into an "authentic" melktert. Aside from a variation on a custard pie I noted several people/recipes who claim to be familiar with the "real deal" describe more of a cookie/biscuit/shortbread type of crust. I realize that there are probably as many different ways to make this as there is to make cheesecake and you obviously have one particular one in mind and that may, or may not, be part of it.If it is; I would look at exploring more of the cookie and biscuit concentrates to fortify/fill out the crust portion.

The other thing I was thinking about was the nutmeg note which seemed to be a common theme through most of the recipes. I noticed you were using hazelnut in lieu of nutmeg. I was thinking that an Eggnog concentrate might be good here. It would add the nutmeg note and also help to flesh out the custard and maybe even help with the "condensed milk" perception.

One more thing I saw in one (claimed... again I don't know) authentic recipe was the author whipped her egg whites separately before folding them into the rest of the custard base thus giving a more airy, fluffy consistency to her finished product. If this is part of your experience/remembrance then maybe a Meringue would have a place in your creation as well.

That's all I got. I'll sit down, be quiet, and let the grown-ups talk now.

I am going to eagerly follow this thread to see what you come up with... as it sounds like it can really be good.
Best wishes!

 

[man00ver]

@IDJoel - You must have researched the same threads I did. I also saw the comments about nutmeg. The most direct source for that would probably be TFA Holiday Spice (which I don't have, of course), but TFA Eggnog (which I also don't have) is said to have a potent "nog flavor" which might fight toward the front if enough were used to get the nutmeg note, and I can't find many user notes about CAP Eggnog. But I also think meringue might belong in this recipe, see below.

@Ricksha - I studied your posts, the other threads out there, the online food recipes, and a couple other similar vape mixes. Then I tossed out all the ingredient lists and started over from scratch, using only your profile and "taste" chart above. Here's my sketch:

SA Milktart - man00ver v1
0.25% Acetyl Pyrazine 5% (TPA) <-- crust
1.00% Apple Pie (FA) <-- crust, sweet
2.00% Catalan Cream (FA) <-- sweet, creamy, custard, vanilla, cinnamon-spice
1.00% Cream Fresh (FA) <-- creamy, milky, condensed milk effect
0.50% Custard (FA) <-- condensed milk effect
1.00% Dairy Milk (TPA) <-- milky
0.50% DX Brown Sugar (TPA) <-- sweet, bakery-spice
0.50% Meringue (FA) <-- sweet, condensed milk effect
0.25% Spicy Biscuit (INAWERA) <-- cookie crust, cinnamon-spice (w/ginger, clove, cardamom; nutmeg sub?)
2.00% Vienna Cream (FA) <-- sweet, creamy, custard, vanilla
Flavor total: 9.00%

I mixed a test batch on Friday 3-Feb. I'll give it a toot after Valentine's Day and let you know what I think. Having never tasted milktart, I have no basis for comparison, but I'm shooting for something lighter and more milky than a custard pie or a buttermilk pie.

 

[IDJoel]

@IDJoel - You must have researched the same threads I did.

I also saw the comments about nutmeg. The most direct source for that would probably be TFA Holiday Spice (which I don't have, of course)

I am not familiar with that one. But your mention also made me think of pumpkin pie/ pumpkin spice as potential alternatives (cinnamon, nutmeg, clove).

but TFA Eggnog (which I also don't have) is said to have a potent "nog flavor" which might fight toward the front if enough were used to get the nutmeg note, and I can't find many user notes about CAP Eggnog.

I have used both TFA and LA Eggnog. Both carry a noticeable/recognizable nutmeg note. Both also offer a thick creaminess to a mix. I too have no experience with CAP's version.

But I also think meringue might belong in this recipe, see below.

I believe this is all going to be whether @react is looking for a lighter, fluffier custard, or a more dense, thicker, solid custard. I only saw the one recipe where the author directed this... so I don't have any idea how authentic this is.

SA Milktart - man00ver v1
0.25% Acetyl Pyrazine 5% (TPA) <-- crust
1.00% Apple Pie (FA) <-- crust, sweet
2.00% Catalan Cream (FA) <-- sweet, creamy, custard, vanilla, cinnamon-spice
1.00% Cream Fresh (FA) <-- creamy, milky, condensed milk effect
0.50% Custard (FA) <-- condensed milk effect
1.00% Dairy Milk (TPA) <-- milky
0.50% DX Brown Sugar (TPA) <-- sweet, bakery-spice
0.50% Meringue (FA) <-- sweet, condensed milk effect
0.25% Spicy Biscuit (INAWERA) <-- cookie crust, cinnamon-spice (w/ginger, clove, cardamom; nutmeg sub?)
2.00% Vienna Cream (FA) <-- sweet, creamy, custard, vanilla
Flavor total: 9.00%

I really like where you are going with this! I do have a question and a suggestion:

Question: I have no experience whatsoever with FA's Apple Pie. Does this have actual "apple" in its flavor profile? Any custard pie (sorry; again I have not had melktert so this is the closest I can compare it to) is very delicate; even bland (if it wasn't for all that rich, creamy, SWEET, goodness, with a touch of spice). Adding a distinct flavor like Apple (pie) could (?) potentially drag this off in a different direction. Might a more neutral plain "crust" like TFA or FW Pie Crust be a better choice? And, if the shortbread crust is the OP's memory; perhaps (no more than) a 50/50 pie crust/ biscuit (or cookie, and/or graham cracker {for the cinnamon)) be worth consideration? I can't speak for Milk Tarts, but custard pies are as much about the crust (due to their delicate nature) as they are about the filling.

I apologize, my parents were both depression era youngsters. I ate a lot of scratch custard pies as a result (even as a 60's kid), because they were inexpensive (and good!), and so the memories are still strong and comforting (and perhaps over-imprinting on what @Ricksha is trying to create).

Suggestion: Instead of Catalan Cream use eggnog (for denser cream and light spice)(or TFA's Holiday or Pumpkin Spice for more spice note w/o the cream influence). Catalan has a distinct citrus note, and like the "Apple" Pie, may(?) overwhelm the delicacy of the custard.

I wish I had enough of the specific ingredients in inventory to put a couple of these to trial!

Thanks for baring with me!

 

[man00ver]

Suggestion: Instead of Catalan Cream use eggnog (for denser cream and light spice)(or TFA's Holiday or Pumpkin Spice for more spice note w/o the cream influence). Catalan has a distinct citrus note, and like the "Apple" Pie, may(?) overwhelm the delicacy of the custard.

You may be right about this. FA Apple Pie has an excellent crust flavor with a vanishing apple note under it. It can easily be hidden while still using the crust, but a milky plain custard top may not cover it. I lowered its percentage from Ricksha's v1.b and added AP to boost the bakery, but still. I did also worry that the light citrus of the Catalan Cream and the FA Custard might synergize and possibly brighten the apple, and ruin the milktart perception, as you say. Since I included it primarily for creamy spice, I'm happy to hear your eggnog endorsement. If I replace the Catalan, I think the Custard can stay for condensed milk duty. If the apple is still too bright afterwards, and though Ricksha banished it from his v2, I agree a low-percentage combo of TFA Pie Crust + INW Biscuit could be a winner (with AP help), with no need for Spicy Biscuit if the eggnog supplies the spices. It'd be a shame to lose that fine FA Apple Pie crust, but we'll see. Thanks for playing!

To buy list: TFA Eggnog and Holiday Spice, possibly FA Condensed Milk

 

[IDJoel]

and added AP to boost the bakery, but still.

I like this thought. What about FA's Joy? At just the right percentage it can give a "hint" of yeast and bolster the sweetness at the same time?

I'm happy to hear your eggnog endorsement

I am liking the idea of this but... if the custard/cream balance is already good; maybe the pumpkin spice, or holiday spice, would better serve without weighting down the overall effect. Again; it really depends on what @Ricksha was looking for. (Of course you could rein back on some of the other dairy/creams to accomplish this too.)

I agree a low-percentage combo of TFA Pie Crust + INW Biscuit could be a winner (with AP help), with no need for Spicy Biscuit if the eggnog supplies the spices.

I wouldn't be quick to throw out the Spicy Biscuit unless the ginger is going to want to take over (I have yet to try it; so I don't know). I have read a lot of positives for Spicy Biscuit and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

It'd be a shame to lose that fine FA Apple Pie crust, but we'll see.

Don't lose anything; I am talking way above my pay grade (flavors I have not personally used)! I am only flapping my internet lips.

Thanks for playing!

Thank you for letting me sit at the big boys table until the grownups arrive!

To buy list: TFA Eggnog and Holiday Spice, possibly FA Condensed Milk

FA Condensed Milk? I haven't even heard of that one. If you do try; please post your results. I would love to know. I made myself sick on it on more than one occasion as a child. I remember it it be rich, thick, creamy, SWEET, and did I say rich? I am 54 years old now and I still eyeball it when I walk past it while in the grocery store... <sigh>. PLEASE give me an excuse to use this in a vape!

 

[man00ver]

@IDJoel - Your input is much appreciated! Not only are you providing good ideas on flavorings and possible strategies, but I find your stories very relatable also (I'll be 52 momentarily, and my parents are also Depression babies, so we're generationally related).

FA Condensed Milk has diacetyl, and I understand it's more of a potent powdered-milk flavor than the canned stuff (which child-me also used to sneak sips of). I've seen a recommendation for adding it to FA Custard and FA Marshmallow (5:2.5:1) to get the Eagle-brand effect, but it must be kept very low <0.5% to avoid powdery takeover. I'm considering this as a sort of 3rd- or 4th-line fallback if the FA Custard + Meringue + Fresh Cream doesn't produce the result I want.

FA Joy has a little potential, but it may be too doughy/bready. It's similar to how I'd want to avoid Cinnamon Danish/Roll; wrong kind of bakery to make nice crust. But you need the spice from somewhere, then, and something like FA Cinnamon Ceylon/TFA Holiday Spice seems a little inelegant if eggnog could serve a dual purpose. Similarly, I'd rather use TFA Horchata Smooth, on the low side, to fill in some lightly-creamy cinnamon if the Catalan doesn't pan out (I can bump the Vienna a little in this case to put back some vanilla custard).

As to Spicy Biscuit, it's a great flavor, but may still be not suitable. The spices are potent and tend to knock the cookie flat, and the spice blend may be wrong for this. But don't worry, I'm just collecting ideas at this point, and won't be adding, subtracting, or changing anything until I get a taste of what's already cooking...after a proper steep of course. Thanks again!

 

[Ricksha]

Thanks for the input @IDJoel Theres some good creativity flowing here

Disclaimer: I have not had Melktert (Milk Tart) so I am talking from pure ignorance.
However, that said, I went looking on the web for (food) recipes to get an idea of what goes into an "authentic" melktert. Aside from a variation on a custard pie I noted several people/recipes who claim to be familiar with the "real deal" describe more of a cookie/biscuit/shortbread type of crust. I realize that there are probably as many different ways to make this as there is to make cheesecake and you obviously have one particular one in mind and that may, or may not, be part of it.If it is; I would look at exploring more of the cookie and biscuit concentrates to fortify/fill out the crust portion.

The other thing I was thinking about was the nutmeg note which seemed to be a common theme through most of the recipes. I noticed you were using hazelnut in lieu of nutmeg. I was thinking that an Eggnog concentrate might be good here. It would add the nutmeg note and also help to flesh out the custard and maybe even help with the "condensed milk" perception.

One more thing I saw in one (claimed... again I don't know) authentic recipe was the author whipped her egg whites separately before folding them into the rest of the custard base thus giving a more airy, fluffy consistency to her finished product. If this is part of your experience/remembrance then maybe a Meringue would have a place in your creation as well.

Interesting thing about this authentic Milk Tart is that some prefer it with a crust and others have no crust at all. In the crusted recipe it is a light crust and that's what I was shooting for. I am intrigued by the Eggnog which @man00ver also raised. I don't have stock but will order tonight. I also think the Meringue may be a good alternative to try.

In the authentic recipe the custard is light and not a heavy custard. The V2.a recipe used FA Custard but for whatever reason this didn't give me a good result. Admittedly I've had better luck with CAP's custard and I have a suspicion that the vendor who supplied my FA custard may have "tampered" with it as I've had other FA flavors from him that were a little "wonky".

I agree with @man00ver that FA Apple Pie is a superb crust and one can easily hide the apple portion. In my experience though the ideal percentage is between 1-1.5%. Any higher than that and the Crust taste is lost. I've tried using AP to boost the crust in bakery mixes but have had mixed results. I'm keen to know how your mix turns out @man00ver

Like you @IDJoel I am weak when it comes to Condensed Milk, it makes me do things I shouldn't when I'm close to it (as in gobble down an entire can of the stuff). I've had relatively good results with the TFA Milk and FW Dulce de Leche combo (maybe added FA Marshmallow)

On another note, my early v2 version used TFA Pie Crust and FA Cookie. The gingery spicy taste isn't part of the actual flavor profile so I discarded that combination.

SA Milktart - man00ver v1
0.25% Acetyl Pyrazine 5% (TPA) <-- crust
1.00% Apple Pie (FA) <-- crust, sweet
2.00% Catalan Cream (FA) <-- sweet, creamy, custard, vanilla, cinnamon-spice
1.00% Cream Fresh (FA) <-- creamy, milky, condensed milk effect
0.50% Custard (FA) <-- condensed milk effect
1.00% Dairy Milk (TPA) <-- milky
0.50% DX Brown Sugar (TPA) <-- sweet, bakery-spice
0.50% Meringue (FA) <-- sweet, condensed milk effect
0.25% Spicy Biscuit (INAWERA) <-- cookie crust, cinnamon-spice (w/ginger, clove, cardamom; nutmeg sub?)
2.00% Vienna Cream (FA) <-- sweet, creamy, custard, vanilla
Flavor total: 9.00%

@man00ver let us know how this recipe turns out.

 

[Ricksha]

BTW, i did some research on Nutmeg and the only single flavor I could find is with LA. However this is an essential oil and shouldn't be vaped. So I ordered TFA Holiday Spice (together with Eggnog) which according to them "This flavor is very much like a spice mixture that is mostly nutmeg".

 

[man00ver]

The V2.a recipe used FA Custard but for whatever reason this didn't give me a good result. Admittedly I've had better luck with CAP's custard and I have a suspicion that the vendor who supplied my FA custard may have "tampered" with it as I've had other FA flavors from him that were a little "wonky".

You may know this already, but FA Custard is an Italian-style flavor, with lighter creaminess, lower vanilla, and added lemon as compared to British/American vanilla custard. I wouldn't expect it to be the main note in your milktart. I'm aiming to make it simulate a "sweetened condensed milk" flavor in the background, where it will *hopefully* gang-up with the little bit of Meringue under the Cream Fresh (where the lemon will *hopefully* be contained). The main custard notes I expect to come from the Vienna and Catalan Creams...where *hopefully* the Catalan's citrus will be muffled between the Vienna and the Dairy Milk.

I'll know more in 3 days or so after tryout.

 

[man00ver]

BTW, i did some research on Nutmeg and the only single flavor I could find is with LA. However this is an essential oil and shouldn't be vaped. So I ordered TFA Holiday Spice (together with Eggnog) which according to them "This flavor is very much like a spice mixture that is mostly nutmeg".

I didn't get eggnog, but I did order some TFA Holiday Spice this morning. I also ordered some FA Condensed Milk, which I'll probably dilute before using. All because I found this inspiring recipe in the list of a mixer I follow on ELR (Shaner)...

Milk Pudding With Fig and Rose Water Caramel:
0.5% Butterscotch (FA)
0.5% Caramel (FA)
0.5% Cinnamon Ceylon (FA)
1.5% Cream Fresh (FA)
2% Fig Fresh (FA)
1% Milk Condensed (FA) <--NOTE: flavoring is diluted to 10% in PG, it's really 0.1% in this mix
0.25% Orange (FA)
1% Rose (FA)
Flavor total: (7.25%) 4%

So I thought if I dropped out the fruits and flowers, I might have a good start on "SA Milktart - man00ver v2." Just add a dash of Holiday Spice for nutmeg, and maybe a splash of Vienna Cream for a small custard boost: could make a nice filling. Then 1-1.5% FA Apple Pie for the crust. I'll whip this up as soon as the new flavors arrive.

My v1 is still steeping; it'll be a week tomorrow. I was going to give it 2 weeks, but I might try it sooner. It smells like it's getting together, but I think I detect the apple in my nose, so it may not be the right mix for this. It will probably be worth keeping anyway, but I'll have to name it something else.

 

[IDJoel]

BTW, i did some research on Nutmeg and the only single flavor I could find is with LA. However this is an essential oil and shouldn't be vaped. So I ordered TFA Holiday Spice (together with Eggnog) which according to them "This flavor is very much like a spice mixture that is mostly nutmeg".

FWIW another ECF user @Fozzy71 reported Wednesday that Real Flavors is intending to release a Nutmeg sometime late February. You might want to keep your eyes pealed for that.

 

[G-Fog]

If it helps, my wife has been making the same melktert recipe for the last 50 years, and she got it from her granny. So a real old SA recipe.
Hers has a pastry base.
Filling is.
Milk
Castor sugar
Eggs
Unsalted butter
Flour
Almond essence
Cinnamon.

Pretty simple, but to replicate may be another matter.
Good luck.

 

[man00ver]

@G-Fog - Thanks, that's a bit useful. It puts a few flavors on my idea list: CAP Golden Butter, CAP Butter Cream, FA Almond, FA Marzipan. The castor sugar rekindles interest in FA Meringue, too. Do you taste the eggs in your wife's recipe, or are they mostly for consistency?

Maybe nutmeg doesn't belong here after all. That would put eggnog flavoring right out, along with TFA Holiday Spice. For an eggy taste in that case, I might consider INW Custard. It's a new one for me, and my single-flavor test mix is a week old today. At 3%, it's the eggiest-smelling I've ever had. I'll see how it tastes later, after sleep.

 

[G-Fog]

@man00ver the egg is only for consistency, and is not tasted in the tart filling, which is mostly custard tasting with a hint of almond, and with the cinnamon sprinkled on the surface of the tart before baking
My wife was horrified that someone would add nutmeg to the recipe lol.
Hope this helps

 

[IDJoel]

Maybe nutmeg doesn't belong here after all.

FWIW: the recipes I looked at (again... I have no idea as to their "authenticity" ) used the nutmeg to dust the top of the finished tart (with, or in place of, cinnamon). Also @Ricksha did mention it in the OP. I say that with ALL respect to @G-Fog's wife, cooking, and family history and traditions. I imagine that it might be a regional, or even family, variation/interpretation.

 

[G-Fog]

Would it be helpful for me to scan the recipe, and then you will be able to make and taste the real deal, strictly in the interests of science of course
My wife has typed it up for friends, and made it easier to make allowing for modern baking methods.
Let me know and I could email it to you.