Toxicity Assessment of Refill Liquids for Electronic Cigarettes

[Katya]

I read pretty much the whole paper. Lots of it I don't understand. One of the questions I've asked is where are the reports of physicians treating people with illness caused by vaping? Dr Farsalinos is a vaper so another question could be, what precautions does he take given his more detailed knowledge of the issue. We should ask him what he vapes.

He's a vaper? I didn't know that.

I can't, of course, speak for him, but he's always been very consistent about advising vapers to avoid unnecessary (avoidable) risks. He made it perfectly clear when we were discussing his findings wrt diacetyl.

Donate to Dr Farsalinos' new study | Page 8 | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[sofarsogood]

He's a vaper? I didn't know that.

I can't, of course, speak for him, but he's always been very consistent about advising vapers to avoid unnecessary (avoidable) risks. He made it perfectly clear when we were discussing his findings wrt diacetyl.

I saw him vaping at the end of an interview on youtube. I think I recall he said he stopped smoking the day he started vaping. His study is interesting but needs interpretation for practical application. May be I'll hurry the timetable for diy but then I still need practical advice.

Dr. F is the only voice in ecig research/science/'public health' I trust.

 

[Katya]

I saw him vaping at the end of an interview on youtube. I think I recall he said he stopped smoking the day he started vaping. His study is interesting but needs interpretation for practical application. May be I'll hurry the timetable for diy but then I still need practical advice.

Dr. F is the only voice in ecig research,/science/'public health' I trust.

Hah! I had no idea he was a fellow vaper.

I agree that it needs interpretation and discussion.

BTW, he's a physician; first do no harm.

 

[sofarsogood]

Hah! I had no idea he was a fellow vaper.

Go to the last few moments of this video. A PBusardo Video - An Interview with Dr. Farsalin…:

 

[Katya]

Go to the last few moments of this video. A PBusardo Video - An Interview with Dr. Farsalin…:

I watched that video... when it first came out.

I didn't remember him vaping in it.

 

[Puff2K]

I watched that video... when it first came out.

I didn't remember him vaping in it.

He has a mod in the last second or two of the video.

 

[caramel]

Tootle puffers?

 

[OCD]

Tootle puffers?

FTW.........

 

[nicnik]

Agreed that this is highly useful data but also less than thrilled about the results. This will fuel regulationists beyond the point of reason and give the anti's more than enough to pound the table.

If this is used to appropriately regulate and innovate methods that lead to a reduction in these harmful elements in liquids, that'd be great. What's certain is that this will finally end the "there's only 4 things in e-liquid" debate that some vapers erroneously engage in.

I really hope that these data are used for good but my fear is that they won't be. Rather, it will be used not to fix the issue but to eliminate the entire discussion.

At best, it's a regulatory beginning that will benefit us all because at present, e-liquid isn't safe enough. At worst, it's a science-based aguement that anti's will use to finally prove that e-liquid isn't safe period.

I hope my wife doesn't see this.

Knowledge is good. Knowledge is power. The ANTZ can try to fool people about the study's implications, even fool themselves. We can absorb the knowledge and put it to good use, while they use it to further dumb themselves down.

 

[Mossy]

I downloaded and read the entire doc.
I think the points you can take from this study are, you have to have people in the E-liquid manufacturing business, who know what they are doing and doing it in places that are suitable for this purpose. Clean work places are essential when mixing flavours and other substances. I am a home brewer and the main thing home brewers first learn is "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" when brewing.......one little bit of yeast infection and you loose the lot, so nowhere in the house is cleaner than my brewing room. I would hope people who DIY take note

 

[Katya]

I am a home brewer and the main thing home brewers first learn is "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" when brewing.......one little bit of yeast infection and you loose the lot, so nowhere in the house is cleaner than my brewing room.

I'm all for cleanliness, but PG possesses strong antimicrobial and antifungal properties; glycerol not so much, so if you're using 100% VG you have to be more careful.

Anecdotal, but I haven't had a respiratory infection since I started vaping 5.5 years ago. Not even a cold. I vape 60 and 70% PG ejuices.

 

[mauricem00]

I'm all for cleanliness, but PG possesses strong antimicrobial and antifungal properties; glycerol not so much, so if you're using 100% VG you have to be more careful.

Anecdotal, but I haven't had a respiratory infection since I started vaping 5.5 years ago. Not even a cold. I vape 60 and 70% PG ejuices.

studies on lab rats has shown that PG vapor is a strong anti-viral and anti- fungal agent that was very effective in preventing flu in rats exposed to the virus. it is also a solvent that may help break up the tar deposited by years of smoking. I use to get colds every winter but not this year.I started vaping on christmas and missed the winter cold and flu season.I vape 80% pg because I like the flavor and throat hit.even my unflavored base mix has a pleasant sweat taste to it

 

[Lessifer]

I downloaded and read the entire doc.
I think the points you can take from this study are, you have to have people in the E-liquid manufacturing business, who know what they are doing and doing it in places that are suitable for this purpose. Clean work places are essential when mixing flavours and other substances. I am a home brewer and the main thing home brewers first learn is "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" when brewing.......one little bit of yeast infection and you loose the lot, so nowhere in the house is cleaner than my brewing room. I would hope people who DIY take note

I still haven't read the whole thing, but I skimmed most of it. What I got was that there wasn't anything found that would not be expected given the components of e-liquid, namely the flavorings used. There were no contaminants found, rather the flavorings used contain traces of ingredients that perhaps should not be used. Which is why the conclusion given seems off to me, unless he means that they should select their ingredients more carefully.

Unless I just read it wrong.

 

[skoony]

I am still trying to wrap my head around how a chemical or flavoring going into my lungs is anymore dangerous than that very same chemical going into my stomach. I know that there are digestive enzymes in the stomach that might break down those chemicals or not. I also know that I exhale those chemicals, at least some of them, when I vape. Let's say the ones that don't get broken down in digestion or exhaled get into my bloodstream. What is the difference? It's still the same chemicals in my one bloodstream.

i have heard this debated before.

basically your lungs are an air filter passing on
air to the blood stream.
your stomach is a food filter passing on the other
nutrients your body needs.
both in there own way eliminate unneeded waste
materials.
your liver through metabolism filters out the needed nutrients
and components from the air needed to live and additionally
filters out the rest of the unneeded waste and waste
resulting from the chemical processes your body uses
to process the the things needed to sustain life.
all though different in process their function is
very similar.all three are essentially filters.

mike

 

[BigEgo]

Main points of the study:

1) Two samples had diaceytl (both from Johnson Creek).

2) None of the liquids had concerning amounts of Staphylococcus aureus (MSRA) or Pseudomonas aeruginosa (another bacteria known to be antibiotic resistant). All liquids were within the European Pharmacopoeia standards for these.

3) Only one liquid had elevated levels of yeast or mold (Totally Wicked's pure VG). When I say "elevated" I mean 1 CFU/mL (the other liquids were below 1 CFU). I have no idea what kind of risk (if any) this poses.

4) Four liquids had a total microbial count of 1 CFU/mL, which is considered higher than the pharma standard. All the rest were below that level (considered safe). Interestingly, most of the offenders were tobacco blends which makes me wonder if somehow the tobacco absolute (flavoring extracted from tobacco plants) might have an elevated microbial count. Bacteria grows on plants.

5) None of the samples had levels of diethylene glycol (DEG) or Ethylene Glycol (EG) above the safety limits set by the USP standard.

6) Only 5 samples had levels of hydrocarbons above the limit of detection. In all cases, the hydrocarbons in question were alpha-pinene and beta-pinene. In this case, all of the samples where these compounds were detected were Menthol, Spearmint or Minty flavors. As the name implies, pinene is often released (and found naturally) in Pine trees (and many other coniferous trees). Therefore, it makes sense it is being used in Minty flavors.

7) None of the samples had any detectable levels of Tobacco-Specific Nitrosamines (one of the the most prevalent carcinogens in tobacco).

8) All of the samples had some level of formaldehyde detected. The researchers speculate it is probably a result of natural extracts being used in flavoring (as formaldehyde is found naturally in foods, etc).

 

[Cool_Breeze]

It's not 100% clear to me, but it seems the liquids, rather than vapor were tested.

I wonder what the effect of the heat of vaping might be on 'an elevated microbial count.'

 

[KFarsalinos]

The problem was mainly the use of very high amounts of flavoring compounds in a small minority of the liquids. The levels were higher than what is recommended in food products. In my opinion, this creates an issue considering that very little is known about inhalation of these compounds.
I have always advised vapers to use as little flavoring as possible. Of course, i accept that for most people it is impossible to use flavorless liquids, and i do not suggest flavored to be restricted. However, manufacturers should have some quality measures concerning the amount of flavoring they put into the liquid!!!

 

[Katya]

Dr. Farsalinos--in person!

What an honor!

 

[Lessifer]

The problem was mainly the use of very high amounts of flavoring compounds in a small minority of the liquids. The levels were higher than what is recommended in food products. In my opinion, this creates an issue considering that very little is known about inhalation of these compounds.
I have always advised vapers to use as little flavoring as possible. Of course, i accept that for most people it is impossible to use flavorless liquids, and i do not suggest flavored to be restricted. However, manufacturers should have some quality measures concerning the amount of flavoring they put into the liquid!!!

First I want to say thank you for the work that you do!

Most of us here are "armchair scientists" at best so we're just trying to figure out how best to utilize the information you've provided. This explanation goes a long way in how we interpret your results.


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[TaketheRedPill]

I am still trying to wrap my head around how a chemical or flavoring going into my lungs is anymore dangerous than that very same chemical going into my stomach.

the only way I understand it is that lungs don't have hydrochloric acid to neutralize or destroy nasties, but the stomach does. Like, we hear about popcorn lung, but nobody has died of popcorn stomach.