we need laws. regulation..

[Racehorse]

how does one account for each and every one.

gosh, it was pretty simple for me. I went to UAMS, hooked up with the expert allergy / immunology team there, as well as an ancillary dermatologist, and using science, we were able to nail it down. Food, environmental, metals, skin products, household cleaners.

Not hard at all. Just a bit time consuming.

It is quite easy for me to just avoid certain things.

The scenario with vaping as it stands, as a consumer, it appears I am not entitled to know what the things are in the juice I vape, nor some of the materials or mystery metals etc. in the PRC manufactured items. Therefore, I can't seek a remedy. someone would have to actually just give up vaping by relying on "guess work". which would be a shame.

And also, let me be clear about this: far more people have sensitivities and allergies than they realize, it's just not something they know about. There are a lot of things like headaches, migraines, acne, aching joints and muscles, hair thinning....tinnitus.....gosh, I can come up with 100 symtoms, that people who learned about the effect of certain things on their immune systems have been cured of. Things they just thought they had to live with because nobody ever sent them to a good immunologist . Instead, they will be given pills and potions and spend their lives suffering needlessly, lacking a real diagnosis.

So I completely disagree with you about the small sample size. Just because you are not going into anaphalactic shock doesn't mean you aren't having serious allergic issues.

 

[TaketheRedPill]

e-cig shops/juice bars may add extra nicotine to a prepackaged or house-brand lower nicotine eliquid if requested to by the customer, or to maintain inventory, or to add extra flavoring, that's not unusual. There is no requirement for 'factory sealed' eliquids just as there is no requirement for factory-sealed extra scoops of icecream or extra chocolate syrup on a icecream sundae. Why should that be regulated?

If you search ECF you will find an easy to put together DIY nicotine strength test kit if you have any doubts as to whether the declared nicotine content of any eliquid is accurate.

I believe someone has done a disservice to you and you have been grossly misled regarding sweeteners and cancer. As you learn more about flavorings, you may discover that the sweetness in many eliquids is a property of flavor molecules themselves. VG and PG, being sugar alcohols, also have sweetness. Sucralose is a commonly used sweetener and is rarely used above a drop or two of a very diluted solution:

A Report on Sucralose from the Food Sanitation Council
"In a 12-month repeated dose toxicity study in Beagle dogs, no toxicological effect was observed at dietary levels of 0.3, 1 and 3%. In a combined chronic toxicity/carcinogenicity study in mice exposed to sucralose at dietary levels of 3,000, 10,000 and 30,000 ppm for 104 weeks, neither deaths nor any clinical signs related to the treatment were observed."....."(5) Teratogenicity Study - Sucralose was administered by gavage to pregnant rats (days 6 to 15 of gestation) at dose levels of 500, 1,000 and 2,000 mg/kg/day. In this study, no adverse effects were observed on fetuses. No teratogenicity was noted and therefore the NOAEL was estimated to be over 2,000 mg/kg."

 

[skoony]

gosh, it was pretty simple for me. I went to UAMS, hooked up with the expert allergy / immunology team there, as well as an ancillary dermatologist, and using science, we were able to nail it down. Food, environmental, metals, skin products, household cleaners.

Not hard at all. Just a bit time consuming.

It is quite easy for me to just avoid certain things.

The scenario with vaping as it stands, as a consumer, it appears I am not entitled to know what the things are in the juice I vape, nor some of the materials or mystery metals etc. in the PRC manufactured items. Therefore, I can't seek a remedy. someone would have to actually just give up vaping by relying on "guess work". which would be a shame.

And also, let me be clear about this: far more people have sensitivities and allergies than they realize, it's just not something they know about. There are a lot of things like headaches, migraines, acne, aching joints and muscles, hair thinning....tinnitus.....gosh, I can come up with 100 symtoms, that people who learned about the effect of certain things on their immune systems have been cured of. Things they just thought they had to live with because nobody ever sent them to a good immunologist . Instead, they will be given pills and potions and spend their lives suffering needlessly, lacking a real diagnosis.

So I completely disagree with you about the small sample size. Just because you are not going into anaphalactic shock doesn't mean you aren't having serious allergic issues.

i a not talking about any single individual who has a sensitivity or allergy.
i am referring to how i as a manufacturer make a product that someone
somewhere may be allergic to any one thing that may be in my product.
as i said above just listing all the chemicals found in one flavoring would
be impossible on a 30 ml bottle.
certain things thought to be harmful can be accounted for.
this may contain diketones or nicotine may be addictive for instance.
my gut feeling is this is not what the FDA will require. they will want
every chemical known to be good,bad,or unknown to be extensively
tested in any and all combinations with full toxicology reports down
to ppm's if not ppb's.
if that is what they go for its game over.
my other concern is why e-juice is elevated to level of
concern far over and above any other product on the market
other than perhaps cigarettes and automobiles.
in the real world an average percentage of 98.7 % safer
than smoking means drinking municipal tap water is just
as dangerous as vaping.
there are thousands of products containing things an
individual may be allergic too. from a practical stand point
its easier and safer for an individual to monitor what they
chose to ingest. they are the ones that know what they are
allergic too.
as far as supposed other people that have allergies they do not know about
causing all these things that may or may not be happening isn't really a concern.
its a shadow argument with no quantifiable substance.
we don't know who they are,how many they are or even if they exist.

regards
mike

 

[vapero]

We should have regulations as good has regulations... You see the industrialized food factories should have a lot of regulations stating everything they put inside, but you don't see that on the restaurant side if you want that same level of regulation you would just have one option of meal per restaurant and no menu change or daily chef specials

 

[MacTechVpr]

My concern.

I know. Every one. Might go crazy on this post.

Certain things concern me now.


I am sensative / Allergic at times to a few in ingredients.


I feel the bottle should have the ingredients listed.

How do I know ? What's in it ?

I got very sick. Right away from mothers milk.

I can assure you. Something was in it. That I'm allergic too.

I contact over a week ago. Suicide bunny and they did not even reply.

I feel local shops. Back Yard mix. Is good. But how do I know. It's not something I'm allergic too ?

There should be a way to sample. Check. If the nicotine is right level.


Sweateners and artificial flavors. Over the ppm. Can cause cancer. Rapid cancer. Not stuff like. Oh 6 year of heavy use.
I mean 6 months. You got it.

How do I know. That they stayed under that ppm. ? I think I have a right to know..

Lot of shops making there own.

I seen them add nic. To a 3ml. Bottle. 5 min later. Selling it as 6ml.

Is that right ?

You say, How do I know ? What's in it ?

You ask. Any responsible juice maker with like-kind flavor suppliers should be able to provide a generic ingredients list and chemical profile. If they won't or can't, how serious are they? If it's not even on the table of consideration…why don't we run for the hills? Or better yet…warn others!

I'm extremely flavor sensitive and at risk. I know where my deficits are (or are likely). I do because I am proactive in my own diagnosis and treatment. When in doubt I inform myself. Still in doubt, turn about. When I haven't there's no one to blame but me.

My question to you is why should everyone else have to pay for our needs?

Here's what I know…if we ask government to do stuff for us, they certainly will. And it will likely cost us multiples of the cost to us the public were we to do it ourselves.

I believe in genuine altruism and conscientiousness. Principles conspicuously eroded in my lifetime by the impetus of imposed collectivized deferment of social cost. I say deferment because they can never collect enough to pay for what they actually spend.

Time for a change in our expectations of others.

Good luck.



p.s. If we know that peppers are really hot, and really hot peppers should be avoided; then, what would you call a vendor's attestation that they're really, really hot? — Advertising.

 

[AndriaD]

You say, How do I know ? What's in it ?

You ask. Any responsible juice maker with like-kind flavor suppliers should be able to provide a generic ingredients list and chemical profile. If they won't or can't, how serious are they? If it's not even on the table of consideration…why don't we run for the hills? Or better yet…warn others!

I'm extremely flavor sensitive and at risk. I know where my deficits are (or are likely). I do because I am proactive in my own diagnosis and treatment. When in doubt I inform myself. Still in doubt, turn about. When I haven't there's no one to blame but me.

My question to you is why should everyone else have to pay for our needs?

Here's what I know…if we ask government to do stuff for us, they certainly will. And it will likely cost us multiples of the cost to us the public were we to do it ourselves.

I believe in genuine altruism and conscientiousness. Principles conspicuously eroded in my lifetime by the impetus of imposed collectivized deferment of social cost. I say deferment because they can never collect enough to pay for what they actually spend.

Time for a change in our expectations of others.

Good luck.



p.s. If we know that peppers are really hot, and really hot peppers should be avoided; then, what would you call a vendor's attestation that they're really, really hot? — Advertising.

Right on. My son is deathly (anaphylaxis!) allergic to coconut. As much as I love him, that doesn't mean I want every bit of coconut taken off the shelves, every bit of coconut oil removed from every single consumer item. Sheesh!

I'm highly allergic to penicillin myself. My son is not -- and when he was a tiny baby and prone to sticking his fingers in my mouth, I had to be sure he didn't do that if he was currently taking penicillin for an ear infection!

Proactive is a good work. So is 'self-motivated'. If you trust someone else to look after your best interest, you're gonna need a good life insurance policy for the ones you leave behind.

Andria

 

[Racehorse]

drinking municipal tap water is just
as dangerous as vaping
regards
mike

My water department sends out a full chemical analysis of my water at least once or twice a year. The lab report is a full page.

I can turn in a water sample from my well any time to the well driller as well and receive an analysis.

I waited 3 years for more transparency and it didn't happen, so I detached from purchasing. There are plenty more like me, I"m sure. Proactive means I vape 2 flavors now, that I have researched carefully, and make my own ejuice. Per the previous poster's exlamation "run for the hills". The *hills* for me turned out to be DIY.

 

[MacTechVpr]

My water department sends out a full chemical analysis of my water at least once or twice a year. The lab report is a full page.

I can turn in a water sample from my well any time to the well driller as well and receive an analysis.

I waited 3 years for more transparency and it didn't happen, so I detached from purchasing. There are plenty more like me, I"m sure. Proactive means I vape 2 flavors now, that I have researched carefully, and make my own ejuice. Per the previous poster's exlamation "run for the hills". The *hills* for me turned out to be DIY.

Always a happy home there!

G'luck.

 

[AndriaD]

My water department sends out a full chemical analysis of my water at least once or twice a year. The lab report is a full page.

I can turn in a water sample from my well any time to the well driller as well and receive an analysis.

I waited 3 years for more transparency and it didn't happen, so I detached from purchasing. There are plenty more like me, I"m sure. Proactive means I vape 2 flavors now, that I have researched carefully, and make my own ejuice. Per the previous poster's exlamation "run for the hills". The *hills* for me turned out to be DIY.

I started DIYing for similar reasons, though primarily I'm concerned that there be no diketones, and 84% PG instead of all that high-VG mess; I *kept* DIYing instead of buying ejuice because turns out, a) it's not that hard to do, and b) I can make better ejuice than any I've ever bought -- for one hell of a lot less money! Seems like a total win-win-win to me: safe ingredients -- better taste -- far less costly!

Andria

 

[edyle]

If you're not happy about the absence of ingredients list on a bottle then don't buy it.

 

[wheelie]

I know of a shop that buys all their juice in zero then you buy juice they just open the bottle and add the nicotine to the bottle on the counter.

 

[mcclintock]

^^-- me too, that makes the nicotine as fresh in nonpopular flavors as popular ones. They make juices -- somewhere else, I presume -- plus carry a dripper line in 0 and 3 or custom.

The problem with regulations is you may know exactly what's in it, because there's only one product. Which you may not be able to get info on, but you'll only have to try it once.

Those with allergies, be informed or at least cautious. Good reminder.

 

[Vigilantelove]

Regulation. Here's the thing, once this industry becomes regulated, we'll see a lot of smaller vendors go out of business. Plus we won't truly get a list of ingredients a mile long. We'll still only get generic warnings, just like on alcohol and cigarettes.

I think vendors should absolutely be transparent with their juice ingredients, whether it's a pamphlet, on their website or on the bottle. If they refuse to answer these questions when asked, we should answer back with our wallets. We have a right to know what we put into our bodies. I read food ingredient labels, why wouldn't I want to know what I'm inhaling?

I do not believe that regulations will give us the information we need. We'll see the companies that have the money to survive, undergo standards testing. Then we'll see generic warning labels. We already know that inhaling anything besides air is unhealthy. Warning labels won't get us answers. Most reputable companies have warning labels already.

What would be more valuable is accurate and unbiased medical research on the effects of inhaling the base and flavorings. This will help us better understand the real dangers of what we are inhaling, and show what flavorings cause allergic reactions. This is the only way we'll know what level of harm we are doing to our lungs.

As a consumer, I am aware of my body and how the things I put into my body cause me to react. I stop using juice that causes me to react badly. It would make it easier if we knew ahead of time whether or not a certain flavor was known to cause reactions.

I put a cautious toe into the pool of those wanting more realistic medical research into vaping. I do not, however, support regulatory action. I know that this is not a safe thing to do, I just know that it is safer than smoking. It is the only thing that got me completely off cigarettes. I would like to know the actual damage I am causing my lungs. Id like to know what flavors are harmful besides those with diketones. These unknowns will only become known with more research.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zoiDman]

I think this Thread, like Most threads here on the ECF that are similar, are better suited for a Pre-2010 era.

Because we are going to have Regulations. That Isn't really Debatable.

So it would seem that Better Questions to ask would be...

What Regulations would be Good for the Industry?
What Regulations would be Bad for the Industry?
What Regulations would have Little Effect on Vapers?
What Regulations would have Huge Effects on Vapers?
What Regulations have a Chance of Being Challenged/Changed?
What Regulations have a No Chance of Being Challenged/Changed?