Confused about Diacetyl? You should be - read now
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Scroll down to the bottom of the first page where the article by Kathleen Kreiss starts.
No, not really. Much more to do with the process of formulating the flavors. Very interesting story. But it's for another day (sorry, not Thursday).
Rest assured, there was no way DA/AP were ever going to feature in their Artist Collection liquids.
I think any liquids containing DA/AP should be labeled. I DIY and only buy from suppliers that clearly mark their flavorings that contain them. Personally I avoid those flavors, but I don't expect everyone to. DA and AP do taste great and my ADV when I was quitting the analogs DID contain a DA flavoring. I have since learned about the dangers and mow try to avoid it. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I feel safer this way. 
The short answer is yes it may, the diacetyl will/may form from alcohols being present in some flavors and when mixed with another water soluble or alcohol flavor it may start the chain reaction.. The link I posted to wiki's defining of diacetyl explains this alcohol chaining of diacetyl production. The long answer has to be explained by a chemist.. But yes it can..
Here's the chaining of how it occurs.
"A distinctive feature of diacetyl (and other 1,2-diketones) is the long C-C bond linking the carbonyl centers. This bond distance is about 1.54 Å, compared to 1.45 Å for the corresponding C-C bond in 1,3-butadiene. The elongation is attributed to repulsion between the polarized carbonyl carbon centers.[2] "
Bond together those chains and it starts forming, steep it long and it grows..
Ya its a tragedy to all of us whom enjoy complex ejuices but with proper chemistry rules in combining flavors we can eliminate it..
It will take proper professional research as with epoxy you have two separate chemicals mix them together and they make a whole different chain of chemical composition. Ya we definitely need some knowledge or just stick with basic juices known not to contain diacetyl..
Has anyone ever shown diketone test results for fresh mixed liquid, then again for the very same liquid after several months steeping?
It would be a great test, Nude nicotine will test but as said it is a costly endeavor. Well worth it for manufacturers but for us regular consumers blah.. Then again some of us deep pocket peeps can and probably will have this testing done..
10 or so flavors x 2(beginning/steeped) $3500.00 not to bad but whoa lol.. I would love to have RY4 tested myself after a month steeping it becomes amazing, give it another 3 months and its OMG thats good. Its gotta be diacetyl-- may be wrong but it does become more buttery etc..
"Mini Profile" - Nicotine + Diketones - Nude Nicotine
10 or so flavors x 2(beginning/steeped) $3500.00 not to bad but whoa lol.. I would love to have RY4 tested myself after a month steeping it becomes amazing, give it another 3 months and its OMG thats good. Its gotta be diacetyl-- may be wrong but it does become more buttery etc..
"Mini Profile" - Nicotine + Diketones - Nude Nicotine
I'd also be interested to see what effect Ultrasonic Cleaners have given the increased temperature.
Yeah, someone else pointed that out. I bailed as soon as I saw Mark D. Eisner's name.
Wasn't meaning to offend.
My point was any studies on tobacco are irrelevant in regards to the medical studies of DA and AP. All studies around smoking were done to either prove or disprove that smoking was hazardous to smokers and those around them. The studies involving DA and AP were done to find out the hazards for the people who worked with them, not the people who consumed them. At the time these studies were done people weren't even thinking about inhaling them deliberately through an ecig. There was no incentive for anyone to make DA and AP appear either more or less dangerous than they really are. There was no multibillion dollar industry trying to say they were safe, and there was no mass public movement trying to get them banned. The studies were done to find the REAL hazard for those who had continuous exposure to them.
So here we have a juice company adamantly stating that there juice is clean but they have never tested it. ?????
It all makes me want to grab a Marlboro
I did not ask for your jaded opinion. Im merely passing on an email I submitted to them in my own interest. If sharing that information is too much for you to absorb I would happily reside in your Ignore folder.
I'm not sure it would make any difference. Diketones do not chemically change over time, nor do they break down or increase by any significant amount. Other flavors may be altered by the aging process, but the volume of diketones should remain pretty constant.
Part of the reason they are used as flavoring in microwave popcorn is because they remain at a consistent level of saturation and flavoring over extended periods of time on shelves. You wouldn't want your 4 month old bag of popcorn to taste any different from your fresh bag of popcorn.
Surely any article/study could be discussed on it's own merit though. I don't think it's tainted solely by it's proximity to another unrelated article.
Did you read the post I quoted? If you disagree with it, please explain where they went wrong.
I'm asking, not arguing, since I know nearly nothing about chemistry.
"doesn't say much" doesn't totally dismiss - your right, but it can sometimes be a clue as to what follows, esp. it is combined in that fashion. And I had abandoned the thread earlier - said what I wanted to say - and took Mark Twain's advice with regards to some comments.
Ran by this looking up something else - your post from earlier - If you still hold that view, we agree on that aspect of the subject.
"Why can't they say that yes there is diacetyl in our products, but there is no "clear and present danger". I will make my own decision as a consumer."
And your point was irrelevant to me because of my mistake of not scrolling down. I still stand on what I said regarding Eisner but understand it didn't address SJ's point, which I have no more interest in addressing. (see my post above to Maz...)
I am not sure which post you are referring to, you posted excerpts and not the complete post, but yes it's likely those quotes came from one of my posts. My views on the topic are still evolving, but to me the real issue is vendor transparency. I don't want to persuade or dissuade anyone as to the potential risk of these compounds. I have a feeling i am more concerned than you, but i respect any informed decision others make re what they inhale.
What i don't agree with is trying to make this into a political issue. I don't care what ANTZ say about the topic, don't really care what if any effect this will have on regulations ( I believe they will do what they want regardless of what we discuss in these forums ). To me, looking at every issue, not on it's own merits but on it's possible effects on regulations or impact on " industry " is misguided.
I will paraphrase a post i read elsewhere : " Vapers have felt hounded and persecuted, and it has set them up into a very inflexible emotional state. All that is required to be labelled an ANTZ is to find something questionable about vaping, and then ask questions."
I am not too familiar with your views on the topic, but there are a few on the other thread that feel the need to defend the industry through any means possible, whether it's information, misinformation, dismissal of concerns, obfuscation etc... And they will employ ( deliberately, imo ) every logical fallacy they could think of. Again, i am not accusing you of using these tactics, but i just feel some concerns may be valid regardless of the source.
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@Mazinny
Understood, acknowledged... but I'm really outta here - putting the thread on 'ignore'.....
Understood, acknowledged... but I'm really outta here - putting the thread on 'ignore'.....
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