Indiana Call to Action: Multiple Indiana bills would threaten access to and use of e-cigarettes.

[Hoosier]

Producing liquid and receiving liquid, there is no exception for DIY. If the liquid is intended to be used in a vape pen, it qualifies as manufacturing.

You need to look for it saying that DIY is NOT included like beer production, tobacco growing and use, and wine making.

Class A infraction for the production of juice without a permit and compliance.

Class C for receiving liquid from a non-permitted manufacturer. (Sharing with a friend)

 

[kas122461]

Producing liquid and receiving liquid, there is no exception for DIY. If the liquid is intended to be used in a vape pen, it qualifies as manufacturing.

You need to look for it saying that DIY is NOT included like beer production, tobacco growing and use, and wine making.

Class A infraction for the production of juice without a permit and compliance.

Class C for receiving liquid from a non-permitted manufacturer. (Sharing with a friend)

Thanks

KAS

 

[charly1954]

Haven't drop by in a while, I emailed and called my representives many times and I take it all that was in vain.
I am so ticked off right now I can't see straight. I DIY my own juice and if they want to lock me up for that then they'll just have to catch me.

I feel for all the venders who will loose their arses in this new HYPOCRITICAL LAW.

I order my supplies from Florida, what are they gona do check all packages comeing into INDIANA to see if they have NICOTINE inside?
What the politicians really want is EVERYONE TO GO BACK SMOKING so they can collect taxes.

Again I am so pe-od I could blow a gasket!

 

[Zurd]

I sure feel your pain. Here in Quebec they're trying to push a legislation where you cannot vape outside, it's quite far from what's happening in Indiana but I fear that we're gonna get it too one day.

 

[pennysmalls]

Haven't drop by in a while, I emailed and called my representives many times and I take it all that was in vain.
I am so ticked off right now I can't see straight. I DIY my own juice and if they want to lock me up for that then they'll just have to catch me.

I feel for all the venders who will loose their arses in this new HYPOCRITICAL LAW.

I order my supplies from Florida, what are they gona do check all packages comeing into INDIANA to see if they have NICOTINE inside?
What the politicians really want is EVERYONE TO GO BACK SMOKING so they can collect taxes.

Again I am so pe-od I could blow a gasket!

Charly you may want to contact those vendors to see if they will still sell to you. I've contacted Nicoticket in Nebraska and they won't be selling to Indiana residents once this goes into affect. They have the facilities but not the security and I don't know if they are going to jump through all these hoops, time will tell but for now, no.

 

[four2109]

Yeah, and why would they bother with the different state tax calculations coming. That would be a nightmare. $0.?? per ml, mg nic per ml...
It looks more and more like a concerted effort by the states to doom the industry.

I hope people remember this when their politicians swear their support for small business. And vote accordingly.

 

[pennysmalls]

Hoosier I'm seeing a lot of confusion in regards to DIY. I know you said there will be a section that states DIY is NOT included like beer production etc... but I'm not seeing anything like that. I've seen several comments in different places that DIY will only be an offense if the DIY liquid is intended to be sold. Lots of people are talking about this bill online and there's lots of confusion at to what this bill actually does. Maybe something can be posted to Hoosier Vapers facebook page outlining what this bill does and give people some clarity.

 

[Hoosier]

Sorry, but law works a certain way and it isn't always easy for the average person to understand, so I'll try again.

If you look at the laws governing beer production in Indiana you will see 3 different definitions. Commercial, craft, and personal use. The law as written applies to commercial production. Craft has their own exemptions and specific other regulations. DIY (personal use) has its own exemptions and specified limits. So, 3 different defined producers and 3 different regulations.

HB 1432 has one definition of juice production, commercial. Thus all juice production is considered commercial under the law because nothing else is defined and nothing is excluded. If it did not include DIY then DIY would be defined and limits set to differentiate DIY from another type of production.

Since DIY is NOT defined, NOR specifically exempted, it is the same thing as commercial production as far as the agency is concerned and the only definition a court could rule on.

Just because it isn't included, doesn't mean the law doesn't apply. Laws on murder do not include redheaded step children, but if one murders one it is still murder. And if a redheaded step child murders a non-redheaded stepchild, the redhead is still guilty of murder.

Does that make it make sense now?

(I keep seeing the confusion on DIY for this law and it seems to orbit the fact that DIY isn't specified, but commercial is, but that just means that any juice production is commercial juice production in the eyes of the law. Common sense doesn't apply to laws, nor hidebound ATC agents.)

 

[Hoosier]

And the HV FB page has stated it applies to DIY, yet the confusion continues because some folks think they know more than us and our lawyers.

 

[pennysmalls]

That's helps tremendously Hoosier, thanks so much! There is a thread in the general forum about HB14crap and people are wondering about this, I'm going to link to your post in that thread.

 

[pennysmalls]

And the HV FB page has stated it applies to DIY, yet the confusion continues because some folks think they know more than us and our lawyers.

Yes, lots of confusion and one guy on FB is pissing me off with his "knowledge" after he read the bill. Your post should clear things up for everyone.

 

[Hoosier]

Good.

We've got some council members upset because of comments of FB by a few who are basically saying all the work we did was crap and a child could have done better.

I learned a long time ago that Johnny-come-lately's are not worth the effort to listen to. Trying to convince the folks who worked their butts off and have hurt feelings after reading that stuff is a different matter.

 

[charly1954]

Charly you may want to contact those vendors to see if they will still sell to you. I've contacted Nicoticket in Nebraska and they won't be selling to Indiana residents once this goes into affect. They have the facilities but not the security and I don't know if they are going to jump through all these hoops, time will tell but for now, no.

Looks like DIYer's are going to have to stock up on Nicotine, we'll have till July to get it. I normaly buy 60mg think I'll buy some 100mg. I vape 4-5mg so I do not use allot of Nic so it'll last me a long time stored in the freezer. VG I can buy at Walmart but not found anyplace that sells PG. Hate to have to order a gallon of PG from Wizard lab but I may have to.

My DIY cost me 8¢/ml or 80¢/10ml. If I ever have to buy juice after this law starts I wonder what it will cost with the tax added in, anyone have some figures on that? I think around here the cheapest is $4-5/10 ml.

 

[four2109]

I've never even seen unflavored nic in Indiana, much less 100 mg/ml nic. I've got 1200 ml now, but might order another liter. I figure by the time I go through it, I will be so ...... off that I will walk all together. And not back to BT. Indiana can kiss my ....

What's so stupid is that they could make up their lost revenue on some other undesireable plant matter, and they are after us. Just f'ng idiots. The same mentality that gave the state the nation's most recent AIDS epidemic. Tough guy bull.....

 

[kas122461]

I personally think that, if they think that they are going to make a lot of cash on taxes from this bill, that they will be very disappointed. I bet a lot of the vape shops in Indiana are just going to close, and no out of state shops are going to comply, maybe some of the larger chains might still be around, but Vaping in Indiana just won't be here much anymore.

KAS

 

[zoiDman]

I personally think that, if they think that they are going to make a lot of cash on taxes from this bill, that they will be very disappointed. I bet a lot of the vape shops in Indiana are just going to close, and no out of state shops are going to comply, maybe some of the larger chains might still be around, but Vaping in Indiana just won't be here much anymore.

KAS

This is what I find Baffling about Most of the Indiana Legislation.

It seems that All it does is Slam Indian Vapers/Vape Companies. While Reducing Indiana Revenue in the Process.

 

[pennysmalls]

What I want to know is how would Indiana prosecute an out of state vendor for selling to an Indiana resident without a permit? Is Indiana going to extradite offenders to Indiana so they can be prosecuted by an Indiana court? I don't think so. It's just a joke that Indiana lawmakers think they can go after people in other states for selling a product that can be sold anywhere in the US except Indiana. I really do think Indiana is heading for a slap down of astronomical proportions.

 

[kas122461]

I can't say that I have been to all the shops in Indiana, but the ones around Indianapolis that I have been to, mostly sell e-juice from out of state company's. They wont be able to sell them anymore unless that company complies, vape shops that don't sell juice will not last very long.

 

[pennysmalls]

Your right kas and that's what gets me. I don't think this stuff is enforceable as far as out of state vendors go but those out of state business's are going to want to keep their noses clean and follow the letter of the law because of this threat from Indiana, a threat that may be illegal to begin with. In any case, I do believe this is going to end up in court which is good but by the time it's settled it will be to late for the vape shops in Indiana.

 

[kas122461]

Your right kas and that's what gets me. I don't think this stuff is enforceable as far as out of state vendors go but those out of state business's are going to want to keep their noses clean and follow the letter of the law because of this threat from Indiana, a threat that may be illegal to begin with. In any case, I do believe this is going to end up in court which is good but by the time it's settled it will be to late for the vape shops in Indiana.

I really do hope it goes to court over this, it could be a good thing if it did, they can keep the taxes, and the safety things on the bottles, and the underage stuff, just delete everything else. Why do they always have to go way over board on regulations, I am kind of freaked out about this, I DIY and have been for about a year, not really very good at it but good enough for me. I have about 10 liters of 100MG/ML nic in the freezer, and because of that I am a criminal now? I have always been a law abiding citizen, and I am mixing this for myself, I have shared a small amount with a coworker, just to see what he thought of it. Now doing that I am breaking the law again! I just can't believe this.

KAS