If nicotine was really that deadly wouldn't we be bombing the hell outta somebody for having 'substantial quantities' of it in 'weapons grade'?
A few crafty regulations could take care of that too...
If nicotine was really that deadly wouldn't we be bombing the hell outta somebody for having 'substantial quantities' of it in 'weapons grade'?
I think there's been some abuse of nicotine gum reported, including a fairly recent case where a bunch of kids got a bit sick and adults frightened that was written about here.
Extremely isolated, to the point of being essentially non-existent.It so isolated though
It so isolated though. I asked my daughters if they've ever seen anyone in high school use gum or lozenges for fun. They said they don't know of a single person. They don't lie about this stuff either. ecig use is hit and miss. They said the smokers switched some of the chewers switched also. The never smokers that use ecigs go zero nic and only do it outside of school at get togethers and parties. OTOH- they said plenty of use of other stuff....which hasn't changed since...ever...lol
IF nicotine is even as remotely as dangerous and addictive as they want us to believe then NRT's would be massively abused. Not an isolated case here and there of experimentation.
Caffeine use is pretty massive though. Energy drinks, coffee, and 5 hours are being consumed like water in the teen crowd. Nobody bats an eye at that though. Heck, high school teachers encourage coffee in the morning for their students.
I used to drink caffeinated coffee, dawn to dusk. Eventually, I switched to half-caf for other than breakfast. Upon taking up ecigs, I switched to drinking caffeinated only with my breakfast and full decaf the rest of the time. I am better off for that.
I used to drink caffeinated coffee, dawn to dusk. Eventually, I switched to half-caf for other than breakfast. Upon taking up ecigs, I switched to drinking caffeinated only with my breakfast and full decaf the rest of the time. I am better off for that.
thank you for confirming what i have been saying for a long time.It so isolated though. I asked my daughters if they've ever seen anyone in high school use gum or lozenges for fun. They said they don't know of a single person. They don't lie about this stuff either. Ecig use is hit and miss. They said the smokers switched some of the chewers switched also. The never smokers that use ecigs go zero nic and only do it outside of school at get togethers and parties. OTOH- they said plenty of use of other stuff....which hasn't changed since...ever...lol
IF nicotine is even as remotely as dangerous and addictive as they want us to believe then NRT's would be massively abused. Not an isolated case here and there of experimentation.
Caffeine use is pretty massive though. Energy drinks, coffee, and 5 hours are being consumed like water in the teen crowd. Nobody bats an eye at that though. Heck, high school teachers encourage coffee in the morning for their students.
I find it interesting that policy makers are demonizing nicotine so much, yet the use of this "other stuff" (I think I know what you meant) is becoming perfectly acceptable. I commute to the west side of LA, where smoking and vaping is banned just about anywhere in public, yet I regularly see (and smell) open use of this stuff on the street. Heck, in one case I personally witnessed, it was being openly used in a subway car. If I dare even look at my PV in the same situation, I'd probably face a ticket (or at minimum, public flogging).OTOH- they said plenty of use of other stuff....which hasn't changed since...ever...lol
Yes, and when they stop drinking all that caffeine years later, hope they have plenty of aspirin available to handle the headaches (not to mention the grogginess and general malaise). Caffeine can present its own addiction profile.Caffeine use is pretty massive though. Energy drinks, coffee, and 5 hours are being consumed like water in the teen crowd. Nobody bats an eye at that though. Heck, high school teachers encourage coffee in the morning for their students.
Yes, and when they stop drinking all that caffeine years later, hope they have plenty of aspirin available to handle the headaches (not to mention the grogginess and general malaise). Caffeine can present its own addiction profile.
I find it interesting that policy makers are demonizing nicotine so much, yet the use of this "other stuff" (I think I know what you meant) is becoming perfectly acceptable. I commute to the west side of LA, where smoking and vaping is banned just about anywhere in public, yet I regularly see (and smell) open use of this stuff on the street. Heck, in one case I personally witnessed, it was being openly used in a subway car. If I dare even look at my PV in the same situation, I'd probably face a ticket (or at minimum, public flogging).
There is a ready double standard here that is becoming increasingly frustrating to me. Hey, I don't care what people do, as long as I have the same freedoms.
Yes, and when they stop drinking all that caffeine years later, hope they have plenty of aspirin available to handle the headaches (not to mention the grogginess and general malaise). Caffeine can present its own addiction profile.
Even if the Deeming is finalized in June, we probably have a bit longer than that.So... June, right? I should be able to accumulate another year's worth of nic by then -- got about 3 yrs' worth now. They can kiss my shiney hiney.
I don't recall anything in the proposed Deeming reg that would immediately limit availability of liquids, including nic base. Doing so would require further regulations, which can only be done once liquids are "deemed" a tobacco product. Further regulations would have to go through a similar process where they are proposed, followed by a public comment period, etc, etc.Deeming is primarily a jurisdictional step," Zeller said. "We should all expect further rulemaking to come once deeming has been finalized."
Even if the Deeming is finalized in June, we probably have a bit longer than that.
From the OP article:
I don't recall anything in the proposed Deeming reg that would immediately limit availability of liquids, including nic base. Doing so would require further regulations, which can only be done once liquids are "deemed" a tobacco product. Further regulations would have to go through a similar process where they are proposed, followed by a public comment period, etc, etc.
Still, you don't want to get caught up in the panic that's certain to occur if/when they do propose regs that actually limit the availability of liquids. Prices will go sky-high then.
Rossum, I don't think you understand the process. The regulations are already in place, and have been for several years. Once e-cigs are "deemed", they will have to comply with these regulations.
Yes, there is a 2-year "grace" period, so it wouldn't "immediately" limit what is available. But, as proposed, no new regulations would need to be added in order to kill off most of the e-cig industry. Every e-cig product would need to file a "new tobacco product" application with the FDA (a process which will cost, on average, $334,000.00 per product. And current regulations define a "product" in extremely strict terms - any change in the size or content, or even the color of the packaging can be construed as a different product.
Won't have an immediate effect, but will have an inevitable effect, 2 years from now.
Pretty sure Rossum understands all of that. It's the nic base which he cites, and other DIY ingredients where the regs aren't written out with the deeming but as he quotes Zeller - those that may come later. If it is as you imply - totally complete with the deeming, the Zeller's comments had no context to anything else. But you're right, premixed and hardware will take a serious hit with the deeming as it is written.
Yeah, I was pretty sure Rossum understood this, which is why I was befuddled by his post.
But I interpreted Zeller's remarks completely differently - that once e-cigs have to follow the tobacco-product regulations, they could add more regulations.
But I also don't get at all why nic base would possibly be considered as outside the scope of this deeming process, since these are exactly the only reason why the deeming could possibly apply to e-cigs in the first place. PG, VG, Flavorings, sure. But anything with nicotine in it?
One of the many reasons I started stockpiling a year ago and am now just picking up a few odds and ends now. Because those tobacco regulations also include not being able to use a credit card to purchase tobacco products.The regulations are already in place, and have been for several years. Once e-cigs are "deemed", they will have to comply with these regulations.
If nicotine base was marketed in the United States prior to the grandfather date then it might escape the deeming regulations...But I also don't get at all why nic base would possibly be considered as outside the scope of this deeming process...