Titanium wire, vaping and safety

[TheBloke]

Is it Grade 1 Titanium that you used? I've seen Titanium alloy but it's resistance is far from grade1 Ti. And it's coefficient I suppose. I'm waiting for my Infinite 60W and I want to get into Ti as soon as it arrives.

Sorry forgot to reply, yes I am using Grade 1 Titanium - purchased from Zivipf in Germany.

That's great that you'll soon have the Infinite!

I haven't had a chance to write up more details today, but I have been doing more testing. Only change so far is that I have increased the Nickel Purity value from 35 to 42 on my current build. I'm still pretty sure that 35 sets a coefficient of 0.0035 (ie the 'right' value), but I'm finding 42 a better vape - it was hitting Temp Protection a bit too early at 35.

This could very well vary with atty and I've still only properly tested one. I have been doing more testing tonight and will write it up tomorrow.

I also started testing Stainless Steel (SS317L) which I am using right now, with Nickel Purity set to 10 (ie coefficient of 0.001 I believe.) This works very well - before, SS was unusable on any TC mod, it would burn cotton at any temperature (or at least any temperature that was useful.)

Now, set to 420°F it creates some blackness on the cotton but does not ignite it. For vaping, I have the temp set to 380°F ie about a 40° offset.

So it's not quite perfect - it still requires a temp offset as well as setting NP to its lowest value - but it's a small offset and it's usable.

And I really like the wire - so far, super easy to handle; way stronger than Ni200, way less springy than Titanium, and more malleable than Kanthal! Although I have so far only tried 25 gauge which is thick and so automatically a bit easier to handle.

I did 8 spaced coils, which came out to 0.44 resistance. I didn't try micro yet as I wasn't sure about the oxidising and shorts and so on. Will test that tomorrow.

Exciting times!

PS. I am ordering some Resistherm NiFe30 at the ridiculous price of €13/10m. This is the new wire that Dicodes are introducing. I figure if I'm going to test Ti and SS I may as well complete the set and try this latest wire that is apparently especially suited for TC. I don't know how it's specially suited, but we will see I do know that its coefficient is 0.0032 so slightly lower than Ti.

Perhaps it's meant to be as easy/strong/temp resistant as Kanthal, but usable for TC. Kanthal is FeCrAl (Iron, Chrome, Aluminium) and this new wire is Nickel and Iron, so I guess it does have elements of both. Hopefully they have chosen it because it's also very safe

I'm having some trouble ordering it because it's only available from one store, in Germany, and they won't ship to the UK. They have a UK shop but they won't get the wire for another 10 days. I have asked them if they could get it to me sooner and I will find out tomorrow.

 

[tchavei]

With all the wuss about wire torching and pulsing, we better lay low a little while big guys discuss all the implications.

Personally I can make losely, ugly spaced coils out of Ti without applying heat but it's nerve wrecking. Much easier to use a small torch (which now I'm told is worse than dry pulsing). Gee, one comment and half my hobby is destroyed.

What a way to start the week

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[NotableVirtues]

Dry burning = ti dioxide for TI; Exposure limits are:

Exposure Limits: TWA: 15 (mg/m3) from OSHA (PEL) [United States] Inhalation Total. TWA: 10 (mg/m3) from ACGIH (TLV) [United States] Inhalation Total. TWA: 4 [United Kingdom (UK)] Inhalation Respirable. TWA: 10 [United Kingdom (UK)] Inhalation Total.

I think this is for the people who manufacture it though and I am not certain how much we can get vaping, but again it would have to be dry burning all the time.

 

[TheBloke]

With all the wuss about wire torching and pulsing, we better lay low a little while big guys discuss all the implications.

Personally I can make losely, ugly spaced coils out of Ti without applying heat but it's nerve wrecking. Much easier to use a small torch (which now I'm told is worse than dry pulsing). Gee, one comment and half my hobby is destroyed.

What a way to start the week

I think this is an awesome week I know the Dr stuff was initially alarming, but quite frankly I don't think we are any different to how we were before we heard of it.

We have one medical Dr making unsubstantiated claims about metal. We have at least one Dr of metallurgy saying that this does not match anything he understands about metal.

Frankly I know which Dr whose prescription I will be filling, at least until more info is in.

Further, the torching you are doing is not the uncontrolled 1000 degree burns that the MD Dr was talking about. You're already extremely careful, and you have an easy colour chart to guide you in that care. You're heating it a few hundred degrees, once, to make it more malleable. Not an uncontrolled burn repeatedly on the same coil.

And again, the Dr of Metal said there is no reason to think that's problematic.

I believe we're "as you were" until further notice.

If you do want to diversify, get yourself a mod with the new Infinite chip, available for $50 - $65 from China - which is so cheap that I believe it's a crime not to get one - and also get some SS317L wire. No colour changes, no TiO2 or whatever it's called, and anyway no need to torch it in the first place because it's a joy to work with. Guess who sells it? Crazy Wire £3/10m in various sizes. Though their sister company Vape Atomizer Mesh has a greater range of gauges. EDIT: Oh but so do Zivipf Although they only have SS316, not SS317, and someone I spoke to on this forum said he preferred 317 though I can't now remember why. I can dig up details.

(Another alternative to the Infinite mods is the new Dicodes', which may be better - they might allow a lower coefficient value for example - but are also 5x the price. Oh and they're one-button tubes...)

And even if you don't want to try SS, get a mod with the Infinite chip anyway for your Ti vapes

 

[NotableVirtues]

I think this is an awesome week I know the Dr stuff was initially alarming, but quite frankly I don't think we are any different to how we were before we heard of it.

We have one medical Dr making unsubstantiated claims about metal. We have at least one Dr of metallurgy saying that this does not match anything he understands about metal.

Frankly I know which Dr whose prescription I will be filling, at least until more info is in.

Further, the torching you are doing is not the uncontrolled 1000 degree burns that the MD Dr was talking about. You're already extremely careful, and you have an easy colour chart to guide you in that care. You're heating it a few hundred degrees, once, to make it more malleable. Not an uncontrolled burn repeatedly on the same coil.

And again, the Dr of Metal said there is no reason to think that's problematic.

I believe we're "as you were" until further notice.

If you do want to diversify, get yourself a mod with the new Infinite chip, available for $50 - $65 from China - which is so cheap that I believe it's a crime not to get one - and also get some SS317L wire. No colour changes, and TiO2 or whatever it's called, no need to torch it in the first place because it's a joy to work with. Guess who sells it? Crazy Wire £3/10m in various sizes. Though their sister company Vape Atomizer Mesh has a greater range of gauges.

(Another alternative to the Infinite mods is the new Dicodes', which may be better - they might allow a lower coefficient value for example - but are also 5x the price. Oh and they're one-button tubes...)

Congrats on the video, looking forward to watching. Long video, bet it has a ton of info. Thanks!

 

[tchavei]

Lol, you sound like a sales man [emoji14] [emoji14]

Now seriously, what mods come with that new infinite chip?

I was considering a rugged tp mod for the summer when I'm at the beach or boat. My self made mini hana doesn't classify as rugged

Regarding the rest, I hope you're right. I don't know why this hit me so hard. I guess it's the hobby aspect of vaping. I loved building, playing with new materials and all that besides just facing this as a way to stay away from smokes.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[druckle]

Sorry forgot to reply, yes I am using Grade 1 Titanium - purchased from Zivipf in Germany.

That's great that you'll soon have the Infinite!

I haven't had a chance to write up more details today, but I have been doing more testing. Only change so far is that I have increased the Nickel Purity value from 35 to 42 on my current build. I'm still pretty sure that 35 sets a coefficient of 0.0035 (ie the 'right' value), but I'm finding 42 a better vape - it was hitting Temp Protection a bit too early at 35.

This could very well vary with atty and I've still only properly tested one. I have been doing more testing tonight and will write it up tomorrow.

I also started testing Stainless Steel (SS317L) which I am using right now, with Nickel Purity set to 10 (ie coefficient of 0.001 I believe.) This works very well - before, SS was unusable on any TC mod, it would burn cotton at any temperature (or at least any temperature that was useful.)

Now, set to 420°F it creates some blackness on the cotton but does not ignite it. For vaping, I have the temp set to 380°F ie about a 40° offset.

So it's not quite perfect - it still requires a temp offset as well as setting NP to its lowest value - but it's a small offset and it's usable.

And I really like the wire - so far, super easy to handle; way stronger than Ni200, way less springy than Titanium, and more malleable than Kanthal! Although I have so far only tried 25 gauge which is thick and so automatically a bit easier to handle.

I did 8 spaced coils, which came out to 0.44 resistance. I didn't try micro yet as I wasn't sure about the oxidising and shorts and so on. Will test that tomorrow.

Exciting times!

PS. I am ordering some Resistherm NiFe30 at the ridiculous price of €13/10m. This is the new wire that Dicodes are introducing. I figure if I'm going to test Ti and SS I may as well complete the set and try this latest wire that is apparently especially suited for TC. I don't know how it's specially suited, but we will see I do know that its coefficient is 0.0032 so slightly lower than Ti.

Perhaps it's meant to be as easy/strong/temp resistant as Kanthal, but usable for TC. Kanthal is FeCrAl (Iron, Chrome, Aluminium) and this new wire is Nickel and Iron, so I guess it does have elements of both. Hopefully they have chosen it because it's also very safe

I'm having some trouble ordering it because it's only available from one store, in Germany, and they won't ship to the UK. They have a UK shop but they won't get the wire for another 10 days. I have asked them if they could get it to me sooner and I will find out tomorrow.

Thanks TheBloke

It's interesting (although not really unexpected I guess) that a lot of the wires folks are investigating for vaping are compositions that were originally developed for oxidation resistant coatings for gas turbine engine turbine blades. I just started a little search on Resistherm NiFe30 and there is a lot of data out there on various properties. I think there is going to be a lot of interesting investigation in the next few weeks for vapers to chew on.

Duane

 

[TheBloke]

Lol, you sound like a sales man [emoji14] [emoji14]

Now seriously, what mods come with that new infinite chip?

I was considering a rugged tp mod for the summer when I'm at the beach or boat. My self made mini hana doesn't classify as rugged

Regarding the rest, I hope you're right. I don't know why this hit me so hard. I guess it's the hobby aspect of vaping. I loved building, playing with new materials and all that besides just facing this as a way to stay away from smokes.

I AM a salesman. I sell DREAMS, and JOY - the dream and joy of vaping You're absolutely right, it is a hobby - it's far far more than smoking. I laughed in a thread yesterday pointing out that sometimes I realise I haven't taken a vape in over an hour because I've been so engrossed in fiddling with some vape hardware or coiling or writing about vaping or whatever

I don't even get great flavour - my taste buds suck compared to many/most people. What I get is OK. And I'm not in love with clouds - I like good vapour production, but don't care about fogging up the room. But all of it together, all the experimentation, the research, the playing with new hardware, the playing with new wires, mixing juices, and talking about it all with you other obsessed people, that's what makes it special.

Anyway. The new Infinite chips are in the following mods:

• Infinite VF (Vapor Flask clone) at 40, 50, 60W - FastTech - dual 18650, spring loaded 510
  • this is what I have, unfortunately the 50W not 60W but no big deal
• Geeco Zero clone at 60W (link to ECF thread, inc video reviews and one Chinese vendor selling it; can also buy direct from Geeco; other vendors may now be around) - single 18650, adjustable 510 (not spring)
• Zero clones at 60W - unknown manufacturer, maybe Infinite again - single 18650, adjustable 510 (not spring)
  
• VS rDNA clones, 40-60W (I think Infinite is manufacturer) - single 18650, spring loaded 510

Where the mods are available in 40W and 50W as well, the 60W is recommended - usually the price difference is tiny, so no point getting less even though 50W is probably enough for TC (I am usually at <40W even.)

No doubt others will be released in the near future.

I don't know which of those would be the most rugged. I can say the Flask is a great mod - a solid chunk of metal, looks awesome, great battery life from dual 18650s (but can take one as well to save weight/batteries). Won't necessarily survive a lot of beating, but maybe more than some as there's a lot of metal to take the bangs (as long as you don't care about appearance.)

The only really 'rugged' mod I can think of is the Invader Mini but that's not got Nickel Purity and has a few quirks and disadvantages.

 

[tchavei]

I AM a salesman. I sell DREAMS, and JOY - the dream and joy of vaping You're absolutely right, it is a hobby - it's far far more than smoking. I laughed in a thread yesterday pointing out that sometimes I realise I haven't taken a vape in over an hour because I've been so engrossed in fiddling with some vape hardware or coiling or writing about vaping or whatever

I don't even get great flavour - my taste buds suck compared to many/most people. What I get is OK. And I'm not in love with clouds - I like good vapour production, but don't care about fogging up the room. But all of it together, all the experimentation, the research, the playing with new hardware, the playing with new wires, mixing juices, and talking about it all with you other obsessed people, that's what makes it special.

Anyway. The new Infinite chips are in the following mods:

• Infinite VF (Vapor Flask clone) at 40, 50, 60W - FastTech - dual 18650, spring loaded 510
  • this is what I have, unfortunately the 50W not 60W but no big deal
• Geeco Zero clone at 60W (link to ECF thread, inc video reviews and one Chinese vendor selling it; can also buy direct from Geeco; other vendors may now be around) - single 18650, adjustable 510 (not spring)
• Zero clones at 60W - unknown manufacturer, maybe Infinite again - single 18650, adjustable 510 (not spring)
  
• VS rDNA clones, 40-60W (I think Infinite is manufacturer) - single 18650, spring loaded 510

Where the mods are available in 40W and 50W as well, the 60W is recommended - usually the price difference is tiny, so no point getting less even though 50W is probably enough for TC (I am usually at <40W even.)

No doubt others will be released in the near future.

I don't know which of those would be the most rugged. I can say the Flask is a great mod - a solid chunk of metal, looks awesome, great battery life from dual 18650s (but can take one as well to save weight/batteries). Won't necessarily survive a lot of beating, but maybe more than some as there's a lot of metal to take the bangs (as long as you don't care about appearance.)

The only really 'rugged' mod I can think of is the Invader Mini but that's not got Nickel Purity and has a few quirks and disadvantages.

Thanks for the info bloke

Yeah, I forget to vape too when I'm trying to solve a problem like this:

That's only a test mod but I want to install that awesome button in my mini and there is almost no freaking space. Why do I love matchbox sized mods?

George pointed me to the invader mini. It's well rugged but as you said, has done quirks. I'm going to check out your suggestions. Thank you.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[Rossum]

get a mod with the Infinite chip anyway for your Ti vapes

Is anyone selling just the board? If the mod isn't a bottom feeder, I'm not interested.

 

[druckle]

Is anyone selling just the board? If the mod isn't a bottom feeder, I'm not interested.

Rosum

I've been thinking about exploring bottom feeders. I'm just wondering if you have any suggestions for atomizers based on your experience. I'm all about flavor. Clouds don't mean much to me.

Duane

 

[Rossum]

How airy a vape do you like? MTL or direct lung?

 

[druckle]

How airy a vape do you like? MTL or direct lung?

I prefer mouth to lung mostly.

 

[awsum140]

Tony, I have an Invader Mini and really like it, tough as nails! It has "forgotten" settings a few times, but it's no big deal unless a weak hit drives you over the edge, LOL. I just drilled out all the air holes in a Fogger V6 for it and it is performing really well.

 

[TheBloke]

Is anyone selling just the board? If the mod isn't a bottom feeder, I'm not interested.

The mod is not a bottom feeder Not seen the board available on its own yet, but it's possible that will happen - the Rayn DNA40 clone board found in the Waidea/Kangxin/Heatvape mods is now available on its own.

The cheapest mod available with the Infinite is $47 (VS rDNA clone from FastTech), which is still less than the price of a genuine DNA 40 chip (and only $15 more than the inferior Rayn board is being sold for on its own), so you could get the mod and remove the board and keep the chassis/buttons/wires as spare parts.

Or you could buy the flask and turn it into a Squonk, where the bottle/atty lives in the second battery tube - as @dwcraig1 has done: search the massive VF Clone thread for pictures and details on what he did.

Or, Waidea have recently announced they are releasing a Squonk clone. The current expectation is that it would use the Rayn board, but I've asked Nicole Lea, who has a good relationship with them, to ask them to use the better Infinite board. No idea if they will, but it's not impossible.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Just a quick update: remember that compressed coil I did a week or so ago? Still at 0.41 Ohms, still vaping great.

Compressed definitely works without issues on Ti.

Now, discussing compressed vs spaced is a whole different game (which I'm not going to enter) but for all purposes, compressed does work without shorting or bouncing resistance.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Hi Tony,
If the wire has a non-conductive oxide layer that permits touching coils, why doesn't the same layer prevent contact with the atty posts/terminals. It bugs me!!
Cheers
Steve

 

[awsum140]

The simple answer there is that no oxygen can get to the wire, under the screws, to permit oxidation to occur.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

The simple answer there is that no oxygen can get to the wire, under the screws, to permit oxidation to occur.

It is already oxidized. See some of my earlier posts!

 

[awsum140]

Yes, but the abrasive action of the screw tightening removes that oxidation at the contact area and the contact area remains oxygen tight, for all intents and purposes, preventing re-oxidation. Thin about a copper wire when you replace a switch or receptacle and how clean and shiny the wire is where it was under the screw head and clamped tightly.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

It is already oxidized. See some of my earlier posts!

In any case screwing down would not exclude O2!!!