The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[billherbst]

Ok I just ordered the ones from Express so we can clear the air since that will make us have them from all 3 vendors lol , gone to far to stop now hahah But can you confirm Ruyan from Express is like Pirate? The one from Bullcity is spot on.

I'm afraid my palate is too blown out right now to accurately respond. I'm a little under the weather, and my taster's wonky.

Memory tells me that Pirate RY4 isn't anything like my 3-year-old bottle of Ruyan 4 DIY flavoring from ecigexpress, but I'll wait to do a fair-minded comparison test until my taste buds return to normal.

 

[billherbst]

OK, my taste buds are back. Yesterday, every RY4 I tried---in fact, every juice I tried, no matter what flavor---tasted lousy to me. Today, juice tastes good again, and RY4s taste like RY4s should.

As for Passer's question (Does retail Pirate RY4 taste like DIY Ruyan flavor?), my answer is no, not to me.

I'm inclined to believe that the nearly three-year-old bottles I have of Tobacco Express Ruyan 4 and RY4 flavoring may contribute to our different judgments. Flavoring doesn't last forever, and I'm sure that flavoring companies change their formulas/recipes from time to time. I think it's possible that what I have on my hands is dead flavoring. I'll be interested to read of Passerbyeus' reaction when the fresh bottles he ordered from EcigExpress arrive.

I will admit that sometimes I think Passerbyeus and I must live in alternate universes. I respect his opinions regarding RY4s because I know how many he's tried and how dedicated he is to the unending quest to find a perfect RY4. That said, his reactions to particular RY4s often vary substantially from mine. That might not be the case if we were sitting in a room together vaping exactly the same liquids, using identical hardware. But we're not, so---as with so many discussions on an internet vaping forum such as ECF---we're left at the mercy of a thousand uncontrolled variables, some of which might be obvious while others could be invisible or otherwise unknown, but all of which potentially alter our experience.

Even if we could control the external variables, differences would still exist in our respective evaluation of specific RY4s, simply because we're not the same person.

And so it goes, the endless "you-say-poe-TAY-toe-while-I-say-poe-TAH-toe." Unlike the song, I don't wish to say, "Let's call the whole thing off." No, to some extent, vaping forums exist to allow us to share our experience, whether similar or different, and I'm comfortable with the notion that we're both correct---within our own universes.

 

[billherbst]

specs: The 30ml bottle of NLV4ya by NiteLiteVapor I purchased from PVLiquids.com (the primary vendor for NLV eliquids) during their recent 25% off sale contains a caramel-colored liquid at 6mg nic in NLV’s standard 65pg/35vg base. Nose of the liquid has a slight caramel scent. Testing was done by dripping into a 1.5 ohm Joyetech LR510 atomizer powered by a 1300mAh Vision Spinner clone set to 4.2 volts, and also by loading the juice into an old-school 1.7 ohm single-coil Smoktech Resurrector carto powered by a Buzz Pro VV set to 4.4 volts. Just to see what the difference might be using more modern hardware, I also sampled the juice in a Magma RDA with a 0.6 ohm build---a single 28-gauge horizontal spaced coil wicked with rayon---powered by an iPV Mini 30W regulated box mod set to 22.5 watts. While the vape was much more intense using the RDA dripper at considerably higher watts, the flavor profile was consistent across all three hardware platforms.

From the Descriptions Page about NLV juices on the PVLiquids web site:

“NiteLiteVapor's version of the ever popular RY4 which has been around for many years. This mix is
surrounded by caramels, vanillas, a lite unique tobacco, with a mild nutty exhale. New for May 2014.”​

Note: When NiteLiteVapor was a new vendor back in 2011, they offered a juice called Renegade RY4, which was included on The Big RY4 List. At some point, NLV decided that Renegade wasn’t really an RY4, so they dropped the RY4 designation from the juice's name. Renegade was subsequently removed from The Big RY4 List and placed in the Discontinued or No Longer Available group. This newer juice---NLV4ya---is NiteLite’s “official” RY4 offering. Having PIF’d most of my stock of older, high-nic juices in 2014, including a substantial stock of early NLV offerings, I no longer have any Renegade and so can’t compare it to the more recently formulated NLV4ya.

In both the choice of individual flavoring ingredients and overall flavor profile, RY4s can be balanced or imbalanced, sweet or savory, middle-of-the-road or eccentric. These qualities are not judgments, merely categories. A given RY4 is judged good or bad not because of the distinctions themselves, but instead based on of how that particular RY4 handles or fleshes out those designations in flavor and performance.

Like most Custom RY4s, NLV4ya relies less on overall balance than on the respective impact of its individual flavoring components---synthetic tobacco, caramel, and vanilla, plus whatever other additional flavoring elements may be used. In the case of NLV4ya, the individual flavorings seem happy with each other, so that even though the flavorings are tasted more individually than in singular union, harmony is maintained. NLV4ya is full-flavored, and distinctly more savory than sweet. This isn’t a dessert-style RY4. A certain sweetness is inherent to juices using caramel and vanilla, but the synthetic tobacco used in NLV4ya is strong enough to cut down the sweetness, leaving more of a savory end result. Does NLV4ya belong in the category group Stronger Tobacco? I’m not sure, but I think I’ll put it in that group because of the juice’s relatively low sweetness quotient.

Eccentricity is not easy for RY4s; they tend to come off much better when they conform to our expectation of how an RY4 should taste, a fact that is reflected in the relatively low grades I’ve given over the years to some distinctly unusual RY4s. Not that this is a rule---some relatively eccentric RY4s are very tasty. Pirate RY4 is an example of a Classic RY4 that pushes the traditional flavor envelope and (in my opinion) gets away with doing so quite nicely. NLV4ya is not afraid to deviate from the center of the RY4 bell curve. The interaction between the component flavorings produces a slightly idiosyncratic flavor profile , but I find it mostly pleasing rather than off-putting. Of course, NLV4ya is a Custom (or “modern”) RY4, so some experimentation with the standard RY4 flavor profile is permitted and not, in itself, unusual.

I’d stop short of calling NLV4ya “delicious.” I find it more interesting and compelling than scrumptious. Perhaps “distinctive” is the best word to describe my reaction. This is an RY4 that exists on its own terms, and does so effectively. It remains tasty and enjoyable without ever straying into the hinterlands of weirdness. How NLV4ya will fare for long-term vaping potential, I don't yet know. Time will tell.

When you want an RY4 that’s a little different but still good and definitely worth trying, NLV4ya might be just what the doctor ordered.

NiteLiteVapor NLV4ya grade: B
link to purchase: NLV Liquids from pvliquids.com

 

[passerbyeus]

Ok the verdict is in .....Ruyan SC from BullCity is not the same as Ruyan (a darker, richer flavor) from Ecigexpress, very different , and not to muddy the waters, Ruyan from BullCity is closer to Ecigexpress RY4 but there is a color difference. All of these flavors are in the same profile but different in their own ways with color and taste.

 

[billherbst]

Ok the verdict is in .....Ruyan SC from BullCity is not the same as Ruyan (a darker, richer flavor) from Ecigexpress, very different , and not to muddy the waters, Ruyan from BullCity is closer to Ecigexpress RY4 but there is a color difference. All of these flavors are in the same profile but different in their own ways with color and taste.

Verrrrrry interesting...

 

[Bookworm]

Interesting is a good word for NLV4Ya. I don't love it as much as my normal RY4s, but I do find myself vaping it every few days for a nice change up. I haven't had it very long, and I'm not sure if it will be a reorder, but it's definitely an interesting vape.

 

[billherbst]

Interesting is a good word for NLV4Ya. I don't love it as much as my normal RY4s, but I do find myself vaping it every few days for a nice change up. I haven't had it very long, and I'm not sure if it will be a reorder, but it's definitely an interesting vape.

Yesterday I found a little one-dram dropper bottle (I used those years ago to refill cartos) containing NLV Renegade RY4. I atty-dripped a little---not much; I can't handle 24mg nic anymore. The instant buzz makes me dizzy and a little queasy. Funny how I used 24mg nic for the first three years of my vaping, but once I cut back to 18mg a little over a year ago, the bottom fell out pretty quickly. Now I vape mostly 3-6mg. Some of the reason is more powerful hardware---RDAs/RTAs and higher-wattage PVs---but a lot of it is just that my brain no longer needs or wants the stimulation.

Anyway, both Renegade and NLV4ya are interesting juices. Lots of flavor, although I don't know what NLV was shooting for with their flavor profiles. I don't regard either of them as great RY4s. OK, but nothing to write home about.

I may vape some NLV4ya from time to time, but mostly when I'm comparing RY4s head-to-head. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the 30ml bottle I bought during the recent PVLiquids sale will die of old age before it gets consumed by vaping. That's OK---about 96% of the retail RY4s in my stash are headed for Juice Alzheimer's. I just chalk it up to the cost of doing this thread. LOL.

 

[clnire]

For which many of us are thankful Bill.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Hi, I would just like to thank billherbst for the great work in this thread. I am not usually a tobacco vaper and haven't had a ry4 vape since I first started vaping (it was definitely a custom ry4).
However because of this thread I decided to try pirate ry4 and it's really delicious. Very nice juice.
It's the first commercial juice I have enjoyed in a long time, as I normally use my DIY juice.
This will now lead to a new project for my DIY.
So thanks for the great round ups and expert analysis.

 

[billherbst]

Hi, I would just like to thank billherbst for the great work in this thread. I am not usually a tobacco vaper and haven't had a ry4 vape since I first started vaping (it was definitely a custom ry4).
However because of this thread I decided to try pirate ry4 and it's really delicious. Very nice juice.
It's the first commercial juice I have enjoyed in a long time, as I normally use my DIY juice.
This will now lead to a new project for my DIY.
So thanks for the great round ups and expert analysis.

Jason,

Frankly, I'm shocked by how much I like Pirate RY4. I haven't enjoyed a retail RY4 this much in a long time. Although it's Chinese and would typically be considered a Classic RY4, the flavor profile is really quite unique. Perhaps we should classify it as a Custom RY4 instead.

For the past year or so, I've vaped mostly NET-based RY4s or my own DIY RY4s (using either synthetic tobacco flavorings or my homemade macerated natural tobacco extracts) , so it's almost odd to find myself vaping a retail Chinese eliquid so often, especially a brand that almost no one's ever heard of. I keep thinking that I'll tire of Pirate RY4 soon, but it hasn't happened yet. The flavor is admittedly a bit unusual, but man, oh man, it's so tasty!

That reminds me, I need to order another 50ml bottle from Fasttech. I vape very low nicotine these days, so I'll buy it in zero nic, then add my own 100mg/ml nic to make small batches of 3mg nic Pirate RY4 for my RDA drippers and sub-ohm tanks/RTAs, and 6-8 mg for older-style clearos. (To make a 10ml bottle of 3mg nic takes only 6 drops of 100mg/ml liquid nic.)

Fasttech is now charging an extra $1.62 to ship a single 50ml bottle of zero-nic Pirate RY4. Oddly enough, the extra shipping charge goes down to only $0.94 if I order three 50ml bottles, plus I get a discount for three. So that's what I just did. In a month, I'll have enough Pirate RY4 to last me forever.

 

[TriStar]

Jason,

Frankly, I'm shocked by how much I like Pirate RY4. I haven't enjoyed a retail RY4 this much in a long time. Although it's Chinese and would typically be considered a Classic RY4, the flavor profile is really quite unique. Perhaps we should classify it as a Custom RY4 instead.

For the past year or so, I've vaped mostly NET-based RY4s or my own DIY RY4s (using either synthetic tobacco flavorings or my homemade macerated natural tobacco extracts) , so it's almost odd to find myself vaping a retail Chinese eliquid so often, especially a brand that almost no one's ever heard of. I keep thinking that I'll tire of Pirate RY4 soon, but it hasn't happened yet. The flavor is admittedly a bit unusual, but man, oh man, it's so tasty!

That reminds me, I need to order another 50ml bottle from Fasttech. I vape very low nicotine these days, so I'll buy it in zero nic, then add my own 100mg/ml nic to make small batches of 3mg nic Pirate RY4 for my RDA drippers and sub-ohm tanks/RTAs, and 6-8 mg for older-style clearos. (To make a 10ml bottle of 3mg nic takes only 6 drops of 100mg/ml liquid nic.)

Fasttech is now charging an extra $1.62 to ship a single 50ml bottle of zero-nic Pirate RY4. Oddly enough, the extra shipping charge goes down to only $0.94 if I order three 50ml bottles, plus I get a discount for three. So that's what I just did. In a month, I'll have enough Pirate RY4 to last me forever.

Thanks for the input, Bill. I typically would never even consider purchasing a Chinese-made e-liquid, but I respect your opinion on the matter immensely. I've been looking for a good RY4 as I feel I've never truly experienced one good enough to justify the long running hype, and I'll certainly be looking into Pirate RY4.

Cheers

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Butterfly's Custom Juices' RY4 is currently 50% Off.

 

[clnire]

Butterfly's Custom Juices' RY4 is currently 50% Off.

No code needed.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Dekang RY4 - 50% off of already discounted prices at Analog Alternative...'Final Reduction Sale.'
Coupon code 'HALFOFF' makes for a 50ml bottle at $3.50.

 

[billherbst]

Over my first three years of vaping, I used juices with 24mg nic. My brain needed the buzz and throat hit that were lost when I stopped smoking. In my fourth year, I went down to 18mg for about six months, and then 12mg. Now, in my fifth year, my nic requirements have gone down again. I currently vape 3-6mg, depending on the hardware I'm using. For lower wattage atties and tanks where I inhale mouth-to-lung, I can handle 6mg, sometimes even 8-9mg in a pinch. For higher wattage, sub-ohm vaping, where I direct-lung inhale, 3mg is my max, literally the most I can handle.

My nic reduction hasn't been intentional. It's simply the natural result of time passing and more powerful vaping hardware.

Along the way of these changes, I've tried to keep apace with the seemingly endless task of updating my huge stash of RY4s, at least the 50-or-so retail RY4s that I might actually vape at some point. I've already given away or thrown out many of the other 110 retail RY4s I had that were either 24mg or 18mg nic, as I simply cannot handle high nic levels anymore. Vaping those juices makes me dizzy, and sometimes even nauseous. Clearly, my many decades as a nicotine-dependent addict are finally (and rapidly) coming to a close.

I DIY 95% of my juices these days. The few retail juices I continue to buy and keep in stock are always ordered in zero nic if possible. Instead, I prefer to add my own liquid nic. Altering a juice from zero to 3mg nic takes so little 100mg/ml liquid nic that it's only about a 3% dilution, and---having five liters of 100mg/ml liquid nic in my freezer---it makes more sense to add my own nic rather than pay a vendor to do so.

Today I decided to order a new 30ml bottle in zero nic of QuickNicJuice's wonderful natural-tobacco custom RY4, ouR whY qu4tro, to replace the half-bottle I have left from 2013 that's 18mg.

Turns out that ouR whY qu4tro is one of a sizable number of juices that QuickNic has labeled "soon-to-be-discontinued" and is closing out. No reasons were given on-site, but I presume this shake-up in QuickNic's juice lines to be the result of one or more of three issues: sales analyses (culling the steers from the economic herd), growing health concerns (over eliquid ingredients), and/or anticipated coming FDA regulations (i.e., expensive lab testing).

So, this typically long-winded post is my way of offering a friendly heads-up: If you're a fan of QnJ ouR whY qu4tro, stock up now, as that terrific eliquid will soon be relegated to the retail RY4 graveyard, along with other previously-deceased notables, such as BWB RY4 and AVE Raf-a-licious. Oh well, loss is an inevitable part of love.

 

[billherbst]

A follow-up to my last post about QuickNic's ouR whY qu4tro.

When I placed my order online last Friday, I wrote in the comments section that, although I understood the inevitability of change, I was sad to see such a terrific juice and one of the very best ever natural tobacco RY4s come to the end of its life.

My order arrived today. On the receipt in the package was a hand-written note from the QuickNic staffer who processed the order. She said QuickNic was reluctantly discontinuing most of its natural tobacco eliquids because of anticipated FDA regulations, but that ouR whY qu4tro would be offered and available for as long as possible.

ouR whY qu4tro is a reverse-steeper. Like Beaujolais wine, it's best when fresh and doesn't age well. It's not "bad" when older, but it loses much of its vitality, the "aliveness" of flavors that make it so special. So, I wasted no time in loading up a tank from my freshly mixed, brand-new bottle of ouR whY. Oh man, it's wonderful! What a fantastic natural tobacco RY4! Every component sings, and the harmony of tobacco, caramel, and vanilla is note perfect.

Over the four years of this thread, I vaped and reviewed so many RY4s---more than 170 retail RY4s and another 30 DIY RY4s---that I did suffer some serious RY4 burn-out. Over the past year and a half, my RY4 consumption is way down from what it was in 2011-2013. Still, this fresh stock of ouR whY qu4tro is so great that I intend to put a major dent in the 30ml bottle over the next weeks.

If you're an RY4 fan who likes natural tobacco, I urge you to order a bottle of ouR whY qu4tro before it's gone forever.

 

[Jerms]

Bill, when did you start direct to lung inhaling? Was it awkward at first but then preferable after adjusting? I've just switched to mainly 6mg nic which still works fine for mouth-to-lung, but as part of a Vaping Watch sale I'm receiving two bottles of 3mg juices for free that I'm guessing I'll need to direct hit for any throat hit.

I have RDAs that I can open up the airflow for lung hits. Wondering if the set-up of a 1 ohm coil on a mech will provide enough heat for that. Think I should build a coil with lower resistance specifically for that?

One reason I'm hesitant to get into lung hits is I imagine juice consumption skyrockets. As a retail juice buyer I don't really want to up my consumption too much for financial reasons.

 

[billherbst]

Bill, when did you start direct to lung inhaling? Was it awkward at first but then preferable after adjusting? I've just switched to mainly 6mg nic which still works fine for mouth-to-lung, but as part of a Vaping Watch sale I'm receiving two bottles of 3mg juices for free that I'm guessing I'll need to direct hit for any throat hit.

I have RDAs that I can open up the airflow for lung hits. Wondering if the set-up of a 1 ohm coil on a mech will provide enough heat for that. Think I should build a coil with lower resistance specifically for that?

One reason I'm hesitant to get into lung hits is I imagine juice consumption skyrockets. As a retail juice buyer I don't really want to up my consumption too much for financial reasons.

Jerms,

MTL (mouth-to-lung) always felt natural to me, and vaping higher nicotine in my early years of vaping kept direct-lung inhaling out of the question. Direct-lunging became possible for me only after my nicotine levels collapsed over the past two years. Now I vape 3mg nic, and direct-lung inhaling is OK. Even so, I often slipstream---i.e., I don't completely seal my lips around the drip tip so that outside air rushes in with the draw, "diluting" the vapor somewhat. I still get big clouds, but my lungs handle the mixed air/vapor better.

I don't vape really high wattage or super sub-ohm. For instance, I have four Kanger Subtank Nanos. I rebuild the factory heads to be about 1.0-1.3 ohms and vape them at all about 13-15 watts, but I still direct-lung inhale quite happily and get ample vapor (not competition-level clouds, but way, way more than mouth-to-lung inhaling. The highest wattage I currently use is 30 watts with my Magma RDAs (with which I use MTL). In other words, I think that direct-inhaling is entirely about air flow and doesn't require low resistance or high wattage. In fact, the only time I do the kind of deep and long direct-lung inhales that the kids on YouTube vids do is when I'm vaping at low wattage (under 20) and minimal nic (1-3mg).

The set-up you mentioned---a 1 ohm build (single-coil?) on a mech will provide ample heat for direct-lung inhales, assuming you can get sufficient air flow. No need to sub-ohm at all.

I still vape mouth-to-lung with some clearos and tanks. I don't know how others feel, but with direct-lung inhaling, I get flavor only on the exhale, while MTL gives multiple "phases" of flavor---first when the vapor is held in the mouth, then again when it's inhaled into the lungs, and a third time during exhale. To me, MTL and direct-lung are different vaping universes and not comparable. They're both good, but vastly different.

To my way of thinking, dramatically-increased juice consumption is a function of sub-ohm/multi-coil/high wattage vaping rather than method of inhaling. I don't pay much attention to juice consumption, however, since I DIY 95% of my juices. Making more juice is quick, easy, and very inexpensive. (The only problem there is that buying flavorings has replaced buying juices. LOL.)

 

[Jerms]

Thanks for the detailed response Bill.

I just opened up the airflow on my Origen V2 all the way (two airholes wide open, just one coil) for some lung jobbers of Suicide Bunny's The O.B. Pretty decent clouds, especially if I let it heat up a bit before inhaling. Wish I had a variable device to play with wattage.

Very different flavor experience. Flavor is more intense, but like you said it's just on the exhale. Will definitely be doable with the 3mg I'll receive, but think I'll stick with MTL for most of my 6mg. I went from 12mg to 6mg nic so I could vape more without buzzing, and I'm buzzing now! It's an option for those times I need a shot of nic.

 

[billherbst]

Thanks for the detailed response Bill.

I just opened up the airflow on my Origen V2 all the way (two airholes wide open, just one coil) for some lung jobbers of Suicide Bunny's The O.B. Pretty decent clouds, especially if I let it heat up a bit before inhaling. Wish I had a variable device to play with wattage.

Very different flavor experience. Flavor is more intense, but like you said it's just on the exhale. Will definitely be doable with the 3mg I'll receive, but think I'll stick with MTL for most of my 6mg. I went from 12mg to 6mg nic so I could vape more without buzzing, and I'm buzzing now! It's an option for those times I need a shot of nic.

Jerms,

I have a whole stable of inexpensive rebuildable dripper clones (mostly from fasttech), including some newer ones, such as a Dark Horse and Derringer, but the only RDAs I keep in service are three Origen V2s and three Magmas, since I love their larger capacity deep juice wells and appreciate that they work beautifully with either single- or dual-coil builds. I use standard horizontal coils in my Magmas, but I mount my Origen coils vertically, with one longer wick in the well and the other clipped off at the top of the coil. I don't do any fancy builds---no twisted, Clapton, or ribbon wire stuff, and I don't use fat wire (no 22 or 24 gauge). My builds are always simple A-1 Kanthal macro or spaced coils, 26-29 gauge, ranging from 0.5-1.3 ohms.

Even my very best clone tanks---four Taifun GT-Ts for MTL, and two SilverPlays, a FreeMax Starre with factory heads, and a Cthulhu for direct-lung---can't match the superb flavor provided by my Origen V2s and Magma RDAs. Dripping is inconvenient and messy, but it remains the best vape for pure flavor, at least in my experience.

As much as I love my Origens and Magmas, however, I don't regard either RDA in stock mode as well-suited to direct-lung inhaling---it's possible, but far from ideal. Even fully open, their air intake holes just aren't big enough. If I wanted to direct-lung them, I'd drill out the largest holes to at least double their stock size. I'm not sure that would be possible on the Magmas, as the stock holes are positioned near a lip. I'd need a drill press and a powerful clamp to reposition the larger holes, and I don't have that kind of machine shop set-up. All I've got is a dremel, some titanium bits, and a desk clamp. The Origen V2 air holes are positioned so that they could be drilled out easily, however, allowing two options: a tighter-draw smaller-hole alignment for MTL and a wide-open-draw alignment for direct-lung. I might even give that a go, just to see what the vape is like with a wide-open draw cranked up to 50 watts (or more).

Up until now, I've had no urge to vape at 50-80 watts (the most I've ever tried is 40 watts), but then I never thought I'd direct-lung inhale, and now I do that about half my vaping time, so who knows?