Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing.
- Thread starter Lemwise
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Say what? Did you read the results Cloud 9 published???? Those are the results from their test. Thanks for visiting the five pawns web site those hits are great for Google rankings.
Seeing the Nicotine mg/ml levels being Off by that much Didn't Exactly give me a Warm n' Fuzzy Feeling that Five Pawn's Quality Control or Mixing Techniques are Top Notch.
I'm curious to see what Other Retailers/Individuals find regarding this. Because Testing for Nicotine mg/ml is a Relative Simple and Inexpensive Test to Perform.
FWIW, I've only bought a sampler pack from FP. While I liked some, I can't justify paying this much. It's not THAT good.
However, I noticed that one of the bottles gave me so much TH, that there was no way it was 12mg. I haven't tested it, but I've been vaping for months now, and I still have a variety of juice in different nic strengths.
What they sold me for 12mg was definitely much higher than that.
However, I noticed that one of the bottles gave me so much TH, that there was no way it was 12mg. I haven't tested it, but I've been vaping for months now, and I still have a variety of juice in different nic strengths.
What they sold me for 12mg was definitely much higher than that.
I've read them repeatedly. To quote from your own post of the Cloud9 results.
Cloud9
Propylene glycol* 73%
Glycerol* 27%
Five Pawns
Our liquid blends are comprised of 50% VG / 50% PG.
Listen to show now.
Conclusion: those guys are for jail.
If Cloud9Vaping tests are right, Five Pawns are worst then cigarettes.
This company has to go down.
Conclusion: those guys are for jail.
If Cloud9Vaping tests are right, Five Pawns are worst then cigarettes.
This company has to go down.
There will not be a lawsuit because neither side can afford one, whatever the situation or outcome.
Cloud9 can't afford the lawyers; it isn't their business that they are fighting for.
Five Pawns can't afford to shine a spotlight on their procedures. There's enough evidence of serious inconsistency even without the Cloud9 reports and they really don't want a hostile expert witness telling everyone how dangerous AP is. If they win they look like a bully and if they lose their business is dead.
Cloud9 can't afford the lawyers; it isn't their business that they are fighting for.
Five Pawns can't afford to shine a spotlight on their procedures. There's enough evidence of serious inconsistency even without the Cloud9 reports and they really don't want a hostile expert witness telling everyone how dangerous AP is. If they win they look like a bully and if they lose their business is dead.
Really ? You say you almost a year ago ?
Here's their announcement on the arrival of Five Pawns on their thread on March 18 of this year :
Five Pawns has arrived at Cloud 9 | E-Cigarette Forum
It was tested immediately and when Five Pawns refused to engage in a discussion in writing, the stock was returned by May 4.
Yes, it was almost a year ago. Nine months ago. Look at the date on 5P's lab results. C9 requested the lab results, 5P declined, so C9 ordered their own report. After that report was published, 5P lawyered up and threatened them into taking it down, and only then did they publish the report that they've had for 9 months which, while not quite as high as C9s results, does indicate a new world record for AP content.
But for realsies, listen to Russ' show for a complete annotated & referenced timeline.
But for realsies, listen to Russ' show for a complete annotated & referenced timeline.
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Go back and read the Suicide Bunny thread. He was up to the same thing there too. I think the results done by 5P were from when Russ was asking them last year. 5P knew before Cloud9 ever asked them. He covered this in the podcast.
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But seriously what is he trying to say? Its inscrutable to me. Apparently its important enough to repeat...
I'm seriously interested in knowing what he's trying to say. Not sure if its a language barrier issue or what.
I'm seriously interested in knowing what he's trying to say. Not sure if its a language barrier issue or what.
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I'm not talking about 5P's own testing. I am responding to Pings post claiming he saw 5p's liquids on C9 site one year ago implying something sinister in their motives for not testing until March of this year.
I think the 5P testing was done before this whole thing became an issue, which is why people are so ...... off.
5P knew about the DA/AP (from their own testing) and continued to tell customers that the liquid did not contain either chemical (various people have e-mails from 5P saying they are clean). Then C9 begins carrying their line earlier this year and apparently 5P was not willing to provide C9 with test results. C9 goes and gets it tested independently and posts them to the world. 5P responds by posting their own results (from 2014) which proves they knew this all along and were just sitting on the information hoping it would never come out.
Shady.
^^
Not to mention that to this day they have been answering consumer queries on AP content of their juices in the most obfuscating possible way. I called them myself a few hours ago pretending to be some random knownothing and was told the AP content was not present to a detectable degree. Okay maybe I fibbed there. I wasn't pretending.
I'm willing to go a step further and say its a dishonest disgrace and a complete betrayal of the trust they worked hard to cultivate amongst the customers they obviously do not respect.
Not to mention that to this day they have been answering consumer queries on AP content of their juices in the most obfuscating possible way. I called them myself a few hours ago pretending to be some random knownothing and was told the AP content was not present to a detectable degree. Okay maybe I fibbed there. I wasn't pretending.
I'm willing to go a step further and say its a dishonest disgrace and a complete betrayal of the trust they worked hard to cultivate amongst the customers they obviously do not respect.
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Yeah and people make a lot out of 5P's own results being lower. That's true. C9's results showed 2500ppm on one liquid, where 5P's showed about 900ppm. Either number is far too high. Even 5P's lower number is far more than is found in cigarette smoke.
I highly suggest anyone interested in the science behind DA/AP to watch Dr. Hobbs' presentation to the FDA.
I recommend the whole video, actually (lots of different scientists gave talks to the FDA on e-cigs). It is 4 hours long, though. But it gives you an idea of the stuff the FDA is hearing from scientists on the topic which will give us a good idea of where regulation is going.
EDIT: 2,3-Pentanedione is the technical name for AP.
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