Nicotine Comparisons

[Kurt]

alien Traveler is correct. pH is an aqueous property, and VG and PG are both more acidic than water. Not by a lot, but some. So in order to be able to use pH to tell salt vs free-base form accurately, there would have to be some additional calculations beyond simple Hendersonn-Hasselbach math to get the pKa of nicotinium (nic-H+) in the base, as opposed to water. I think it could be done, but I've not done it, and I doubt I will.

The other way is to dilute the nic base in water, so that water is the predominant solvent component. Then the nic will be acting closer to how it is in pure water. Not perfect, but better. I did this when I was running titration curves for the Box Elder samples way back when. For 100 mg nic base, I would dilute to about 5% in water, then titrate that and calculate backwards to get to the original nic concentration. The curves inflected where I expected them to at half-eq point (pKa of nicotinium ion), so I assumed the dilution was good enough.

I dipped an alk-acid paper into some 18 mg VT TH, unflavored, this week in the lab, and it came out more blue than green. So pretty alkaline, but the color was not deep, so direct color comparisons with the key on the paper tube was not easy. But I would estimate high 9s, certainly not as green as 8.5. but again, with only 20% water, it is not really a valid experiment. Better to dilute it and analyze the topology of the pH-curve.

 

[mhertz]

Wow, I just changed to using spaced coills instead of contacts/micros, and now I can up the wattage considerably without getting dry-hits gallore, and this then means that I now can taste the 3mg nic much better, even with high airflow still

Edit: Also, at same wattage, cooler vape but more intense flavor with spaced coils imho...

 

[JohnnyDill]

I will be messaging Cool_Breeze with my results in a few. I cannot thank Rossum enough. He went way over the top here, supplying so much nic to do this test. 2mg of each kind would have been plenty. Another bonus is that the bottles seem ideal for bottom feeders. These are lower in profile than the ones I got on eBay.

My summation is this: I never vaped zero nic juice before, especially unflavored. I think this step is very important when judging unflavored juice for nicotine qualities. WOW is zero nic smooth. True TH comes from nicotine, for sure, IMO.
I tested my daily nic alongside these four {MFS VG} for comparison. Once I find out which is which, it may effect what nic I buy next for stockpiling, provided the price is fair. You 'da man, Rossum!

 

[Rossum]

Another bonus is that the bottles seem ideal for bottom feeders.

That's what they were originally purchased for, but we rejected them as being too stiff to squonk comfortably.

 

[Exchaner]

Has anyone ever been short changed by their Nic supplier? I had this problem with Vaping Zone several months ago and stopped dealing with them. But now I have the exact same problem with My Freedom Smokes. My liter of 100 mg nicotine is significantly short, and they have yet to respond to any of my e mails. It's just the same that they did not because their usual response is a canned one - claiming they have not had any such problems with their other customers. A total sham because when a bunch of us on the ECF had the exact same issues with the quality of their VG, we all received the same canned response - that we were the only customer to complain !!! I now understand why Wizard Labs has such a good reputation. They are honest, professional and responsive to customer concerns. I have not dealt with them lately but several people have reported receiving a bit more Nic than they actually ordered. No more doing business with MFS for me - if I can help it that is.

 

[JohnnyDill]

I would hope that they will set you straight. I purchased a liter of 100mg VG nic from them September 2014 and it was filled right to the top. Nice and clear, too. Here it is right after shipment:
View media item 371298

 

[Exchaner]

I would hope that they will set you straight. I purchased a liter of 100mg VG nic from them September 2014 and it was filled right to the top. Nice and clear, too. Here it is right after shipment:
View media item 371298

Mine looks exactly the same but empty approx 1.5-2 inches from the top. I am not much concerned about the shortage, just with the ethical side of things. If they consider it not worth their time to respond, this practice is likely to continue with other customers.

 

[AlexStiff]

Exchanger, We have received your email and it has been forwarded to the proper people in charge of those situations. I will say that your situation is an anomaly and precautions have been put into place to make sure this doesn't happen again; we are all human after all. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
thank you!

 

[Wow1420]

Mine looks exactly the same but empty approx 1.5-2 inches from the top. I am not much concerned about the shortage, just with the ethical side of things. If they consider it not worth their time to respond, this practice is likely to continue with other customers.

Did you actually measure it? Usually bottles are designed to hold more than the stated size. Like, in a 30ml bottle, 30ml will come up to the start of the shoulder. For the taste test, I mixed 32ml batches, and that filled my "30ml" glass bottles to the top of the shoulder.

Most DIY vendors I've dealt with seem to err on the side of over-filling, I don't remember any that really under-filled. (not saying that it couldn't happen, I remember another vendor that seemed to generate quite a few "under-filling" complaints a while back.)

 

[Wow1420]

Sent my comparo results!

 

[JeremyR]

Yeah I agree if its filled to the top you've got quite a few extra ml in most bottles.. Many overfill to make us happy. Lots of competition out there..

 

[Exchaner]

Did you actually measure it? Usually bottles are designed to hold more than the stated size. Like, in a 30ml bottle, 30ml will come up to the start of the shoulder.

I agree that most bottles hold a bit more than their stated size, but in this particular case the bottle was obviously under-filled - a gap of almost two inches. That is quite a discrepancy. Some of these vendors are really hurting themselves by cutting corners. MFS just lost me as a customer - especially since they chose to ignore my repeated e mails. My business is going to WL the next time I need something.

 

[Kurt]

Mine looks exactly the same but empty approx 1.5-2 inches from the top. I am not much concerned about the shortage, just with the ethical side of things. If they consider it not worth their time to respond, this practice is likely to continue with other customers.

Did you actually measure the volume? bottles with curved tops like that do not generally have the labeled volume as right to the rim. For your 1 L volume, I would guess that is up to where the bottle starts curving in. That is how most bottles are. That is to take into account the possibility of expansion. This is the same with plastic dropper bottles of similar shape.

 

[sketchness]

Is everyone ready to report their findings?

I also have 2 additional nics to report on separately.

 

[clnire]

I already sent my results.

 

[KattMamma]

the suspense is gonna kill me lol

I'm really looking forward to the results.

Many thanks to Rossum for doing this and to all of the participants!!

 

[sketchness]

Just sent mine as well

 

[artv61]

is there a standard sheet for the results or are we just putting general comments on how we vaped them and there diff/or similarities?

 

[Exchaner]

Did you actually measure the volume? bottles with curved tops like that do not generally have the labeled volume as right to the rim. For your 1 L volume, I would guess that is up to where the bottle starts curving in. That is how most bottles are. That is to take into account the possibility of expansion. This is the same with plastic dropper bottles of similar shape.

Yes I did measure but not in the conventional way of measuring the actual liquid in a beaker. Instead I marked the point on the bottle I had received and then transferred the liquid to pre-measured bottles. I then added up the total volume of the pre-measured bottles to arrive at the total volume. Additionally I then filled the bottle from MFS with water up to the mark, and measured that volume as well. I thus had two independent numbers basically matching each other. In short, I have a deficit of 73 ml or 7.3%. Anyway even with the deficit, I now have a lifetime supply of nicotine, so I am not going to fret about it. At a minimum though, I would have liked the courtesy of a reply to any one of my e mails.

 

[clnire]

is there a standard sheet for the results or are we just putting general comments on how we vaped them and there diff/or similarities?

Cool_Breeze posted a sheet to follow. From Cool:


In absense of any other scoring cirteria for testing the 4 nicotine bases, I offer the following...

Note: For clarity of Color, we'll rely on Rossum's samplings

Each is to be on a scale of 0 to 10, or as noted.

1. State Stength of Nicotine in final mix in terms of mg/ml.

2. Genaric Description of Type of testing atomizer(s) ___________.

3. Strength of Odor, Nosed (100mg/ml) (low to high)
0 = No odor 10 = Strong Odor
A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?

4. Strength of Tobacco-Like Flavor (low to high)
0 = No Tobacco-Like Flavor 10 = Strong Tobacco-Like Flavor
A = ?, etc.

5. Strength of Pepperiness (low to high)
0 = No Pepperness 10 = High Pepperness

6. Statement: Pepperiness is / isn't (select one) a quality I seek in a nicotine base.
Is / Isn't

7. Strength of Throat Hit (low to high)
0 = Minimal TH 10 = Max TH

8. Strength of Chemical-like or other "unnatural" flavor (low to high)
0 = Minimal 10 = Max

9. Statement: Chemical-like or other "unndatural" flavor is / isn't (select one) a quality I seek in a nicotine base.
Is / Isn't

10. Best overall evaluation of Taste and Throat Hit (low to high)
0 = Minimal 10 = Max


A response should look something like below.
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. _____mg/ml
2. _____ atomizer(s)
3. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
4. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
5. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
6. Is or Isn't..?
7. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
8. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
9. Is or Isn't..?
10. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
----------------------------------------------------------------

The above scorings are for the purpose of creating a chart of results. Please MESSAGE ME with your results...please don't post your results in the thread. Certainly there are many comments that can be added, but please post those separate from those for this purpose. When the 4 Nicotine bases are identified, open discussion of testing can commence.