Nicotine for sale?

[ZambucaLu]

I just copied this from a post by ccure: ..............

Then I looked further and found this: ......................

And this: ...................

I know some members have been quite interested in nicotine and tobacco flavorings. Just wondered if you've seen anything like this and if so, what do you think of it? Has anyone actually tried it? Looks like this stuff is really expensive once you include hazard shipping.

I'd love to hear the "pros'" take on this

Lu

 

[bribri]

I love the idea of getting diluted nicotine in the USA for my ecig... However I quite contacting people looking for it after tropical bob informed me someone on here got a visit from US homeland security after too many such inquiries.

 

[radiokaos]

Another thing to consider is that by volume some of this stuff is very lethal. We are not talking 3% by volume but 40%. So one ml could have as much as 400 MG's of nicotine per ML. Mixing that stuff would be crazy unless you have a real lab with the right protective gear.

 

[ccure]

I just copied this from a post by ccure: .........

I know some members have been quite interested in nicotine and tobacco flavorings. Just wondered if you've seen anything like this and if so, what do you think of it? Has anyone actually tried it? Looks like this stuff is really expensive once you include hazard shipping.

I'd love to hear the "pros'" take on this

Lu

Sambucalu:

Thank you for the credit

Ok, It is not that expensive if you think that 100 ml of pure Nic ($147) will give you a final product of let say 10 liters of 10mg e-liquid. Or 4 liters of 25mg.

So, if you look at it that way, it does not seems so expensive.

Again, I will not try to handle this without the proper safety measurements and equipment, but since there are people trying to "extract" Nicotine from tobacco, I think it will be safer for all of them to buy the Nicotine directly. At least they will know how much nicotine they are using on their e-liquid.

I WILL NOT RECOMMEND USING NICOTINE UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT ARE YOU DOING!

 

[yvilla]

I had another thought about this. I researched nicotine sources a while ago as well, but as someone who would not be comfortable with handling pure nicotine, or even the 40% stuff probably, nor having the proper equipment, I just filed away the URLs to return to only in case of extreme circumstances in the future.

Then I remembered posts a while back about compounding pharmacies, and the fact that PG, VG and nicotine are all recognized and lawfully obtainable pharmaceutical products.

With a cooperative doctor, and I really believe many of our personal physicians who have been trying to get us to quit smoking for years and who have been reported as applauding our use of ecigs might consider this - why couldn't many of us get a prescription for use at a compounding pharmacy if the very worst comes to pass and eliquid becomes unavailable here in the US?

I looked up compounding pharmacies in my area and found one not far away. This is an example of one:

The Pharmacy Shop

I bet there's an excellent chance my doctor would write me a prescription for a PG solution containing 3.6 or 2.4% nicotine, if the only other alternative was that I'd return to smoking.

What do you think?

 

[strayling]

I think that if some physicians are willing to prescribe medical marijuana then some will probably be cool with nicotine. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Jim Davis]

I looked up compounding pharmacies in my area and found one not far away. This is an example of one:

The Pharmacy Shop

I bet there's an excellent chance my doctor would write me a prescription for a PG solution containing 3.6 or 2.4% nicotine, if the only other alternative was that I'd return to smoking.

What do you think?

I think you are a very wise person. A prescription never entered my mind. I think most doctors would go along with it to keep a person away from tobacco. I'm going to file this, in case a total ban goes through.

Cheers;
jd

 

[radiokaos]

I had another thought about this. I researched nicotine sources a while ago as well, but as someone who would not be comfortable with handling pure nicotine, or even the 40% stuff probably, nor having the proper equipment, I just filed away the URLs to return to only in case of extreme circumstances in the future.

Then I remembered posts a while back about compounding pharmacies, and the fact that PG, VG and nicotine are all recognized and lawfully obtainable pharmaceutical products.

With a cooperative doctor, and I really believe many of our personal physicians who have been trying to get us to quit smoking for years and who have been reported as applauding our use of ecigs might consider this - why couldn't many of us get a prescription for use at a compounding pharmacy if the very worst comes to pass and eliquid becomes unavailable here in the US?

I looked up compounding pharmacies in my area and found one not far away. This is an example of one:

The Pharmacy Shop

I bet there's an excellent chance my doctor would write me a prescription for a PG solution containing 3.6 or 2.4% nicotine, if the only other alternative was that I'd return to smoking.

What do you think?

I have brought this topic up in the past and it seems like no one wanted to listen. The major hurdle you will have is getting a compound pharmacy to fill the script. Most will not hand out a 10ml bottle of 36 mg / ml mix. Also if you are lucky to find a compounding pharmacy they will likely have some stringent requirements (dosage, strength, and liquid), and yes we will need a script which is easy to obtain. Educating our doctors will be another issue as well. The rub is that the FDA can come down these said pharmacies and say hey "we did not approve for nicotine to be vaporized". However at the rate they are going it would take a year for the FDA to come down on the compounding pharms.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/13686-more-crap-fda-2.html#post209223

 

[breakfastchef]

Then I remembered posts a while back about compounding pharmacies, and the fact that PG, VG and nicotine are all recognized and lawfully obtainable pharmaceutical products.

Just as a side note, a compounding pharmacy (unregulated by the FDA) killed 21 polo horses in West Palm Beach, FL for a mistake they made in concentrations. The point being, you should have a background in chemistry and OSHA 'best practices' before dealing with straight nicotine fluids.

 

[Jim Davis]

Just as a side note, a compounding pharmacy (unregulated by the FDA) killed 21 polo horses in West Palm Beach, FL for a mistake they made in concentrations. The point being, you should have a background in chemistry and OSHA 'best practices' before dealing with straight nicotine fluids.

Well, we haven't come to that yet. The only thing I personally find at fault in your post is "(unregulated by the FDA)" Regulated or not, they screwed up. I have little faith in the FDA, myself. Google FDA Failures.

Cheers;
jd

 

[yvilla]

I have brought this topic up in the past and it seems like no one wanted to listen. The major hurdle you will have is getting a compound pharmacy to fill the script. Most will not hand out a 10ml bottle of 36 mg / ml mix. Also if you are lucky to find a compounding pharmacy they will likely have some stringent requirements (dosage, strength, and liquid), and yes we will need a script which is easy to obtain. Educating our doctors will be another issue as well. The rub is that the FDA can come down these said pharmacies and say hey "we did not approve for nicotine to be vaporized". However at the rate they are going it would take a year for the FDA to come down on the compounding pharms.

As far as I know, it's strictly what the doctor orders; the compounding pharmacy would not control the dosage, strength, etc. Rather, they would fill the prescription as written, just as ordinary pharmacies do. The only difference between the two types of pharmacies is that a compounding pharmacy will concoct an individually tailored medication that's not commericially available, from the raw materials.

The other key thing is that I believe there is already caselaw to the effect that the FDA cannot interfere, nor claim that something properly compounded per a valid prescription is an "unapproved" new drug, so long as the individual components of the scrip are all legally available pharmaceuticals. Apparently, they tried and were shot down on this question already. Obviously, I would do the research and arm myself with the actual legal holdings on this issue first if I ever had to approach my doctor, but for now I'm only relying on what I've seen so far.

Oh, and I wasn't thinking along the lines of a 10ml bottle. I'm talking a 90 day supply.

 

[Jim Davis]

Oh, and I wasn't thinking along the lines of a 10ml bottle. I'm talking a 90 day supply.

Yup - a 90 day supply that might be covered by health insurance.

 

[verhoeven]

Fantasies and Consequences could e-cigarettes be the one.

Interesting...comments?

Crack Nicotine: Anti-tobacco Fantasies and the Law of Unintended Consequences

 

[Kendra]

The compounding pharmacy idea was great but then I started thinking that it's doubtful any doctor who wanted to avoid a malpractice suit would write a nicotine prescription unless it's "approved" by the FDA for harm reduction or smoking cessation in which case we wouldn't need to go to a compounding pharmacy, we could go right to Walgreens. The physician would be opening himself up to huge lawsuits. I don't think you'd find one anywhere (even a friend) to agree to this.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

The compounding pharmacy idea was great but then I started thinking that it's doubtful any doctor who wanted to avoid a malpractice suit would write a nicotine prescription unless it's "approved" by the FDA for harm reduction or smoking cessation in which case we wouldn't need to go to a compounding pharmacy, we could go right to Walgreens. The physician would be opening himself up to huge lawsuits. I don't think you'd find one anywhere (even a friend) to agree to this.

Kendra--right on point--nobody is going to place themselves in that position and no one should ask them to----------Sun

 

[yvilla]

The compounding pharmacy idea was great but then I started thinking that it's doubtful any doctor who wanted to avoid a malpractice suit would write a nicotine prescription unless it's "approved" by the FDA for harm reduction or smoking cessation in which case we wouldn't need to go to a compounding pharmacy, we could go right to Walgreens. The physician would be opening himself up to huge lawsuits. I don't think you'd find one anywhere (even a friend) to agree to this.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. First, the whole point of contemplating my own personalized prescription is if, and only if, eliquid is no longer available in the US, even by importation of personal amounts directly by the consumer. Hopefully this is not going to occur, but it's a worst case failsafe idea.

Second, nicotine is already "approved" by the FDA - in patches, gum, lozenges and inhalers. Nicotine in a PG (or VG) solution is simply nicotine in a different carrier - no big stretch. Thus, I disagree that it would be so hard to find intelligent, thinking physicians who would be willing to provide an alternative to smoking for a patient via such a personalized prescription.

Third, that's the whole point of compounding pharmacies anyway - they make up compounds from otherwise legally available pharmaceutical raw materials, precisely in circumstances where the patient's needs can not be met by FDA approved and commercially available drugs. So long as they follow the federal regs governing compounding pharmacies, they are exempt from the FDA "new drug" approval process. (See, Medical Ctr Pharmacy vs. Mukasey (5th Cir. , July 18, 2008).

Medical Ctr Pharmacy vs. Mukasey - U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Cir. - July 18, 2008, Federal Circuits, Docket 06-51583 - vLex

So you see that following your reasoning to it's logical conclusion, there would be no compounding pharmacies, for no doctor would ever be so bold as to prescribe something not made available by the big Pharm gods and given the FDA blessing!

 

[RayJ1]

The logistics of a pharmacy making nicotine solutions for prescriptions may be difficult to pull off. They would need all sorts of fume hoods, respirators etc etc etc in dealing with concentrated liquids.

Most pharmacies can do little more than dispense pills or mix some basic topical ointments. I don't believe that any pharmacist would touch doing this stuff with a ten foot pole. This stuff is best mixed in a controlled environment such as a lab where there is less danger for spillage, cross-contamination etc etc etc.

 

[TropicalBob]

Absolutely true. And how many pharmacies would have pure, approved, medicinal quality nicotine available for compounding? The NRT products -- patches, gums, inhalers, etc -- all come with regulated dosage. No NRT that I know of is compounded in any pharmacy. Even given a willing doctor (and, yes, there are doctors who will say or prescribe anything), this does not seem feasible.

 

[Vapinginmyboots]

This is probably a stupid question, and something I am not stupid or brave enough to attempt, but is there any possible extraction/processing from a patch or the gum or something to make e-juice? Just a thought

 

[Misty]

This is probably a stupid question, and something I am not stupid or brave enough to attempt, but is there any possible extraction/processing from a patch or the gum or something to make e-juice? Just a thought

Good question, Vaping!..
it's already been discussed in this thread..
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...icotine-extraction-experiment.html#post172821
and this one..
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/7505-cheap-nicotine-pg.html