New Calculator to try

[Hoggy]

Ah yeah, It's no problem when I use a VG/PG mix with nicotine already in it. I've used Liquid Barns 3% 70/30 alot and it's easy. You just set the levels in the nicotine and it's done. The problem I have is that I bought a gallon of 60/40 VG/PG with 0 Nic. Hadn't even thought about it before hand. I am mixing it with 48mg Nic in 100% PG. Want around 3mg nicotine and the pg/vg ratio doesnt matter. it's lowered by the flavoring anyway.

Would be a nice feature. Maybe I'll have to mix the PG/VG with the nic in 500 ml batches by eye.. Dunno

ok.. In that case, since you don't care about the ending pg/vg ratio, one way to do it is:

Make/set a nicotine ingredient to 48mg/ml in 100 pg.

Then make a recipe called, say "3mg Base - Recipe", and use that 48mg nicotine ingredient. Set the target nicotine to 3mg (or set it slightly above if you want to account for adding an average amount of total flavoring percentage you tend to use). Set the "Amount to make" to the amount you want to make of the ending 3mg Base.

Then you could handle the pg/vg settings a couple ways here:

1. Simply set either the pg or vg ("pg" might be easiest I think, since your nic is 100pg) ingredient to 100% - knowing that it is actually your gallon of 60/40 0-nic.
2. If you want to keep track of your inventory of both ingredients.. Create a separate, say 'PG' ingredient set to PG under the Ingredient type. You could name it like "60/40 Blend". In the "notes" area, you could remind yourself that this is actually the gallon of 60/40, and not straight PG. Once you click "make recipe", it will subtract the amounts used of both ingredients for your ending 3mg Base.

Then you create a separate nicotine ingredient called, say "3mg Base - Ingredient", putting in the amount you just made in the inventory slot. I don't even think you'll get any warning thrown up to this point, if you've used the 'straight 100% PG' route.

Then to use that 3mg Base in a [flavored] recipe, you can do what I was mentioning earlier.. Set your recipe to use that new ending nicotine ingredient, "3mg Base - Ingredient". Then set the recipe's target nicotine to 3mg. Now when you click "Make Recipe" here, it will only subtract from inventory, the amount of the "3mg Base - Ingredient" that you made previously, along with your flavorings.

As I say, this WILL throw warnings in the recipe.. But all you'll see is the single total amount under the nic ingredient - along with how much of each flavoring to add. Just ignore the warnings [about pg/vg & nicotine levels], as what you're doing here is bending this calculator to suit your every desire, will, and commandments. ​

Well, that could be one way to handle it (the way I would do it, for myself). Hopefully my thinking was clear enough through this to explain it correctly.. I can often have issues in that department.

 

[Jimmymac]

Ah I got it now

Nicotine 48mg 100% PG
Recipe 100% PG
Set recipe for 3% Nicotine
(Calculator will ask me to add ALOT of PG to dilute the Nic down to 3%)
I just use the 40/60 VG/PG instead of the PG that the recipe is asking for.

I think that's what you said lol

 

[Hoggy]

Ah I got it now

Nicotine 48mg 100% PG
Recipe 100% PG
Set recipe for 3% Nicotine
(Calculator will ask me to add ALOT of PG to dilute the Nic down to 3%)
I just use the 40/60 VG/PG instead of the PG that the recipe is asking for.

I think that's what you said lol

And in return, I think that's about right - if you don't care about keeping track of the non-flavorings, AND don't want to bother with making the pre-made 3mg base beforehand. Though I think your above route will accurately reach your 3mg target, as opposed to pre-making the mixed base - if my thinking is correct, here. ... And I don't think it will throw warnings here, either.
(EDIT: Wait.. Maybe it will still keep track of your non-flavorings, if you make the separate PG ingredient [which is actually your 40/60 blend].. Ugh! Here's where having a cognitive disability really sucks donkey balls. )

I swear it all makes sense in my head.. Getting it out correctly is another issue altogether.

 

[IDJoel]

To me it seems a simple issue of working with the known/fixed percentages:
1.) If @Jimmymac knows he wants 3mg/mL nic, then (3÷48=0.0625) 6.25% of his 48mg/mL PG nic base will always provide 3mg/mL. This is the first "known."
2.) The flavor concentrates make up the other "knowns." (These will vary as dictated by the recipe).
3.) Add up all known percentages.
4.) Subtract that sum from 100% (total volume). That remainder, is the amount of PG/VG mix, that will be used to make up the volume for the rest of the batch.
5.) Plug the numbers into the recipe.
6.) Use "Edit>Adjust recipe to max PG or VG" (not sure it matters which one).
Done.

Nic base is set up/handled as any normal nic is.
The PG/VG blend is set up as a flavor. (Be sure to set the PG and VG percentages correctly)
All ingredients, and costs, can be accurately tracked.

Here is a practical example:
I want to make a 100mL batch of a single flavor recipe at 10% flavoring, and 3mg/mL nic.
1.) 6.25% 48mg/mL PG nic.
2.) 10% flavoring.
3.) 6.25% + 10% = 16.25% (flavor(s) and nic)
4.) 100% - 16.25% = 83.75% (remaining amount available for PG/VG blend)
5.)Plug the numbers into the recipe:

(click image to enlarge)
6.) Adjust for max PG (or VG):

Finished recipe:

I think(?) the magic is to get the ingredient percentages (nic, flavors, and PG/VG blend) to equal 100%. Then, the calculator has no "room" to be able to add additional PG or VG.

 

[Hoggy]

To me it seems a simple issue of working with the known/fixed percentages:
1.) If @Jimmymac knows he wants 3mg/mL nic, then (3÷48=0.0625) 6.25% of his 48mg/mL PG nic base will always provide 3mg/mL. This is the first "known."
2.) The flavor concentrates make up the other "knowns." (These will vary as dictated by the recipe).
3.) Add up all known percentages.
4.) Subtract that sum from 100% (total volume). That remainder, is the amount of PG/VG mix, that will be used to make up the volume for the rest of the batch.
5.) Plug the numbers into the recipe.
6.) Use "Edit>Adjust recipe to max PG or VG" (not sure it matters which one).
Done.

Nic base is set up/handled as any normal nic is.
The PG/VG blend is set up as a flavor. (Be sure to set the PG and VG percentages correctly)
All ingredients, and costs, can be accurately tracked.

Here is a practical example:
I want to make a 100mL batch of a single flavor recipe at 10% flavoring, and 3mg/mL nic.
1.) 6.25% 48mg/mL PG nic.
2.) 10% flavoring.
3.) 6.25% + 10% = 16.25% (flavor(s) and nic)
4.) 100% - 16.25% = 83.75% (remaining amount available for PG/VG blend)
5.)Plug the numbers into the recipe:
6.) Adjust for max PG (or VG):

But all that seems to defeat the purpose of using a juice calculator to begin with. I was once in all advanced-placement math & science classes, but now I'm lucky if I can put 2+2 together in a timely fashion - so all that is kinda over my head starting at the first #1.

But.. Many ways to skin the cat. Whichever way works best for someone is the right way.

EDIT: I now think I see what you're aiming for here.. And if my understanding is correct, it seems one way to do it without doing any math is to just juggle the pg-vg 'flavor' ingredient up and down until all the warnings go away. I can't remember for-sure, but I do think I might have done that for a bit when I first got into pre-mixed nic bases - but quickly got tired of doing the juggling (or math--ish) for each and every recipe that used the base. ... And now that every mix at or under 30ml uses one of my pre-mix nic bases, it would quickly become a real PITA in short order.

 

[IDJoel]

But all that seems to defeat the purpose of using a juice calculator to begin with.

Agreed!

it would quickly become a real PITA in short order.

And agreed again!

I personally don't use unflavored bases; so I haven't really given it any thought before now. I yield to those of you who do.

 

[Hoggy]

I personally don't use unflavored bases; so I haven't really given it any thought before now. I yield to those of you who do.

Hmm.. Perhaps I might have to copy those posts of mine and store them in a 'permanent' group within my clipboard manager, "Ditto".

I'd really hate to have to redo them from scratch.. And the question of using pre-mixed bases does seem to come up with some regularity. And that method does work for no-effort base usage with [of course, generalized] inventory tracking.

However, you did get me thinking more critically of the base ratios I currently make. I like to shoot for the ending whereabouts of either 80pg/20vg or 70pg/30vg. And since I tend keep my flavoring average to 10% or less (usually in pg), I really ought be making my bases in 70pg/30vg and 60pg/40vg - to better reach those ending targets. So I think I need to be shifting down a notch on the base pg level, if my thinking is clear enough on this aspect.

 

[Dunder Mifflin]

Wayne from Diy or Die did a show on this calculator. He likes it cause it tracks inventory. He is having a little trouble figuring out some stuff. Very interesting. Oh, and Thank you all for your hard work on this.

 

[IDJoel]

He is having a little trouble figuring out some stuff.

W o w...! Wayne does some really good stuff; but this is not one of them. I would not be blaming "the software" when I have never USED the software, as Wayne obviously hasn't. I have (so far) watched the first 27 minutes, and EVERY issue he has (of what I have watched), can be overcome with a little experience and reading/using the Help file. Watching him try to use this calc, is like watching me trying to use a 3D printer; I have never even seen one, however I am confident I could learn to use one, but it would take some time and practice. I hope viewers of Wayne's video, will take this into consideration, when watching it.

I will acknowledge that it is not the most intuitive calculator available. I mean the ability to do what he is trying to do; jump right in and have everything work exactly how he thinks it ought to work. Juice Calculator does take a little time and effort to use its more advanced features.

I hope Wayne will stop by with any questions he continues to have.

 

[Fozzy71]

I have (so far) watched the first 27 minutes,

u did better than me, I couldn't watch more than 9 minutes after seeing his cursor hover on the ingredient editor for 30 seconds while he took a vape then move on to some other thing that didn't do what he wanted.

 

[Hoggy]

He is having a little trouble figuring out some stuff.

I wanted so badly to reach in there and tell him the feature he was looking for was in the Edit menu -> Find and Replace Ingredients. If I caught it live, I would have definitely said that in the chat section.

Yes, it would be nice if he learned the calculator(s) a bit before suggesting a calc with a required entry fee. People that just start getting deeper into mixing, and moving beyond EJuiceMeUp's extremely limited basic capabilities that quickly become a major PITA may not want to spend the $15 right away - just to simply track their inventory. His mess with the flavor names and manufacturers is an unfortunate situation resulting from EJMU's simpler and all-manual usage.

Juice grinder could be more intuitive, but he would still have to manually go through ALL his flavorings. At least with Juice Calc (and maybe Juice Grinder too, don't know), it was already in there - albeit a mess due to EJuiceMeUp's simplicity. Hopefully he comes by and asks some questions.

I am curious why he said to leave all ingredient weights to 1mg/ml, though.

 

[IDJoel]

I couldn't leave it alone; I posted a comment on the YouTube thread. I am probably going to regret that!

I am curious why he said to leave all ingredient weights to 1mg/ml, though.

Simply for conformity i would guess. Some/many/most(?) DIYers don't set the values to adjusted (more precise?) specific gravities; either because they don't know where to find the info, or are too lazy to to get them, and enter them into the calculator.

So, if you share a recipe and are calling all flavors 1mg/mL, and I mix it as 1mg/mL; neither of us may not be mixing precisely the stated value, but at least we are mixing the same result. If not, each recipe posted would have to define what specific gravities were being used, so both the author, and mixers were using the same values. I don't see anyone being willing to do that.

As a visual: say I make a recipe with one ingredient used at 10%. We both make a 30mL batch. I have JC set up as it weighing 1.00mg/mL; so JC tells me to add 3mg. You have the same ingredient set up at its correct weight of 1.23mg/mL; so JC is going to tell you to add 3.69mg. That's 23% more than I put in. Will it make a noticeable difference? Maybe yes, maybe no; I imagine it would depend a lot on what flavor is being used. Will it be completely unvapeable? Probably not. Is it the same as what I made? Certainly not.

As long as the apparent general consensus "seems" to be 1mg/mL for flavors across the board, that is what I will stick to (`cause I'm lazy too!). For those that like the "preciseness" of using actual available data; I would not try to talk them out of it. Especially because many of us have to tweak others' recipes to suit our own palate anyway; so I am not going to loose any sleep over it.

This is kind of the same reason I stopped looking at recipes that were created by counting drops. There are just too many variables that aren't accounted for... and that doesn't work for my OCD.

Though, now that I am thinking about it, if the author uses volume to formulate the recipe, the mixer that is using the precise specific gravity will actually be closer . Hummmm......

See, you can make an argument, either way!

 

[Hoggy]

This is kind of the same reason I stopped looking at recipes that were created by counting drops. There are just too many variables that aren't accounted for... and that doesn't work for my OCD.

UGH! Those are the worst! I also can't take a recipe seriously if they're stating drops. I've counted how many drops are in some standard bottles I use - for measuring additives like sucralose, ethyl maltol, koolada, vanillin, and whatnot.. One type was 38 drops/ml, and the other type was 80 drops/ml! Eye-droppers were too varied, around 20-25 per ml, so I don't use those -- besides, they're more of a pain to clean than my glass syringes, with a bigger issue being the rubber that could get eaten-through (or stretched by repeated removals). Of course I put those bottle drop values in Juice Calc, since it's much easier to deal with drops for additives IMO. But I would never do any other ingredients that way.

I ended up putting in specific gravities for all the ingredients that showed them on ELR, since I copy that info along with the percentages, anyways - and put that in the notes section of each ingredient. Although I rarely mix by weight since most of my flavors aren't in dropper bottles to begin with. Ah well.. It's not like any recipes I make are good enough yet to share.
(Gotta love all those 30-100% idiots on ELR to throw off all the values. )

=========

One thing I agreed with Wayne about: I don't want the only copies of my bad recipes to be in the cloud. I'd rather have control of backing all that up myself. (Well - bad recipes, for me - with Wayne I'm sure they're mostly good. )

 

[Hoggy]

I couldn't leave it alone; I posted a comment on the YouTube thread. I am probably going to regret that!

I saw it.. It wasn't bad at all. You shouldn't be worried about anything you said.

 

[reklaw732]

@IDJoel @Hoggy I agree it was prob frustrating of a vid to watch, prob gonna redo it. But I think it did a good job highlighting the UI experience between some other calcs. In the video I explain the UI experience definitely feels like the programmer made it which I'm sure many will agree. That being said its probably the best free calc source available, I personally just think it needs to be a bit more streamlined. For example, adding ingredients isn't an advanced feature, yet the process seems a bit unnecessarily convoluted.

Also, @Hoggy you wanna keep 1ml/1ml for flavorings because its standard across recipes. You can change your base densities, but I don't recommend changing flavorings. It may be minute in small 30ml bottles, but when you scale those recipes up the disparity can be big.

 

[Hoggy]

In the video I explain the UI experience definitely feels like the programmer made it which I'm sure many will agree. That being said its probably the best free calc source available, I personally just think it needs to be a bit more streamlined. For example, adding ingredients isn't an advanced feature, yet the process seems a bit unnecessarily convoluted.

Totally agree, including the last part about adding ingredients. One can tell it was pieced together as more and more features were added. Like take that field called "Folder" under the Ingredients that you were wondering about - it's the exact same thing that's called [Sort Ingredients By] "Categories" within the options/preferences.. That one had me confounded for a good while. He did say he wasn't a UI expert.

Another thing to note is that inventory isn't adjusted until you click make recipe, or have some of the options set to do it when printing. I think more recently added was the Adjust Inventory, or at least subsections of that dialog - I forget exactly.
Yet another thing is that steeping time only starts counting when Make Recipe (or printing, if set) is clicked. The only other way to add steeping times without adjusting inventory is by going into the tools menu -> Hot Key Options, and setting a hotkey for it. But another nice feature when using the hotkey is that you can set the steeping-time box to, say 7days - hit the hotkey, set the box for 14 days - and hit the hotkey again, etc.. For if you want to check a mix weekly or whatnot.

However, as you found out in the video, there can be buggy areas. IIRC, I think one of them will often occur on this machine after using the find and replace ingredients in the edit menu. So be sure to save and exit after using that feature (and make sure to set the auto-backups within the Options) - and maybe even at a few points along the way if you're doing a lot of them, just to make sure you won't lose a lot of work if/when it happens. Another known thing that can be buggy, but only for some people, is when using the above mentioned 'sort ingredients by Category (aka 'folder') - and I happen to be one of those that's affected, so I need to keep the feature off. Another oddity I notice on my machine, is that every once in a while it seems an exception might occur when changing the current recipe view/selection before the ingredients have all displayed completely. ..... Basically, to me it just feels like there are problems with race-conditions going on between selecting and displaying - but don't quote me on that. And of course, that's only my experience on this particular machine. Others may not encounter those at all.

But once you finally manage to get all your ingredients wrangled in, it really is just smooth sailing from that point. Though like any database centric program like this or Lightroom, the key is backup, backup, and backup OFTEN.

If you have any other nagging questions (IIRC, some may evade the help text that's included), just let loose here.. There is a learning curve to this one.

Nice to see ya here, btw.

 

[IDJoel]

Thanks for stopping by @reklaw732,
I respect all that you do for the vaping community; and have learned a lot from your "newb" tutorials. Thank you!

I agree it was prob frustrating of a vid to watch, prob gonna redo it.

Please know, I am 55 years old, and my mind is going at about 25% of the speed yours seems to be running at. I also don't watch "live" casting much, so the long pauses (while you read comments, and formulate your thoughts) are extremely distracting to me. I imagine that those who are more familiar with this media are perfectly fine with it.

What I do take issue with, is that you are "comparing" products you know nothing about. It is obvious that this was your first exposure to BOTH Juice Calculator, and Juice Grinder. Had you said this clip was going to be "first impressions," or something of the equivalent, I feel that would have been much more accurate.

However (and my opinion only), if you want to do a real comparison, you need to invest a little time, and effort, in learning the basics of the product, before you go to air.

In my mind, to have a positive initial experience with Juice Calculator, one needs to read the "Getting Started" section of the hep file. It explains how to set the calculator up to your preferences, and how and where to find and input data. If you find the need to read directions first is a "ding" against recommending; that would be a fair statement to make. But to say the programming is jacked and is unnecissarily clumsy (not your words; I am paraphrasing from a lousy memory), simply because you have not read the directions, I think is unfair.

But I think it did a good job highlighting the UI experience between some other calcs.

I respectfully disagree. Again; because you knew nothing of either program before you broadcast.

Would you say you were doing a "good job" if you went live to do a flavor review, and just dumped a splash of a concentrate you have never seen before into some base, and then pronounced it as "bad?" No; you would explain to me all the time and effort it takes,t to experience, learn about, and use a new concentrate.

I see no reason why you should expect to do any less from a more advanced calculator.

Please don't misunderstand me; I do not believe that Juice Calculator is going to be the right choice for everyone, and it may not be the right choice for you. That is fine; and I respect that. And if you said that in a video; I would say that is a fair comment.

"I don't want to read instructions to use" is a valid criteria (I don't happen to share it; but that may be what makes JC right for me, and not right for you... and I accept that); but then say that and move on. Don't spend 5 minutes clicking an various buttons you don't understand, and pronounce it "complicated." Also, don't blame the program for not being able to decyfer the mess that you imported. At one point I thought you did well to take ownership by acknowledging you did a poor job (initially) inputting ingredients in E-JuiceMeUp, and were now reaping the consequences. But then, a short time later, you seemed to be right back grumping about how the Juice Calculator was handling your imported data.

I explain the UI experience definitely feels like the programmer made it which I'm sure many will agree.

You are absolutely correct. @HotRod19579 is, by profession, a programmer. This (JC) has been a pure labor of love (completely free) done above, and beyond his regular full-time job, and he would be the first to acknowledge, GUI is not his forte. Add to that (as I think Hoggy has already mentioned) that this has been an on-going collaboration (basically "creation by committee"). In the past, HotRod would issue weekly (or more frequent) updates... mostly spurred by user requests, and it has morphed into what it is today.

He understands his shortcomings, and has tried to offset it with some of the most detailed documentation, I have come across... if a person will use it.

That being said its probably the best free calc source available, I personally just think it needs to be a bit more streamlined.

That is a fair statement. Unfortunately no one has stepped forward to help HR with design.

For example, adding ingredients isn't an advanced feature, yet the process seems a bit unnecessarily convoluted.

Only because you haven't (wont?) read the documentation. Yes; it may not be particularly intuitive, when you just fire it up and start clicking buttons. However, if you are willing to spend 15 and read, it becomes pretty easy, and you will never have to read it again.

It may be minute in small 30ml bottles, but when you scale those recipes up the disparity can be big.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. the ratio (percentage) is constant; regardless of whether I am making 1mL or 1,000mL. So the impact of an ingredient, or an error with an ingredient, will have the same impact regardless of how much is made. Is that not correct?

 

[Hoggy]

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. the ratio (percentage) is constant; regardless of whether I am making 1mL or 1,000mL. So the impact of an ingredient, or an error with an ingredient, will have the same impact regardless of how much is made. Is that not correct?

I think this is exactly what you were alluding to earlier.. If 1gm/ml is used across the board by everybody, then if people are mixing by weight - and tuning their recipe specifics according to weight percentages only (as in disregarding ml's altogether) - then 1g is going to be 1g, no matter what the altitude and temperature is where you are. As said, it may make it easier when sharing recipes - and scaling them up.
It's possible for the difference to effect even a home user, I think, considering I have once a made a default/fallback/backup-type-vape batch of 480ml. Although lately I have WAY too many 'tester' batches all over the place as I try to step up my game, so have no need to make 'backup' batches. ... So many bottles around I can't even reach my laptop's keyboard or graphics tablet easily - I kind of need to use a mini bluetooth keyboard and pen mouse on my lap in order to use the damn computer. I keep meaning to ask somewhere what people do about their invasion-of-the-bottles situation.

About Juice Calc's help dialog though, it does seem to have grown since I was learning the program. I remember having to read though all this threads messages to figure out what some of options/features were for.

 

[IDJoel]

As said, it may make it easier when sharing recipes - and scaling them up.

Yes; that was what I was trying to convey in my previous post to you. I was questioning @reklaw732's statement:

It may be minute in small 30ml bottles, but when you scale those recipes up the disparity can be big.

because, as I read it (and I could be totally wrong; it certainly wouldn't be the first time), it sounded like he was say the discrepancy (between using a default value of 1mg/mL vs. true specific gravity for a given ingredient) would be tolerable in small batch sizes, but would get increasingly more noticeable as the batch size increased.

If so; that is wrong. The difference is constant (or static) and not exponetial (or dynamic); as it can be expressed as a ratio or percentage. That being the case, a 1%, or 5%, or even 50% difference, will have no more and no less, influence on the result of a recipe... regardless of whether I am making a 5mL batch, or a 5L batch. The impact will be the same; because the ratios remain the same. That 50% difference is going to taste just as different in the 5mL mix as it tastes in the 5L mix. (Otherwise, how would doing small test batches, give us any useful feedback)

About Juice Calc's help dialog though, it does seem to have grown since I was learning the program. I remember having to read though all this thread's messages to figure out what some of options/features were for.

I know! Even though HotRod hasn't given us an update in close to a year; I am still finding new (to me) features. During Wayne's video, he opened the "Current Inventory" tab, and I swear I have never seen it before. I had to pause the tape, and open JC, to see what he had done!

And you are right about the documentation; it is pretty thorough (some of the most complete I have ever seen; especially in freeware!). He can get a bit over-descriptive; but that doesn't offend a "gabby-guss" like me<Shocker!>. I would much rather have too much information; than be left with a bunch of head-scratching questions. Come to think about it; I don't think I have ever seen a question in this thread, that started out: "I read <fill in the blank> in the help file, and I don't understand..."

All you have to do, is look at his update notes. The "average programmer" would write:

• fixed bugs
• added features

But HotRod explains:

• Bug creating "this" outcome fixed
• Added feature "A", at so-and-so's request. This is what it does; and this is how it us used.
• Added feature "B", in response to multiple requests. This is what it does; and this is how it us used.

HR always seems to go above and beyond; especially for something he expects no financial compensation for. I think, this is why I seem to be constantly referring to it, as his "labor of love." Because if it "ain't love;" I have know idea what has been driving him. I tip my hat to him; every time I fire it up.

 

[Hoggy]

Ah.. Didn't really think of it that way.. And maybe Wayne didn't, either.

Out of curiosity, though. In the comments on YT, you mention using this calc, then switching to Juice Grinder, and then back to this.... What made you switch each time, and end up landing on Juice Calc?

@reklaw732 : I guess it could also depend on what your end goal would be, on deciding which to use. If it's for showing mixers how to up their game on mixing, then maybe you want to learn Juice Calc - since that will be a lot more accessible to a wider audience. By steering mixers towards using a calc like this, you could help prevent others from landing in the exact same situation you're now in, with the mess due to the part that makes EJMU such a PITA to use: Having to always manually input their flavors, thereby necessitating a 'shorthand' for the names. (And that's also why I never really went much beyond 1-or-2 ingredient mixes. It wasn't until this calc that I started venturing further. Although I'm still nowhere near the level of you or Fresh03. )

I also think Juice Grinder is deceptively advertised as 'freeware' when, in fact, one has to pay to unlock features that a home mixer could easily use.. Both inventory tracking, as well as batches of more than 150ml. That just smacks of shadiness, IMHO. It should be called CrippleWare, but certainly NOT Freeware. Maybe Shareware at best, but even that could be rather generous. I was going to try it out again, but saw those limitations and decided not to reinstall it after all.. (I know I installed it before, but I think I decided against it due to those limitations and then uninstalled it.) .... On top of noticing this time around, that it was being advertised as "freeware" - that part just really ...... me off to tell ya the truth. Really deceptive.