FDA Fresh Insights into Tobacco Regulation
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It so isolated though. I asked my daughters if they've ever seen anyone in high school use gum or lozenges for fun. They said they don't know of a single person. They don't lie about this stuff either. ecig use is hit and miss. They said the smokers switched some of the chewers switched also. The never smokers that use ecigs go zero nic and only do it outside of school at get togethers and parties. OTOH- they said plenty of use of other stuff....which hasn't changed since...ever...lol
IF nicotine is even as remotely as dangerous and addictive as they want us to believe then NRT's would be massively abused. Not an isolated case here and there of experimentation.
Caffeine use is pretty massive though. Energy drinks, coffee, and 5 hours are being consumed like water in the teen crowd. Nobody bats an eye at that though. Heck, high school teachers encourage coffee in the morning for their students.
I used to drink caffeinated coffee, dawn to dusk. Eventually, I switched to half-caf for other than breakfast. Upon taking up ecigs, I switched to drinking caffeinated only with my breakfast and full decaf the rest of the time. I am better off for that.
I did much the same with my tea -- used to be all day long, strong English Breakfast tea; now it's just 2 cups in the morning, and decaf iced tea the rest of the day. It helped a great deal with my dehydration/electrolyte problem.
Andria
I've found the older I get then less coffee I drink. I used to go 2 big cups in the AM and then another 1 or 2 in the mid afternoon. For the last 3-4 years I pretty much drink 2 normal sized cups back to back in the AM and not touch it for the rest of the day. Depending on the day, sometimes I simply forget to brew the second cup. I almost never drink coffee after noon unless I'm on a long drive or really dragging for whatever reason. I don't drink any other caffeinated beverages either. No tea/soda/energy drinks. I never thought I would be where I am in the coffee dept today 10 years ago...
My coffee consumption has dropped a bit since vaping. But it was high before and now higher than most since - just that for me, it is reduced. Maybe my espresso vape is a factor??? Maybe the connection between coffee and cigarettes?? I simply don't know. And frankly don't care, one way or the other.
Interesting my caffeine consumption has gone down as well. I used to drink two large iced coffees each day followed by a pot of coffee every evening plus Dr. Pepper in between. I'm down to one iced coffee and now lemonade or cranapple juice. Weird, never thought I'd see the day.
thank you for confirming what i have been saying for a long time.
the increase in underage e-cig use is primarily the result of
disposable zero nicotine,fruit flavored,brightly decorated
cigalikes.
these are a must have at any respectable teen drinking party.
mike
I find it interesting that policy makers are demonizing nicotine so much, yet the use of this "other stuff" (I think I know what you meant) is becoming perfectly acceptable. I commute to the west side of LA, where smoking and vaping is banned just about anywhere in public, yet I regularly see (and smell) open use of this stuff on the street. Heck, in one case I personally witnessed, it was being openly used in a subway car. If I dare even look at my PV in the same situation, I'd probably face a ticket (or at minimum, public flogging).
There is a ready double standard here that is becoming increasingly frustrating to me. Hey, I don't care what people do, as long as I have the same freedoms.
Yes, and when they stop drinking all that caffeine years later, hope they have plenty of aspirin available to handle the headaches (not to mention the grogginess and general malaise). Caffeine can present its own addiction profile.
I don't suppose anybody bothers to study the effects of caffeine relative to workplace stress and the toll that such takes on people.
It's all jacked up and makes no sense to a logical person. The thing about other stuff is it is completely left to the State's to make their own policies now. If it were up to the Feds (who are grossly behind the curve) I'm pretty sure the growing for personal use stuff wouldn't be so friendly. Not that it could be stopped but it wouldn't be freely allowed. Giving power and freedom to the individual at the cost of big business and taxation has become totally un American. It's sickening.
The whole nicotine thing isn't a double standard in the eyes of big business or Fed/State Govs because it's not apples to apples. We (the little guys) figured out a way to bypass multi-billion dollar corporations and infringe upon a massive tax base without much resistance. THAT abosultely CANNOT happen in America anymore. The nicotine card/child card/ unknown card/ and whatever card "they" can figure out will be thrown directly at us until we are squashed. It's all a ruse to protect taxes and corporations. A public health miracle is being twisted into a epidemic of epic and dangerous proportions. It's illogical but logical all at the same time. Because first of all, WE are not allowed to cut into the corp or gov machine for any reason and second of all, WE are not smart enough to make decisions for ourselves and what's best for us unless it's best for THEM too.
The cycle is backwards with this. Innovation is usually ground up. Starts small and then becomes big business over time through consolidation and market share. But this particular innovation is cutting into a very mature and deep pocketed industry almost overnight. Blindsided if you will. Neither the Gov nor big business will sit on their hands on this one. It's a cage match and unfortunately us little guys are massively outgunned. We can hope and pray for a David and Goliath ending. But what are the odds?
Even if the Deeming is finalized in June, we probably have a bit longer than that.
From the OP article:
I don't recall anything in the proposed Deeming reg that would immediately limit availability of liquids, including nic base. Doing so would require further regulations, which can only be done once liquids are "deemed" a tobacco product. Further regulations would have to go through a similar process where they are proposed, followed by a public comment period, etc, etc.
Still, you don't want to get caught up in the panic that's certain to occur if/when they do propose regs that actually limit the availability of liquids. Prices will go sky-high then.
Rossum, I don't think you understand the process. The regulations are already in place, and have been for several years. Once e-cigs are "deemed", they will have to comply with these regulations.
Yes, there is a 2-year "grace" period, so it wouldn't "immediately" limit what is available. But, as proposed, no new regulations would need to be added in order to kill off most of the e-cig industry. Every e-cig product would need to file a "new tobacco product" application with the FDA (a process which will cost, on average, $334,000.00 per product. And current regulations define a "product" in extremely strict terms - any change in the size or content, or even the color of the packaging can be construed as a different product.
Won't have an immediate effect, but will have an inevitable effect, 2 years from now.
Pretty sure Rossum understands all of that. It's the nic base which he cites, and other DIY ingredients where the regs aren't written out with the deeming but as he quotes Zeller - those that may come later. If it is as you imply - totally complete with the deeming, the Zeller's comments had no context to anything else. But you're right, premixed and hardware will take a serious hit with the deeming as it is written.
Gotta keep an eye on the States as soon as the regs come out and the 2 year clock starts ticking. States can easily jump way in front of the FDA is they choose. I think we may see a rash of state regs that ban internet ordering/shipping sooner rather than later. Hope I'm wrong but State tax money is being threatened more each passing day.
Yeah, I was pretty sure Rossum understood this, which is why I was befuddled by his post.
But I interpreted Zeller's remarks completely differently - that once e-cigs have to follow the tobacco-product regulations, they could add more regulations.
But I also don't get at all why nic base would possibly be considered as outside the scope of this deeming process, since these are exactly the only reason why the deeming could possibly apply to e-cigs in the first place. PG, VG, Flavorings, sure. But anything with nicotine in it?
You may be right. I'm not sure how much control they have or would have at the wholesale level since there are other uses, although scrutiny in that area would be heightened. I'll wait for Rossum to reply :- ) .. that was just a guess from what I know he knows and how I read it.
One of the many reasons I started stockpiling a year ago and am now just picking up a few odds and ends now. Because those tobacco regulations also include not being able to use a credit card to purchase tobacco products.
I remember way back when, I had a standing monthly order with one of the Indian tribes that sold online. Once a month, they would charge my cc and ship me 6 cartons of cigarettes. Around 2005-ish, that cc prohibition came into being and I had to switch to electronic check for payment.
So I assume once e-cigs are 'deemed' as tobacco, that cc restriction will fall on them too.
If nicotine base was marketed in the United States prior to the grandfather date then it might escape the deeming regulations...
But I don't think it was marketed in the United States prior to the grandfather date.
So I don't see a reason why it would escape the deeming regulations either.
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