Message to e-Liquid vendors: This is what we want from you!

[Bukket5]

Bashing? NO! Informing? YES! The forum manager let us know that in a case this reprehensible, telling the vendors name would be, and should be considered a service to the rest of us. I always aired on the side of anonymity, but I gave quick re-thought to that approach. I will not, however, go back and rehash past issues just to out a vendor, but in the present and future, I will not hesitate to name names...of course, not in a bashing way, but an informative way.

I agree, there is a big difference between bashing and informing. This was information that needed to be posted. There was no bashing here. Bashing would be more along the lines of not liking a particular juice and blaming the vendor for not refunding your money or sending you something else.

Very very good, but not the best. I'm sure you will find it.

I found it. I had read it before but read it again in light of the conversations going on now. Thanks for the post #.

I provided full disclosure that nicotine is not what leaked in the package. But that is really of no consequence {although I understand what you are saying }.

USPS has strict regulations for shipping liquids, whether shampoo, gatorade, or patchouli oil. Part and parcel (no pun intended) of running a business that ships liquids is being competently aware of this, and ensuring that employees in your shipping department are intimately familiar with any and all regulations that apply to that task.

Because it directly affects how we receive (and hopefully continue to receive) vaping supplies.

At this juncture in the industry's lifecycle, anything less is akin to mixing juice in your kitchen sink, over chicken bones from last night's dinner.

Sorry, I didn't catch that part. For some reason I thought it was VG with nicotine. It makes sense that you could order it without. I'm pretty new at this but I'm learning. I've learned a lot from this thread.

Your review was excellent, well documented, and polite.

I think you did a very good thing by not filing this with the Post Office. I had one order, not related to vaping, arrive that I did have to file for insurance to cover. It required leaving everything in the package as shipped for the postal worker to pick up again so the package could be inspected. The claim would have been denied and it could have lead to serious consequences for all of us, vendors and buyers. Plus it would have been unfair since it was not their fault and I really like honest people

Based on their response to your problems I probably wouldn't order from them. Based on their response to your review, I will remove the probably.

Very well said. There was no remorse in their reply. It was all excuses and CYA. A simple, "I am so sorry. I screwed up and your whole order is being regenerated as I type this. You should have a tracking number before the day is out. I will be keeping in touch with you until it has been safely received.", is what should have been the response.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Message to vendors: Apply some humility to your communications, abandon excuses, appreciate good customers, and for heaven's sake, learn from your mistakes!

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Message to vendors: Apply some humility to your communications, abandon excuses, appreciate good customers, and for heaven's sake, learn from your mistakes!

Absolutely! Personally I can tolerate a mistake or two or a misunderstanding... they happen. But if I have any unpleasant dealings with a vendor or something is handled poorly, there's enough strong competition out there that I'll move on to the next one without looking back. I've done it before and I'll likely do it again. I don't care how good the juice is or the prices -- I won't give my money to unpleasant people. I'm completely loyal to vendors who do right by their customers. Ultimately a vendor would have to ask if it's better to have long-term satisfied loyal customers or to save a few bucks on one bad order and be "right."

 

[daniele25]

Message to vendors: Apply some humility to your communications, abandon excuses, appreciate good customers, and for heaven's sake, learn from your mistakes!

I can't agree with this one more! I recently had some issues with a well known vendor who I ordered from regularly (I am not talking juice vendor in this case, but hardware), and 4 orders in a row in less than 3 months had arrived with some sort of issue, i.e, wrong items, missing items, etc. I am perfectly fine chalking that up to bad luck, or being reasonable and understanding that businesses are operated by humans, and humans make mistakes...but it was the communication with me about the issues that caused me to make the decision to take my business elsewhere. That's a significant number of issues as well, IMO anyway, ....but the communication style could have made me overlook that and continue giving them my business. I think that is absolutely HUGE...and can make a pretty tremendous difference when it comes to word of mouth referrals, etc....which we all know there are a ton of around here. When a vendor is OVERLY compassionate, or EXTRA responsive, etc...those are the ones we all talk about and recommend to others.

I would have obviously REALLY appreciated the "learning from your mistakes" direction from Mr.Mann's post...as that would have meant only one of my 4 orders would have been incorrect....but a few extra compassionate emails that did not contain meaningless excuses could have been the difference between a future order from me versus none at all. And at that point, if they STILL hadn't learned from their mistakes and my items were wrong a 5th time around..I probably would have had to cut the cord regardless and assume that relationship was clearly not meant to be.

 

[Bronze]

I can't agree with this one more! I recently had some issues with a well known vendor who I ordered from regularly (I am not talking juice vendor in this case, but hardware), and 4 orders in a row in less than 3 months had arrived with some sort of issue, i.e, wrong items, missing items, etc. I am perfectly fine chalking that up to bad luck, or being reasonable and understanding that businesses are operated by humans, and humans make mistakes...but it was the communication with me about the issues that caused me to make the decision to take my business elsewhere. That's a significant number of issues as well, IMO anyway, ....but the communication style could have made me overlook that and continue giving them my business. I think that is absolutely HUGE...and can make a pretty tremendous difference when it comes to word of mouth referrals, etc....which we all know there are a ton of around here. When a vendor is OVERLY compassionate, or EXTRA responsive, etc...those are the ones we all talk about and recommend to others.

I agree. And if I were running the operation, I'd not only talk to you about your issues personally, but I would pull your next order and test it before I shipped it to you and then I would follow up after you received it to be sure you were happy with it. That has far more mileage than anyone will ever know. And not with just one customer (i.e., you).

 

[NancyR]

Well, I wouldn't say "ANY SORT". They have offered to resend the bottle of VG that broke, and the hardware that broke.

ETA: and that it would be packaged better.

I'm just waiting an extra week or so to get it, i.e., what I ordered in the first place.

For my dissappointment and maid duty, I guess I"m on my own. A sample was mentioned. Can't say as I haven't received a package yet.

I could never swap the juice now as you can't read the labels after they had to have a BATH, so I typed out new labels for everything.

I live in a very small town and certainly did not want to file a claim w.USPS or bring to anyone's attention, as I am not sure my carrier will want to continue delivering to me. I'm sure his hands were covered with this stuff when he had to place it in my box.

I guess people just do not realize that a few of these incidents, USPS WILL stop delivering ejuice. It's going to come to their attention, just like people who were shipping non media items using Media Mail. As you know, in Wisconsin and other states, they can demand that you open the box at mailing, or they WILL inspect any and all mail marked MEDIA, if they so desire.

As a matter of fact, I saw this at my PO today. A guy sent an ebay buyer a set of chrome wheels for his car.........and used Media Mail. They were "holding" this big box, outside the postmaster's office.........waiting for the guy to come get it. He is gonna have to pay full postge to get it......and that's gonna be real expensive. I imagine the ebay seller will get shut down, or worse, brought up on mail fraud charges with USPS.

I know this has been talked about a lot in this thread, but something else I would be concerned about with this issue. The bottle in the one picture said no nic, but what if it had been a bottle with nic, it could get on other mail, and we never know who's or if they have small kids or pets around to where it could have very bad results past just the clean up!!

 

[oldsoldier]

In the end the Virgin Vapor Issue has been resolved. Annette has made it right with racehorse and is now aware of a serious deficiency that existed in her training program for new employees.

I'm reasonably certain that this has been an unpleasant learning experience for her and VV, and that she is making certain it doesn't happen again. I would ask respectfully that folks just let this one go and give her a chance to lick her wounds. We all make mistakes and I'm sure she is striving to do better, so give her a chance

 

[Bronze]

I can go along with that (even though I never bought from Annette). So easy for me to say. But I believe in second chances as long as concern to fix the problem is recognized.

 

[oldsoldier]

spamming is not nice...

 

[gthompson]

Thank you.

 

[vsummer1]

Darn I missed all the fun ^.

VENDORS: Please show us where you mix your juice. I just found out one of the more expensive vendors is mixing it from their home. I have some problems with that as to you running a business, regarding taxes etc. since you are charging brick and mortar prices.

BUT, if you have a dedicated area that is lab clean, and have got your business resale license, then I am all good with it. SHOW ME. If I am going to pay your very high prices, SHOW ME you have a clean place, that you are not breaking laws and making me contribute to your illegal enterprise while raking in the profits and not paying your fair share of taxes.

 

[TBinAZ]

Darn I missed all the fun ^.

Eh, all I remember doing was pointing the dude to the deals and steals thread. Never know though, was slightly inebriated at the time. lol

OS keeps a tight ship going here...

 

[Bronze]

Eh, all I remember doing was pointing the dude to the deals and steals thread. Never know though, was slightly inebriated at the time. lol

I didn't read it that way TBinAZ. I think old soldier was just interested in axing the spammer posts but just cleaned out the associated comments to wipe out all traces (did you see his "clean up in Aisle 5" comment). I didn't take it as he had any problem with the subsequent comments. In fact, it is likely he agreed with them. He was just being thorough. My take anyway.

 

[TBinAZ]

Ya, I know. I just really don't recall what I posted exactly, which can be a little questionable I guess. Oh well, no harm, no foul.

I didn't read it that way TBinAZ. I think old soldier was just interested in axing the spammer posts but just cleaned out the associated comments to wipe out all traces (did you see his "clean up in Aisle 5" comment). I didn't take it as he had any problem with the subsequent comments. In fact, it is likely he agreed with them. He was just being thorough. My take anyway.

 

[Bronze]

Ya, I know. I just really don't recall what I posted exactly, which can be a little questionable I guess. Oh well, no harm, no foul.

I don't recall it being caustic so I think you're safe. I probably wasn't at 100% when I read it either.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Let's get this thread back on track so that a vendor would actually read it. Let's try to keep posts about the topic and some reactions to posts; but once it starts to devolve into a social thread, the original point of it will be lost.

To vendors: I think you should start having some random samples sent out for testing from an independent lab so that you can post the findings. (Inspired by ECF member imogene's desires).

 

[Bwig]

I would like to know what experience theses mixers have and see where they are mixing the eliquids at. This is stuff were inhaling in our lungs so I think we should be given that info.

 

[imogene]

Vendors,

I believe that for the ecigarette community to remain unregulated by the government and for ecigarettes and ejuices to remain available for the public, we need to regulate ourselves. The FDA has already looking into potential public health risks posed by vaping and will likely continue doing so. In 2009, the FDA tested two products available at the time and found that products offered by both companies contained TSNAs, which is an extremely deadly carcinogen found in tobacco, responsible for millions of deaths. Evidence like that is used to turn public perception against vaping, and used to produce pressure to enact regulatory laws to control the industry. I want ecigarettes to remain available, so that concerns me, as well as making me concerned about my own personal safety.

For me personally, I vape as a substitute for smoking, which I have been addicted to since I began smoking in high school. I failed every attempt to quit until I found vaping, and now I am finding that whenever I attempt to stop vaping, I end up smoking again. I don't believe it's an unrealistic expectation that I will probably be vaping for the rest of my life, and as such, I am taking the long view with regards to my health and my vaping choices. I depend on the ability to vape safely.

I am a loyal customer when I find products I trust and I am resistant to change once I find solutions that satisfy me. Things like safety testing products, providing safety information, and providing appropriate safety warnings are all factors that makes me trust a company and make me a loyal consumer. Please seek to earn my trust. You will be rewarded for the effort by me and many others, I'm certain of it.

My personal wishlist:

1. Lab testing for the top 50 carcinogens found in tobacco, such as TSNAs, to emulate the tests performed by the FDA and prove them wrong
2. ejuices free from the most dangerous tobacco carcinogens, phthalates (such as diethyl phthalate (DEP)), diacetyl, or other known toxins that would be harmful to inhale on a daily basis
3. Posted warnings if any ejuices contain known toxins from among the top 50 tobacco carcinogens or other toxins in them so that I can make my own risk assessment and so that I can make informed choices. I may be willing to take a risk, but as a consumer I want to be aware of the risks I am taking and appropriately informed.

 

[Apptiger]

Let's get this thread back on track so that a vendor would actually read it. Let's try to keep posts about the topic and some reactions to posts; but once it starts to devolve into a social thread, the original point of it will be lost.

To vendors: I think you should start having some random samples sent out for testing from an independent lab so that you can post the findings. (Inspired by ECF member imogene's desires).

Great Idea. As the industry and community develop I see some of the plethora of juice vendors we have thinning out. We are getting to a point where the garage/enthusiastic sharers vendors will need to make some hard decisions. Do you want ot make a little cash for now and help out or do you want to build a business? Turn it into a viable and larger business or just make juice for personal consumption and close friends?
The market will force it and sooner or later, regulation will come into play. As a community and customer base, we can help steer the direction and as vendors, they can help shape it. And that inevitable regulation can be dictatorial or more collaborative (political environment and prevailing winds aside).
To vendors- are you part of the problem or part of a solution?

 

[Racehorse]

the market will force it and sooner or later, regulation will come into play.

There are already customers who are regulating what they buy themselves.

If I receive juice with a hair in it, you can hardly say it was mixed under lab-standard conditions.

I can wash all my equipment before use. I can't wash my juice, so I need it to be uncontaminated.