Provari's and Unprotected Batteries

[Sicarius]

Can't find anything definitive on the forum so new thread.

Question simply is :

The ProVari has battery protection built in and my charger is similar, so no chance of under or over voltage so ...

Any issues using unprotected batteries in the ProVari ?

If there is no plausable risk then I have 400 x 18650's to play with

 

[Sicarius]

Any thoughts on this ?

 

[Keeno]

The mod needs IMR technology do work as designed and to limit potential risks....no issues other than that but that's enough for me. I'm not a battery guru by no means but come to this conclusion from information I have read. Hopefully others chime in.

Some reading material from the ECF for ya I found on a quick search:


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...4690-protected-batteries-vs-imr-safety-3.html

You want definitive......use what the vendor recommends.....case closed.

 

[tearose50]

The mod needs IMR technology do work as designed and to limit potential risks....no issues other than that but that's enough for me. I'm not a battery guru by no means but come to this conclusion from information I have read. Hopefully others chime in.

Some reading material from the ECF for ya I found on a quick search:


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...4690-protected-batteries-vs-imr-safety-3.html

You want definitive......use what the vendor recommends.....case closed.

Provapis selling their own branded battery "ProVari Power" that is a 2500 mAh 3.7v Li-ion Protected 18650 that has the nipple on the top for the Provari as well as the IMRs.

It seemed to test well before it was introduced.

Provape had always recommended the AW IMR.

Now, I'm confused!

 

[TopCookie]

Sicarius...

The protection in the Provari is to protect the Provari... The protection on a protected Li-Ion battery is to protect the battery itself (this is an over simplification, but I'm sure you will see what I mean here).

So the Provari's circuitry won't help if an unprotected Li-Ion battery decides to have a fit... That's not a risk worth taking in my humble opinion...

 

[Frick]

Sicarius...

The protection in the Provari is to protect the Provari... The protection on a protected Li-Ion battery is to protect the battery itself (this is an over simplification, but I'm sure you will see what I mean here).

So the Provari's circuitry won't help if an unprotected Li-Ion battery decides to have a fit... That's not a risk worth taking in my humble opinion...

Just for clarity, the AW IMR batteries Provape recommends and sells are not protected batteries.

 

[TopCookie]

I appreciate that Frick, but am already aware of that... I was referring to un-protected Li-Ion batteries, as opposed to IMR batteries... and it is the inherent risk with the chemistry involved with normal Li-Ion batteries that poses the potential danger...

 

[Frick]

I appreciate that Frick, but am already aware of that... I was referring to un-protected Li-Ion batteries, as opposed to IMR batteries... and it is the inherent risk with the chemistry involved with normal Li-Ion batteries that poses the potential danger...

Ah, I see. I just wanted to clarify, as there seems to be a lot of confusion on battery types.

 

[andyman97]

I've been using protected AW IC batteries with no problems. Just be careful and pay attention. If something seems wrong, don't keep trying to vape, address the problems and take some steps to be safe.

 

[Retriever]

The IMR 18650 is called a safe chemistry battery, and that is what ECF recommends. The reason is that if it fails, it will simply vent and not explode. If a protected battery's protection circuit fails, and you have a dead short, it can explode.

 

[szczuro]

AW IMR NiMN is not protected, but 'probably' most safetly /Safe chemistry/
u can used them in PV with little concern

look here Li-Ion Unprotected Batteries

 

[Retriever]

Some more reading:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...oding-mods-current-situation.html#post5146201

 

[andyman97]

These were unprotected, stacked, non Lithium Ion batteries, fyi.

 

[tearose50]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

 

[Sicarius]

I appreciate the replies, and agree with the words of caution to a large extent.

It comes down to a personal choice and a matter of warranty I suppose since I cannot see the benefit of having two protective devices essentially in the same circuit for no plausible reason. What I will say is that a definite plausible reason would be a fail safe since if one protection circuit malfunctions you have the second to reply on.

But again this is me being me and I cannot get it out of my logic the difference between say a P18+ (pure mechanical) with a protected Li-ion and a ProVari (pure electronic) with an unprotected Li-ion. Both have the same level of undervoltage and short circuit protection (and arguably better in the ProVari anyway).

It was for this reason I started the thread ... I will post my misery someday when my unprotected Li-ion blows me up

 

[TopCookie]

The way I see things Sicarius, is that I will basically put any battery in the LT because they are fundamentally disposable PVs anyway, lol, but the Provari is a quality unit - so I only put the right batteries in there...

 

[Retriever]

I think the LiMn are okay to use (IMR18650). They are safer chemistry and are what is recommended.

 

[Sicarius]

To put this one to rest I propose the following:

Li-ion unprotected batteries will work safely in the ProVari (until the PV protection fails)
LiMn batteries are unprotected, but are accepted as safe due to their chemistry (lower fire fisk)
Li-ion protected batteries are probably the safest option in the PV (fail safe protection - two devices)

Li-ion unprotected batteries are $0 / Li-ion protected batteries are $10 each (descent ones)

Batteries last around a year before noticeable deterioration - so $10 per year saved using unprotected Li-ion

Hell ... say two batteries a year at $20 ... that's 7.5 years before the cost of a ProVari balances out.

Case closed - don't be skimp





I may just keep a couple for emergencies when the recommended ones die and replacements are in the post.

 

[andyman97]

Li-ion protected batteries are probably the safest option in the PV (fail safe protection - two devices)

This is why I got the 3100 mah protected AW IC batteries. Last a day and a half and charge in <4 hours on a pila charger. Plus I pay attention. Everytime I replace the battery and put it on the charger/take it off, I do a good once over to make sure everything looks good. The second I notice a hot battery or anything out of the ordinary, I will just replace it.

 

[tearose50]

I'd like to know more about what the protection does, as well. I'm sure it's somewhere in this amazing forum.

I had thought -- use protected li-ion in your every day non-regulated mod for the best in safety. It seems to me that Most mod makers have been suggesting protected. (Reo doesn't?) In Provari and whatever other devices that have protection -- use IMR.

Despite this -- tons have preferred IMR's. "Experienced vapors".

With this latest accident -- (with the tenergy's) ECF seems to be saying --- AW IMR are the safest --- because they won't blow up. ( Of course, they shouldn't do that if the protection circuit was working properly.....and I don't know if anyone has figured out hot to check that.)

So -- what do we tell a newbie? I don't know.

If you go back to posts in 2009 you might find the scoop on the unprotected li-ions....and how the decisions all came about.