Research claims vape nic more addicting than cig nic
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Maybe it's the psychological effect of doing an action that is associated with a calming effect?
I thought that, as well, until I tried 0-nic, but again maybe me knowing it is 0-nic had a psychological effect...
I think it's definitely a complex issue, and there are almost certainly psychological and physiological factors at play. Like why do most smokers want something that looks like a cigarette, while some want nothing that looks, smells, or tastes like a cigarette?
People really are unique little snowflakes, all frozen water, but all special in their own way.
Yes, as I said, very high wattage improves lung penetration a lot. The majority of devices, however, are not very high powered.
I think it may be the PG and nic. rather than high wattage. Most high wattage vapers use low PG and low nic. and get denser vapor. I vape at very low power by today's standards- usually around 8 watts, but vape high PG and high nic liquids. 'Thinner' vapor and possible easier, faster absorption...
Thanks for the info Kurt.
Not sure if I'm reading the above as you intended, but many of the 'studies' being done that tend to invalidate smoking cessation, aren't long enough studies to establish that conclusion.
There is a path that each smoker who takes up vaping - it varies but there is a phase of finding what is the right equipment, right nic level, right flavor, right vapor - all of that can take awhile :- ) ...and 'right absorption' may be the least important, since I believe, and I think many here believe/know? that nicotine isn't as major a part of the dependency as other factors you mention - esp. vapor, but also hand to mouth, ritual, etc. (iow those factors that other NRT products don't handle at all and hence aren't nearly as successful as ecigs). I'd say, from personal experience and discussing this point with others, that nicotine may be more of an effect initially and lessens as one continues. The fact as has been discussed here and elsewhere that we can lay down the PV for hours, was not the case with smoking, tends to validate the 'anti-addictive/dependence' aspect of nicotine. Not saying it isn't an aspect, just that it is not as strong of factor that many believe it to be. And hence, as you say about the 'dependence/addiction' discussion - with which I totally agree, I also think that much of the science of absorption, while interesting, is also not worth the attention that some make of it. And I'd certainly not in any way encourage manufactures to look to 'better nicotine absorption' since that is part of the shillelagh that the ANTZ used against tobacco companies and it isn't a stretch to think that they would do the same with vaping.
Sometimes part of that 'path' is dual use - another huge factor exploited by those who want to stop vaping. And those studies mentioned also tend to validate this - as long as they don't go past the point of dual use to full time vaping. I was an 'accidental quit' with the original Janty 510 but my wife as a dual user until eGo/Kanger tanks. It took a while. An interesting study would be to find cessation success by equipment used and even if one started with a cigalike, did smoking cessation occur with upgrades? Or did one start out with upgraded equipment, etc. etc. That and longer term studies on cessation might show a completely different picture - and one that studiers and their financers might not like.
AND perhaps more importantly, the intent of the studies (or who funds them) isn't to encourage vapers or smokers, especially when the intent of some is not 'smoking cessation' but 'nicotine cessation'. When that's the case, then any actual smoking cessation is going to be downplayed, since they don't want people vaping either. And yet we have seen some statistics that show that attacking ecigs with studies that show them 'more harmful than cigarettes' doesn't result in their desired 'nicotine cessation', but with potential and some current vapers continuing, or returning to, smoking.
PaxLabs has a patent application for their use of benzoic acid to transform freebase to salts in their nic liquid for the juul. They claim faster absorbtion:
Patent US20140345631 - Nicotine salt formulations for aerosol devices and methods thereof - Google Patents
There's another factor that I think desperately needs to be taken into account.
Does a person who tries vaping really, truly, honestly, want to quit? Or are they just mouthing the politically-correct credo? Or, maybe their wife/doctor/boss/kids wants them to quit, so the person may "try".... and then claim, it just doesn't work.
To quote/paraphrase Yoda... "Try NOT... do or don't do. There is no Try."
A lot of smokers really like smoking, and if it weren't for the serious health consequences and all the nannies in their life trying to tell them what to do FOR THEIR OWN GOOD, they might not ever have a single inclination to quit. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter what or how often and how strong the vape is, they will not find it as satisfying as smoking, because it is NOT smoking.
Or, maybe some smokers TRY it... and then discover that it is not a direct correlation; it is different, and it requires a great deal of learning, fiddling, buying new things to try something different... and maybe they're just not that interested, not that willing, not that patient... Vaping is not (yet?) as easy as smoking, and for some, that's a deal breaker.
I just wish that "public health" would get over themselves, and realize:
a) nobody (sane) really cares what they think;
b) you cannot force anyone to do anything;
c) just because a workable alternative exists, not EVERYONE will be interested, will be patient enough to MAKE it work, or has the proper support (such as ECF) that can help them learn what they need to know; and last but by far not least,
d) people's choices AND people's health hasn't got one iota to do with political correctness, OR the budgets of the various state gov'ts.
Andria
Does a person who tries vaping really, truly, honestly, want to quit? Or are they just mouthing the politically-correct credo? Or, maybe their wife/doctor/boss/kids wants them to quit, so the person may "try".... and then claim, it just doesn't work.
To quote/paraphrase Yoda... "Try NOT... do or don't do. There is no Try."
A lot of smokers really like smoking, and if it weren't for the serious health consequences and all the nannies in their life trying to tell them what to do FOR THEIR OWN GOOD, they might not ever have a single inclination to quit. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter what or how often and how strong the vape is, they will not find it as satisfying as smoking, because it is NOT smoking.
Or, maybe some smokers TRY it... and then discover that it is not a direct correlation; it is different, and it requires a great deal of learning, fiddling, buying new things to try something different... and maybe they're just not that interested, not that willing, not that patient... Vaping is not (yet?) as easy as smoking, and for some, that's a deal breaker.
I just wish that "public health" would get over themselves, and realize:
a) nobody (sane) really cares what they think;
b) you cannot force anyone to do anything;
c) just because a workable alternative exists, not EVERYONE will be interested, will be patient enough to MAKE it work, or has the proper support (such as ECF) that can help them learn what they need to know; and last but by far not least,
d) people's choices AND people's health hasn't got one iota to do with political correctness, OR the budgets of the various state gov'ts.
Andria
Smoking was always a stress reliever for me, especially for anxiety, and vaping has taken it's place for that. I feel some relief immediately, but that might not be the nicotine so much. However, in my case, the most important thing about nicotine is the throat hit. That's where the biggest part of the addiction seems to be, for me, and it's the nicotine that causes it. It also feels like a big part of the calming effect, along with the breath and blowing out vapor.
Although the nicotine might not reach my brain for a while, it feels like it's having other effects, quickly.
I'm sure with a very high nic, the mouth-to-lung thing works as well. Or with massive vapor concentrations. But this is the point where it probably gets addictive then. Especially for straight lung-hitters at high wattages, I think the lungs are definitely absorbing the nicotine. If I gave one of my setups to a non-smoker / non-vaper, after a couple hits they would feel dizzy (on 3mg nic). Its a lot of vapor.
I use nicotine more for maintaining focus (or just pleasure) rather than stress relief. Vapor helps, not big on throat hit.
I really don't have much stress, except when traveling, when 3-4 hits makes everything manageable...
It's really hard for me to figure out how much vaping does, and smoking did, help me directly with focusing. I feel an immediate, indirect boost in focus from the relief of the stress of intense concentration, including from the anxiety which sometimes accompanies trying to get work done. It lessens the distraction caused by the stress. But the vaping, smoking and nicotine may very well help more directly, too. I don't see it making much practical difference for me if it's direct, indirect, caused by nicotine, or caused by other aspects of vaping/smoking. It helps me for focusing, but I seem to do it more directly for the immediate stress relief.
I'm with Kent on that too. Nicotine has always helped me focus, and the big reason I enjoyed smoking so much. Only difference: I'm a big throat hit guy, its a must for me.
My career (information technology) demands a pretty high focus, attention to detail, and constant learning. I found that, when needing to learn a new skill or study for an certification exam, going out to the smoking area and reading/studying with a pack of cigarettes was WAY more useful than doing it without smoking... I could absorb the material much easier. Even when troubleshooting a complex problem, we used to call it "going outside to think about it" when we grabbed our packs and headed out, and nine times out of ten we'd solve it right there after a cigarette or two. Perhaps it's just psychological, and that certain is at play (taking a "break"), but I do consider nicotine to be a contributing factor to success in those situations.
Is vaping as addictive as smoking? No way. I seriously craved cigarettes for several weeks after converting solely to vaping, even when vaping my head off with 24mg juice. Yeah, it was an EGO-C back then, not nearly as efficient as my current high-wattage box mod, but I would still get woozy from the nicotine and still crave a cigarette.
Also, I can go vape-free for hours at a time without getting fidgety. This didn't happen when I smoked. I always had to have a pack with me, and got cranky if I went too long without a smoke.
My career (information technology) demands a pretty high focus, attention to detail, and constant learning. I found that, when needing to learn a new skill or study for an certification exam, going out to the smoking area and reading/studying with a pack of cigarettes was WAY more useful than doing it without smoking... I could absorb the material much easier. Even when troubleshooting a complex problem, we used to call it "going outside to think about it" when we grabbed our packs and headed out, and nine times out of ten we'd solve it right there after a cigarette or two. Perhaps it's just psychological, and that certain is at play (taking a "break"), but I do consider nicotine to be a contributing factor to success in those situations.
Is vaping as addictive as smoking? No way. I seriously craved cigarettes for several weeks after converting solely to vaping, even when vaping my head off with 24mg juice. Yeah, it was an EGO-C back then, not nearly as efficient as my current high-wattage box mod, but I would still get woozy from the nicotine and still crave a cigarette.
Also, I can go vape-free for hours at a time without getting fidgety. This didn't happen when I smoked. I always had to have a pack with me, and got cranky if I went too long without a smoke.
Likely the biggest difference I've noticed between vaping and smoking.
Actually, I'll amend my general statement by saying that flying (the whole 'airport>flying>airport' routine) is a bit stressful - and I stealth vape and use snus on planes - it helps, but again, not half as bad as when I was smoking.
I vape at around 9 watts, and I use high PG liquids at 12mg strength.
I don't feel anything at all from nicotine, either fast or slow.
The only time I've ever felt anything from nicotine was when I had too much too soon.
I went from feeling nothing at all to feeling nauseous, and got a headache.
The first time was when I swallowed some Red Man juice when I was a kid.
The other time was when I got a sampler of around 20 flavors two weeks after I started vaping.
They only had samples in 18mg but that didn't worry me.
I started chain-vaping in an effort to try them all.
But I didn't make it all the way.
When traveling I take a filled tank with Halo's base, unflavored 36mg. It's not so much I feel it, although I do, but no longer feel the absence of it.
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