Thank you for sharing this. I agree that comparing 2009 to 2017 in vaping isn't really going to work well. They might as well try to compare the AM/FM original Sony Walkman to the latest smart phone. Research studies are always going to be behind by the time they get published, and if they involve technology, they will be horribly outdated because the devices they are reviewing have changed considerably during that time.
The cigalike kit devices may not be enough to get smokers to switch completely, but I think many of us started there and got the idea that vaping might work if we got something better. If the governments kill vaping now, it will be extremely hard for today's smokers to find the more customisable devices many of us use now. I really think all of the anti's need to back off a bit and give vaping enough time to do some real long-term studies. I think we have enough anecdotal evidence that it might really be safer and more effective as a tool to get people off cigarettes.
I prefer customisable to advanced as a way to describe the products many of us on ECF use because I think the ability to customise our gear to suit our tastes is what got many of us to switch completely. The kits may not help all of the people that are ready to switch if they don't offer the bits and pieces that each smoker needs to get off the cigarettes. We joke in here about MTL is beginner and sub-ohm DL is advanced, but really it comes down to whatever it takes to keep us happy and off the burning tobacco.
I was watching a Chantix commercial on TV a few days ago and thought it was rather interesting that they were comparing it to gums, patches, and other BP quitting methods and saying that their pills will help those people that couldn't quit with the officially endorsed aids. They didn't mention that they tried to compare it to vaping, and all I could do was think, "Hmmmmmm...."
Is vaping sticky?
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Good Morning, Fellow Vapers/Vapettes! My first time in here actually trying to write something so please, bear with me? I've been reading, reading and... reading. This is just fabulous!! My son-in-law owns a vape shop (not me) here in Quebec and 'vaping' here is treated much like the '11th Sin'. Geez! I think prostitution, gambling, drinking and drugs get better reviews than the vaping industry. At least those industries are, by far, much better understood and, it seems, even more respected than the vaping industry. It's just insane and these 'officials' are just nuts, unaware, uninformed and simply put... just unable! This is just simply beyond my comprehension. Huh? How can that be? What the hell are they thinking? After all this world has been through they are going to try and make us believe that the vaping industry has thrown the whole world off its main axis and 'there ain't no com'in back now'? Please! To put such a controversial issue and matter into the hands of those who have little or no actual knowledge of this industry is just sacrelidge and insanity! I want to do it!! It's just not that big of deal! In any event, long story short..... we vapers cannot be stopped!! We're just too big! They couldn't stop prostitution, they couldn't stop gambling, they couldn't stop drinking and they sure didn't stop drugs so, go ahead guys, just try and stop this! They can't do that either! Frankly, Shirley... I'm not really that worried. We will survive... just as all the other 'vices' have. "Pot" will be legal here by the summer of 2018 and we'll open another shop just to handle that too! Again, just can't be stopped! So, do you really believe they can put a stop to vaping? I want the 'fight' for this and I would love to be one of those 'fighters' (as part of a larger team effort, of course) to be out front on the steps lobbying for our rights and telling them how it really is and how it really should be. We all know that we are being treated unfairly and that they are trying to cheat us out of what is constitutionally ours. What I see here in Quebec, especially with the new Law44, is in a word... communistic! Seriously! And they are here! You can't have any 'decorations' in, on or around your store, it draws people's attention...? No signs, no advertisements, no sales, no promotions, no views from outside the store to the inside, cannot allow any equipment or liquid to be seen from the front of the store either (so you have no clue it's a vape shop, I guess). In other words, do not do anything to run your business... we simply will not allow you to. So, you can have your vape shop business but, just don't do anything to run it? Doesn't it just make you want to take a baseball bat upside someone's head? Geez! The idiocy, the ignorance, the arrogance, that need for control! Really big ones here, huh? Well, gotta run for now, troops! Need to go look for my bat.... (haha!) I would like to wish all of you out here a fabulous weekend and thank each of you who actually took the time to read my 'ramblings' on this matter. Just needed to get this off my chest, I guess. It's been 3 years now that I have watched my son-in-law give this lil' family business his all, all his heart, all his soul, his life, his family and anything else he's got just to stop 'them' from stopping him! What right do they have to do this to anyone or to such an industry? Thanx again! I won't... NO! We won't stop... we won't give up... NEVER! Let me know if my big mouth, experience and knowledge can be put to good use out there anywhere on this issue and I'll be more than happy to pitch in (I'll bring the bat too!).
Are they ever going to figure out that they simply CANNOT compare or even consider comparing e-cigarettes with, against or -vs- traditional cigarettes? They're idiots! All of them! How hard can it be? Or rather, I guess the question is... how hard can they make it? Pretty dog-gone hard from what I've experienced and seen, agreed?
I agree with you 100%! "If in their minds".... This speaks for most of the elderly Quebecois here without a doubt! And, here in Quebec, that's most of the population too. Oooooh... that 'change-over'. They hate it! They won't listen, they don't want to listen. I actually convinced several of my 'older' friends who smoked to try vaping and they all did but, only briefly. I couldn't get any of them to 'stick-to-it'. Seems the older folks tend see vaping as just a little more complicated than firing up a good ole' traditional cigarette. It's just that I know just how fabulous vaping truly is because I smoked traditional ciggy's for 44 years myself. I switched to vaping 3 years ago and never looked back at those nasty ole' things and I am extremely proud of this! Now my son-in-law owns a vape shop and the fight he has had just to keep his doors open in unbelievable. All the vendors here in Quebec are really having a hard time with this/them. I want to help! One lil' person with a really big mouth... what can I do?
Pod vapes such as the juul ate definently the best option for ex smokers
Thanks for the great, thought-provoking paper. I too, am not liking the term 'sticky' but hey, it's just semantics and I can get over it. What would be a cool (IMO) contrast paper, would be one that focuses on what we HAVE found to be 'sticky' about vaping. I was one of those who were "NEVER going to quit smoking" Flat out loved it. I quit in 09 using 401's. Remember pyramid teabags? I quit within 2 days using these icky cig-a-likes and felt alone in my vaping journey until I found ECF. Now, I enjoy vaping (and everything about it) even more than I ever did smoking. And yep, I still 'do' nicotine. I think I could write a paper on all the reasons why vaping is more sticky than smoking for me but would love to see something with other's views. I wonder what criteria the individuals used to come up with the 87% rate. It's not really clear to me but maybe someone can explain further?
Sparrots, my view parallels yours in many ways - was a 'never going to quit cigarettes' but did in 2009, and will never go no-nic because of the benefits of nicotine. I went the 510 route - Janty Dura C - and avoided 401's although that was my first ecig as well. :- ) As to:
I stand by my statements in my post here:
Read this! - Is vaping sticky?
...that Bonnie Herzog differentiates between "e-cigs" and VTMs (tanks and mods). It may not be completely clear, in that the "ecig consumers" comment was Oliver's, not Herzog's - but I quoted Herzog's directly - ie: "ecig users". Herzog's comment was in the 'ecig user' form. And the 87% stat would seem to me to fit the ecig user of today - someone in transition and a dual user, who still smokes, but does not represent the Mod/Tank user of today. From wiki:
"In the US, tobacco producers have a significant share of the e-cigarette market.[59][244] As of 2015[update], 80% of all e-cigarette sales in convenience stores in the U.S. were products made by tobacco companies.[245] "
[That 80% is close to the 87% stated and the products made by tobacco companies are still mostly, (with exceptions), ecigs, as Herzog understands the term. ] continuing....
"According to Nielsen Holdings, convenience store e-cigarette sales in the US went down for the first time during the four-week period ending on 10 May 2014.[246] Wells Fargo analyst Bonnie Herzog attributes this decline to a shift in consumers' behavior, buying more specialized devices or what she calls "vapor/tank/mods (VTMs)" that are not tracked by Nielsen.[246] Wells Fargo estimated that VTMs accounted for 57% of the 3.5 billion dollar market in the US for vapor products in 2015." (my emphasis)
Also, her estimates for the growth of vaping in general hasn't decreased, which if she meant the 87% to represent all vaping products, rather than just cigalikes/ecigs, I wouldn't think her estimates on growth would be so enthusiastic :- )
"Speaking at Tobacco Plus Expo 2017, the Wells Fargo analyst explained that in the approximately $900-billion global tobacco market in retail sales, vapor accounts for just 1 percent. The United States tops the list of global markets. "The U.S. is the largest market and the most lucrative opportunity," stated Herzog.
Consumer sentiment remains lukewarm at best, though, and retailers are weary of having "dead inventory" on their shelves under the black cloud of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) final deeming rule and the regulations to come.
That being said, Herzog remains bullish on vapor. She predicts that by the end of 2017, the vapor industry will grow to $4.4 billion in retail sales. She also believes retail sales of vapor and RRPs (Reduced-Risk Products) could eclipse $10 billion in retail sales by 2020."
Navigating Today's Winding Tobacco Landscape
I stand by my statements in my post here:
Read this! - Is vaping sticky?
...that Bonnie Herzog differentiates between "e-cigs" and VTMs (tanks and mods). It may not be completely clear, in that the "ecig consumers" comment was Oliver's, not Herzog's - but I quoted Herzog's directly - ie: "ecig users". Herzog's comment was in the 'ecig user' form. And the 87% stat would seem to me to fit the ecig user of today - someone in transition and a dual user, who still smokes, but does not represent the Mod/Tank user of today. From wiki:
"In the US, tobacco producers have a significant share of the e-cigarette market.[59][244] As of 2015[update], 80% of all e-cigarette sales in convenience stores in the U.S. were products made by tobacco companies.[245] "
[That 80% is close to the 87% stated and the products made by tobacco companies are still mostly, (with exceptions), ecigs, as Herzog understands the term. ] continuing....
"According to Nielsen Holdings, convenience store e-cigarette sales in the US went down for the first time during the four-week period ending on 10 May 2014.[246] Wells Fargo analyst Bonnie Herzog attributes this decline to a shift in consumers' behavior, buying more specialized devices or what she calls "vapor/tank/mods (VTMs)" that are not tracked by Nielsen.[246] Wells Fargo estimated that VTMs accounted for 57% of the 3.5 billion dollar market in the US for vapor products in 2015." (my emphasis)
Also, her estimates for the growth of vaping in general hasn't decreased, which if she meant the 87% to represent all vaping products, rather than just cigalikes/ecigs, I wouldn't think her estimates on growth would be so enthusiastic :- )
"Speaking at Tobacco Plus Expo 2017, the Wells Fargo analyst explained that in the approximately $900-billion global tobacco market in retail sales, vapor accounts for just 1 percent. The United States tops the list of global markets. "The U.S. is the largest market and the most lucrative opportunity," stated Herzog.
Consumer sentiment remains lukewarm at best, though, and retailers are weary of having "dead inventory" on their shelves under the black cloud of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) final deeming rule and the regulations to come.
That being said, Herzog remains bullish on vapor. She predicts that by the end of 2017, the vapor industry will grow to $4.4 billion in retail sales. She also believes retail sales of vapor and RRPs (Reduced-Risk Products) could eclipse $10 billion in retail sales by 2020."
Navigating Today's Winding Tobacco Landscape
Definitely agree with the longevity and ease of use with vapes such as pod systems like juul. My experience as a new vapor in 2011 was frustrating to say the least, until i found Youtube and a good vape shop. I think those pod systems can keep ex smokers in the game long enough to make the transition on the first go. My journey wasn't as smooth a transition as it took a few times back and forth until I'd found the right setup which was itaste with nautilus tank system.
Wow, would have never thought that this is your first post. You write very well, not to mention some funny (funny: hah hah, not funny wierd) as well. Love your attitude. It sounds as though your son-in-law is in the business for a noble reason as well as to make money. Great to hear.
I have had a person come up to me and tell me that they "almost died from using those things" GAH! With the reporting that would have come out from such an event as they explained, it would have made at least local, if not national news. Not sure if this was to provoke a fight (there WAS alcohol involved) or not but I did want to be rude. It would have done no good so I just said that I was sorry to hear that and said that she must have received some faulty directions. SIGH... Wish I had thought of a non-violent but satisfying way to handle this. I just wanted to tell her to stop talking about stuff she didn't have accurate info on but I could smell the booze....
Hi Im kristi, new to vaping, trying to quit smoking. Only thing i l kn9w about sticky vaping is me missng the tank when refilling my eroll
Thats 8nteresting. Ive been vaping and smokig for 2 days now. The vaping is making me cough ALOT(pg 70%) Hangsen-Caterpillar and my cigarettes have lost all throat hit and flavor after tasting my ecig! So im stuck right this minute. Feel sick
It seems pretty sticky to me!
I didn't know much about vaping when I started (still don't, really). I picked up a mod not to quit but just so I wouldn't have to get up and go outside all the time when I'm watching TV or on the computer or whatever. I was smoking a lot and it was annoying, running in and out all the time. Because I hate to have the smell in my place.
Anyway, about six weeks later I went on a trip and forgot to bring cigarettes - I was paying less and less attention to them - but I did remember my mod. It was a bit awkward for the first half a day or so, but after about eight hours, I was just like .... nothing wrong with this! I'm fine! I got home, smoked one cig and threw the rest of the pack out and it was over, just like that, no real effort.
Except one time I had a really messed up coil and I was dreaming of cigarrettes all that week, there has been no struggle at all really. And I wasn't even trying to quit. That was just a free bonus.
Here is the funny part, I got so used to running outside that I have a constant urge to do it anyway still, even though the vape doesn't leave a stink. So it did not accomplish what I got it for. But I'm not complaining.
What I have is not too technical or anything. You fill it up, press a button to go ... pretty simple ... as simple as a lighter ... maybe the older stuff was less user-friendly.
I didn't know much about vaping when I started (still don't, really). I picked up a mod not to quit but just so I wouldn't have to get up and go outside all the time when I'm watching TV or on the computer or whatever. I was smoking a lot and it was annoying, running in and out all the time. Because I hate to have the smell in my place.
Anyway, about six weeks later I went on a trip and forgot to bring cigarettes - I was paying less and less attention to them - but I did remember my mod. It was a bit awkward for the first half a day or so, but after about eight hours, I was just like .... nothing wrong with this! I'm fine! I got home, smoked one cig and threw the rest of the pack out and it was over, just like that, no real effort.
Except one time I had a really messed up coil and I was dreaming of cigarrettes all that week, there has been no struggle at all really. And I wasn't even trying to quit. That was just a free bonus.
Here is the funny part, I got so used to running outside that I have a constant urge to do it anyway still, even though the vape doesn't leave a stink. So it did not accomplish what I got it for. But I'm not complaining.
What I have is not too technical or anything. You fill it up, press a button to go ... pretty simple ... as simple as a lighter ... maybe the older stuff was less user-friendly.
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Needed some info to show a friend about vaping, alot of great info..thanks.
Great story & echos mine. After 54 years smoking I am happy again. In 8 months I have gone from 18mg down to 4mg. This seems to be my happy spot. Like you I have convinced 2 of my son's to join me & am working on my sister.
Great post & explains something..I was in Montreal recently staying on the South Shore. I needed some extra supplies so went looking for a store. This explains the BIG BLANK WALL in front of the shop. Felt like I should knock & say Bob sent me..very odd
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