Five Pawns responds with own results!!
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I'll pass...That's still a lot of AP.
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i wonder if pbusardo is still going to vape their stuff, hes one of the more popular in vaping community and everyone knows he loves their eliquid.
I read of companies stating their eliquids did not contain diacetyl before these tests started happening, and then the tests end up showing they in fact were lying. I wonder if 5Pawns is one of em, I wouldn't buy from anyone who lied to me in the first place. Looks like 5pawns is threatening Cloud9vaping (the one who did the tests and posted results) as well, cloud9vaping took down their results pending 'legal advice'.
I read of companies stating their eliquids did not contain diacetyl before these tests started happening, and then the tests end up showing they in fact were lying. I wonder if 5Pawns is one of em, I wouldn't buy from anyone who lied to me in the first place. Looks like 5pawns is threatening Cloud9vaping (the one who did the tests and posted results) as well, cloud9vaping took down their results pending 'legal advice'.
being a relatively new vaper who spent years shielding my ears ( or living in denial depending on who you might ask) from paying any attention to the incessant evils of my tobacco, is there any possibility of zero shady components in any of the flavouring components I might use- just wondering. I honestly can't stand tobacco flavour anymore and I never did like menthol
I can't find 2015 results - these are all end of 2014 or have I missed something? I assume their nearly 2 month silence is because they have been re-testing? They could have posted these results immediately.
i duno, never know with store bough eliquid, then again u never know with flavoring additives you make yourself as well. Most diacetyl seem to be in anything that is related to 'creamy' or 'buttery' or 'yogurt'ish flavored. Also a known fact that a ton of eliquid makers use creamy flavoring in their eliquids.
Ah OK - so they are basically saying that there is no proof AP is a problem and evidence is unsubstantiated and they are happy with their levels:
'Five Pawns does not feel there is any concern with diacetyl or AP in our e-liquids at current levels. AP can be an important flavor enhancer for flavor profiles that are creamy in nature, and is used widely in the food and beverage industries'.
They have obviously taken steps to remove diacetyl in the past and replaced with AP. Their own tests shows pretty high levels so they are fine with it - I assume they are disputing the particularly high AP results from Cloud 9 not the fact it is there in relatively high quantities. I actually have no problem with this stance providing they don't say they are AP free - people can then make their own decision.
'Five Pawns does not feel there is any concern with diacetyl or AP in our e-liquids at current levels. AP can be an important flavor enhancer for flavor profiles that are creamy in nature, and is used widely in the food and beverage industries'.
They have obviously taken steps to remove diacetyl in the past and replaced with AP. Their own tests shows pretty high levels so they are fine with it - I assume they are disputing the particularly high AP results from Cloud 9 not the fact it is there in relatively high quantities. I actually have no problem with this stance providing they don't say they are AP free - people can then make their own decision.
Caro,..Yes and I am in the process of a re-do of my blog..You are welcome to visit my profile and take a look at some recommendations.
The Fickle Finger of Fate Award will be going to suppliers like @TroopX of "The Plume Room" for a quick response to my question about diacetyl / diketone testing.......
.... and the Taunting Frenchman will go to anyone I find that uses those in their eliquids...There's just no need for it imo.
I hate to be that way..but I stopped smoking because of health reasons and it wasn't an easy thing to do..Vaping is the only thing that worked for me,..even after a heart attack. I smoked another 5 years after a freakin' heart attack forgoodnessake.
Look,..I vape 10mls a day easy,..some days more! That means I vape well over 300mls a month. I blow through juice like there will never be anymore. My neighbors think I'm running a power plant some mornings if the wind blows right!
If I'm going to spend that kind of green every month,..you better believe it's going to be with a supplier that shoots straight and don't use any of that junk in their juices.
So juice suppliers,..you're all on notice from me anyway..Stop using crap that you don't now is safe when there is absolutly NO need for it.
Yep,..I thought long and hard about my decision to drop AP..I like creamy vapes as well. Until further testing is done on AP I'm not buying that those are safe..I've got harm reduction in mind here..For me,..my choice will be AP free.
as of now 5P's and Cloud9 have pulled down
test results from their sites.
mike
test results from their sites.
mike
My concern arises from the fact that there have been zero cases of harm resulting from vaping these liquids. Not one. We know that industrial use of diacetyl has led to an elevated risk of harm. That's about it. Industrial use of many household chemicals has led to harm as well but we still routinely use ammonia, chlorine, etc.
As far as AP, no harm has been demonstrated in humans. Remember the saccharine scare? Rats are not humans.
I just wish we would all -industry and consumers alike- take a step back and see things as they are instead of how our fear paints them.
As far as AP, no harm has been demonstrated in humans. Remember the saccharine scare? Rats are not humans.
I just wish we would all -industry and consumers alike- take a step back and see things as they are instead of how our fear paints them.
But we all know that fifty or sixty or hundred or more years ago there have been zero (reported) cases of harm resulting from smoking cigarettes.
These things just need time. Harm reduction is reduction of potential harm in this case.
Smoking was always recognized as dangerous because of the rather obvious problems it caused people from the beginning. To wit, King James the First -yes, THAT King James- published this treatise on the dangers of tobacco.
Science only confirmed what people already knew. Mark Twain and Sigmind Freud both died of smoking related causes and were well aware that smoking was the cause. They didn't need a study to prove it.
In the present case, no one has begun to suffer obvious ill effects from vaping any flavor. Vaping has been around long enough for problems to emerge. Science has also progressed tremendously. There is no scientific evidence that the ingredients and exposure levels involved are harmful.
Given the fact that people have been vaping diacetyl and related chemicals and no harm has emerged, I'm not going to overreact and give the ANTZ more ammunition.
Science only confirmed what people already knew. Mark Twain and Sigmind Freud both died of smoking related causes and were well aware that smoking was the cause. They didn't need a study to prove it.
In the present case, no one has begun to suffer obvious ill effects from vaping any flavor. Vaping has been around long enough for problems to emerge. Science has also progressed tremendously. There is no scientific evidence that the ingredients and exposure levels involved are harmful.
Given the fact that people have been vaping diacetyl and related chemicals and no harm has emerged, I'm not going to overreact and give the ANTZ more ammunition.
That's not the point..Five Pawns was asked in an email to them if they had been tested for AP ..the results ect. and they said yes,..and that their eliquids did not contain any AP...Their own test results showed that they lied..Then there are those that claim,.."Yes well those tested were like three months old and we reformulated since then". Shoot straight people damn..You are selling this eliquid to the public!
Talk about ammo for ANTZ..That's plenty enough for the FDA when they decide to drop the equivalent of a 1000lb bomb to crack a walnut as far as when regulations hit imo.
Not saying they're lying, but when faced with the option of accepting the results of an unbiased third party, or a biased company, I'm inclined to accept those of the former. Whose to say they didn't mix up a special batch just for testing. I'm not accusing them of doing so, but you never know.
Regardless, I'm not paying $27 for something that probably cost them less than $4 to produce.
Regardless, I'm not paying $27 for something that probably cost them less than $4 to produce.
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They followed that with: "That needs to change. We want to assure our retailers and customers that Five Pawns is 100% dedicated to working to develop a standard methodology by which all e-liquids can be tested and held accountable."
So it appears to me that they are concerned with the lack of standards and want to develop ones that will suit the industry as a whole. They also said they are funding in vitro studies on the effects of inhalation on lung tissue, degradation, etc. This is exactly what we need to see from the industry.
yeah after they got caught lying about the contents of their ejuice. Just diversion and damage control.
Personally I do not give a big rats azz about diacetyl and such. I quit smoking to save money. Not to live longer.
I do think that for the most part vaping is far safer than smoking and I do feel better as a benefit of quitting smoking.
However I DO think that we should be told what if any known harmful ingredients are in what we buy so we can make an informed decision to buy or not.
Not saying it is in there is bad enough, but lying about it really pizzes me off.
Many vapers ARE concerned about Diacetyl and such and THEY have the right to know if it is in their juice.
Personally I do not give a big rats azz about diacetyl and such. I quit smoking to save money. Not to live longer.
I do think that for the most part vaping is far safer than smoking and I do feel better as a benefit of quitting smoking.
However I DO think that we should be told what if any known harmful ingredients are in what we buy so we can make an informed decision to buy or not.
Not saying it is in there is bad enough, but lying about it really pizzes me off.
Many vapers ARE concerned about Diacetyl and such and THEY have the right to know if it is in their juice.
I agree with you.
Until I see the "record" where 5P stated categorically that they do not have any diacetyl or AP in their products and were subsequently caught out as lying then I'm fine with them selling their product as long as they are telling people that it contains one or the other or both, and let people make up their own minds if they want to use the product.
I know one vendor that I've just ordered from makes it quite clear that one of their flavorings has AP in it, I'm actually fine with that, I've put and continue to put far worse things into my body and they gave me the choice, I didn't have to buy their product.
Anyway if 5P are not officially on the record somewhere stating that they are diacetyl and AP free in their products I don't see a problem here. I do see them as bullies however and that unless they are going to reimburse the test fees then they'll just have to let the other folks show their test results and 5P can show theirs.
5P doesn't really amount to a hill of beans in my books anyway as they're substantially overpriced for what they are selling anyway and to be honest, both of those (dia and ap) don't mean anything to me, I just went into a new (new to me) vape shop near work and the lady behind the counter touted about how her husband is a chemist and all of their liquids are diacetyl and AP free to which I had to tell her the truth.... "I really don't give a banana skin whether or not your liquids contain those, I care how it tastes and vapes, I was a 30+ year smoker, do you really think I cared what I ingested"?
Personally it all rather feels like a witch hunt and that many in our community are cutting off their noses to spite their faces, as long as they tell us if it's in there, buyer beware.
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