I must be tired, can you provide a road map as to how your post relates to my post or the exchange we've been having?
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3,452 Parents and Grandparents urge President Obama to protect children from all tobacco products.
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Most of the anti e-cig organizations, proposals, media campaigns... Are of a certain political ideology. Those who blindly back said ideology will get the vaping climate and world they deserve...
Some of the hate regarding THR comes from so called "conservatives", but a lot more of it comes from "liberals". Libertarians have far and away been the most supportive.
Politically, I identify somewhat to the left of self-described liberals, but I share part of the mindset of libertarians, in that governments need to be watched carefully, seeing as how they will take from the people when allowed. In the US, conservatives and liberals favor oppression by forcing people to live by their narrow moral standards, even when the behaviors they object to hurt no one, or no one other than the person engaging in them.
The Democratic Party seems to me to be in self-destruct mode with their dishonest attacks on vaping and other THR. The truth will eventually spread, and they will suffer the consequences of their actions. I think the Republicans will eventually see a huge political advantage in attacking the hate, and will come around to the truth long before the Democrats will.
I'd hate to see a lot of other issues go more the Republicans' way on account of all of this, but then again, millions of lives could quite possibly be saved by defeating the dishonest, ideological extremism we are being bullied with.
Liberals need to wake up. Senator Richard Durbin is one of my senators, and is one of the worst enemies of THR. In the past I've cast votes against him in primaries, and at least once or twice for him in general elections as the 'lesser of two evils', but I will never, ever, ever vote for him again. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
The poll asking about the proposed FDA regulations I find to be dishonest, in that it doesn't mention anything about the February 2007 cut-off date for innovation. It gets nearly no mention in the media, and if more people knew, the regulations would have far less support.
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Yes. Disturbing. Sad. You are absolutely correct on both counts.
I understood what you said, just not what it has to do with "Walmart vapers" having an impact on public opinion, or were you using that phrase as some form of derogatory name for liberals?
As for liberal politicians being hugely anti-vape, I agree, and it is unfortunate. I express myself to my politicians as much as I can. I am not a single issue voter though.
I'm not a single issue voter, either, but my voting has a very large anit-corruption agenda to it, and I see the anti-THR movement as being one of the most corrupt agendas in my lifetime. I am determined not to vote for one of its top leaders.
I think it's best that we try to point out the contradinctions (hypocracy) in the stance our liberal aquaintances may be engaging in and convincing them that there is nothing liberal or progressive in attempting to destroy vaping, by dishonestly feeding people's fear of newness.
I see the anti-THR movement as being one of the most BLATANTLY corrupt agendas in my lifetime.
I see corrupt agendas everywhere I look - you don't have to be paranoid to see it - you just have to look a little harder.
But the anti-THR movement is the most blatantly corrupt agenda I can recall ever looking into. Not only is there blatant lies and deliberate manipulation, but it just defies logic.
I totally agree with your last statement.
I think because a few years ago tobacco and pharmaceutical companies as well as states and others weren't losing money to the vapin' business there wasn't as much 'anti-vape' BS being flung around.
'The children' weren't in danger until fat wallets were in danger of not getting so fat anymore..
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This is true until you take into account somdcomputergu's post, TC and the ANTZ have had free rein for the last 3-4 decades to tell any lie and take as much money as they wanted. Then a Chinese Pharmacist used modern batteries, a 40 year old idea and modern technology to create a viable, much safer subsitute for cumbustible tobacco. They tried to declare nicotine a drug in 2009 and were shot down by the courts and ever since they have fallen back on their lies and propaganda which worked so well for the last 50 years, see second, third and so on hand smoke.
E-cigarettes are removing a large income stream from BG, BT, TC, research groups and the ANTZ and to them it becomes extremely logical to use any means necessary to gain control over them.
It isn't paranoia when they are out to get you.
This is true until you take into account somdcomputergu's post, TC and the ANTZ have had free rein for the last 3-4 decades to tell any lie and take as much money as they wanted. Then a Chinese Pharmacist used modern batteries, a 40 year old idea and modern technology to create a viable, much safer subsitute for cumbustible tobacco. They tried to declare nicotine a drug in 2009 and were shot down by the courts and ever since they have fallen back on their lies and propaganda which worked so well for the last 50 years, see second, third and so on hand smoke.
E-cigarettes are removing a large income stream from BG, BT, TC, research groups and the ANTZ and to them it becomes extremely logical to use any means necessary to gain control over them.
It isn't paranoia when they are out to get you.
And there are now millions of vapers with "PH" in their crosshairs...
Andria
And this problem is only compounded by the tendency of the Mainstream Media to highlight minority voices.
Except, of course, in our case.
Yeah, that was the plan all along, and it's working much too well...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger
A brief history of who has opposed electronic cigarettes...I think because a few years ago tobacco and pharmaceutical companies as well as states and others weren't loosing money to the vapin' business there wasn't as much 'anti-vape' BS being flung around.
'The children' weren't in danger until fat wallets were in danger of not getting so fat anymore..
It stared with Big Pharma funded ANTZ groups.
After vaping got bigger, Big Government joined the fight because losing money.
And then Big Tobacco got involved, trying to shape coming regulations in their favor.
There was a fair amount of "anti-vape" BS being flung around as far back as 2009.
But it just increases with time, and loss of money by the Big Players.
I do my best to try to fight it, and to get people to examine why they feel the way that they do, but it's an uphill battle as evidenced by my exchanges in this thread. There's a poll thread on here that makes me die a little inside every time it pops up. 90% of participants blindly accept the basis for all regulation against vaping. When questioned, I actually get the same run around you see with anti-thr people, well we have to protect the kids, from what I'm not sure, but there must be something!
I haven't voted on that poll yet, and I doubt I ever will.
I'm sort of torn.
Since the "new breed" of vapers are younger and doing it because it's fun and cool...
And not really to save their lives...
The flavors are still something that concerns me.
So the fact that many of "them" are using zero nicotine doesn't affect my opinion.
Nicotine, in my opinion, is perfectly fine.
Unless you have pre-existing medical conditions which also preclude the use of caffeine.
I understand your concern about the youngsters, but think about this : If they didn't have access to vaping stuff, what would they do instead? I believe a large number of them would be smoking. Or maybe doing <other things we cannot mention>.
When I was a teenager, I probably would have started vaping instead of smoking if it had been an option.
I say it's far better for teens to vape, even to do the whole cloud-chase thing, even with 24mg nicotine, than to EVER smoke. Nicotine isn't all that addictive for someone who's never smoked, but it doesn't take much smoking before that addiction is present and accounted for and dying for a smoke. I think I heard that if you smoke daily for a week, you're addicted. That could be wrong, just more ANTZ BS, but what if it's true?
Kids follow fads, they do what their friends do, and vaping is so much less harmful, and WON'T leave them with a nasty addiction that will plague them for the rest of their lives. People who think that passing a law is going to keep younguns from doing anything... clearly you've never had any kids.
Andria
Kids follow fads, they do what their friends do, and vaping is so much less harmful, and WON'T leave them with a nasty addiction that will plague them for the rest of their lives. People who think that passing a law is going to keep younguns from doing anything... clearly you've never had any kids.
Andria
70% of smokers do not develop a dependency to smoking.
that is why half of all smokers have quit by themselves by
their 30's.
regards
mike
I know... I seem to have a slight mental block on this issue.
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