Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

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Bagazo

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For lack of a better word I call the waxes, oils, resin and other undesirable elements we extract "Lipids".
Seems like you are using a specific term for describing a broad selection of compounds.

Unless you filter below .01 micron you will still have a whole bunch of things in your extract that can contribute to gunk.

Don't get me wrong freeze filtering is great but it isn't just lipids or even lipid like compounds that are falling out of the cold ethanol.
 
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Exchaner

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I have had good results mixing my NET's with an equal amount of tobacco absolute, or with one of Hagsen's tobacco essence flavors such as Red USA. They are both derived from tobacco leaves and highly refined. They reduce coil gunk and enhance the flavor as well. Has anyone tried a similar approach?
 
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Str8vision

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I have had good results mixing my NET's with an equal amount of tobacco absolute, or with one of Hagsen's tobacco essence flavors such as Red USA. They are both derived from tobacco leaves and highly refined. They reduce coil gunk and enhance the flavor as well. Has anyone tried a similar approach?

I often add 2-5% of my reduced ethanol extract to a synthetic based juice like Ahlusion's Caramel Wild Wood to give it a genuine tobacco presence, it's delicious! Nicoticket's ACB, Charlie Noble's Pistachio RY-4 or Tripoli taste better with a little extra genuine tobacco added. I get the same coil/wick performance as when mixing my own flavored NET from scratch, 10-15mls before re-wicking.

If I remember correctly Hangsen uses tobacco absolute in their concentrated tobacco flavorings which could explain why they are considered one of the best manufactures for tobacco flavorings. But first you have to understand what tobacco absolute (TA), really is and how it's made. After performing a hot ethanol extraction, evaporate 98% of the ethanol off and the thick syrup remaining is tobacco absolute. Evaporate all the ethanol and you would have tobacco concrete. Tobacco absolute is nothing more than ultra concentrated tobacco extract. TA can be made using distilled water, ethanol or several hazardous solvents (that I won't identify), via simple soak solvent extraction methods. Supercritical CO2 and steam distillation extraction methods can also be used with commercial manufacturers preferring steam distillation.

The reason most TA tastes "lackluster" is that vaping/juice vendors purchase it from commercial manufacturers. These commercial manufacturers were making TA -long- before vaping appeared on the scene, the fragrance industry is their primary customer. The tobacco they use to make TA is the cheapest bulk tobacco available, the results suits the fragrance industry but isn't the best for our needs as flavor wasn't a factor or concern when it was made. TA made from premium, flavor oriented, tobacco tastes great. Try reducing a finished, filtered ethanol based tobacco extraction to its absolute form and mix juice using it. You'll wonder why all the vaping vendors peddle that bland stuff.

Personally, I reduce my ethanol extractions down by 50 - 70% after filtering. Nowhere near being TA but concentrated none the less. I normally mix these concentrated extracts between 2 - 7% and easily vape 10-15mls before re-wicking becomes necessary. Even then my coils are no worse than if vaping a flavored synthetic juice (very little gunk), but the wick seems to become saturated with something from the extract and flavor begins to taper off. I only vape flavored NET and the vanilla, caramel, nut and other concentrated flavorings I use may also contribute toward wick saturation but I suspect the tobacco extract is the main culprit.

Filtering at 1 micron helps somewhat but I believe the freeze purification process (precipitating out the oils, wax and resin), is the primary reason why my ethanol extracts perform so much better than my PG based ones.
 

Exchaner

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Great info on TA, str8. Absolutely right about its blandness which is why I mix it at a minimum of 10% VS the recommended 2-3%. It's bland even at 10%. Hangsen however calls their flavors tobacco essence, not absolute. Don't know the difference but I do know they use tobacco leaves- or so they claim. They also claim to use a unique process for filtration and otherwise.

The only NET's I have tried have been from Goodejuice - excellent products; especially Patriot and Wrangler Light. I mix them either with TA, or better yet with Hangsen Red USA. The final mixture is very very similar to the original NET - my way of reducing cost and coil gunk. I have all the necessary material to begin the ethanol extraction if only I could find the time:

Here is what I have for tobacco: Virginia, Broad Leaf Virginia, and some type of tobacco from India. It is used mainly in a Hukah, but it is not the regular sticky type generally used. This one is dry tobacco leafs.
 

Str8vision

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....Here is what I have for tobacco: Virginia, Broad Leaf Virginia, and some type of tobacco from India. It is used mainly in a Hukah, but it is not the regular sticky type generally used. This one is dry tobacco leafs.

Best of luck, let us know how each turns out. I've not had much luck extracting flavor from dryer tobaccos (including Cigars), but have yet to try heated ethanol on one.
 

Ian444

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Here is what I have for tobacco: Virginia, Broad Leaf Virginia, and some type of tobacco from India. It is used mainly in a Hukah, but it is not the regular sticky type generally used. This one is dry tobacco leafs.

I think with those tobaccos you'll get something a little bit more flavorful then a TA. After experimenting with TA's recently (still in progress) I'm coming to the conclusion that for flavor, NETs start off from where TA finishes.

I've often pondered in the past that its the casings (flavorings) added to tobacco blends, and the different combinations of different tobacco types, and their processing/curing methods, that makes NETs so tasty and natural. Straight tobacco leaf with minimal processing will yield a NET that reflects same.

If you are short of time, just soak some tobacco in PGA at room temp for a couple of months, strain it through a coffee filter and Bob's your uncle, you have a NET concentrate that can be used at around 10% to 20%. Takes 5 minutes to start it and 5 mins to filter it.
 

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Blending tobaccos is an art form not too different from the art of cooking. We have chefs, and we have tobacconists. You must have the talent to begin with, but experience helps a lot. One of my favorite flavors is called 7leaves by Flavor Art. It's a synthetic, but they have done an excellent job of blending seven different tobaccos together - Perique, Latakia, Burley, Virginia and others. The only thing missing is the smokey taste that comes from burning tobaccos leaves, and the earthy mustiness of NETs.

While we are on the subject, does anyone know if Cavendish is a tobacco leaf by itself, or a blend of others?
 

Str8vision

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While we are on the subject, does anyone know if Cavendish is a tobacco leaf by itself, or a blend of others?

Cavandish refers to tobacco that has been cured in a certain way, its not a varietal in of itself. Makes a pretty tasty (but gunky), NET in my opinion. Brings out the flavor in Burley.
 

Str8vision

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It rained a few days and I had to cease work on my house and property. Stuck inside with free time on my hands I conducted two hot ethanol extractions last Friday, first up was Cornell & Diehl "Billy Bud" a pipe tobacco that has a generous portion of maduro cigar leaf in the blend. Second was a two year old La Flor Dominicana double Ligero cigar I had on hand. I've been wanting to play around with/modify the extraction procedure and so processed the Billy Bud @ <150F for 18 hours, and the La Flor cigar @ <150F for 24 hours.

The results were interesting, both extracts had difficulty flowing through a coffee filter when separating the solvent from the tobacco, each took about five minutes for 40ml of solvent. There was a significant amount of sediment contained in both extracts, far more than when extracting @ 160+F for 12 hours. After 24 hours in the freezer both, once again, had difficulty flowing through a coffee filter due to the wax, oil and resin content that had precipitated out, both took over five minutes while at -10F. At room temperature I then gravity filtered both extracts three passes through a 1 micron borosilicate glass filter quite easily.

The extract of Billy Bud looks like flat cola, it's that dark. The extract of the La Flor cigar is tan colored but darker than a room temperature ethanol extraction of the same cigar from two years earlier. After a 50+% reduction, I'll mix some up and sample the results.
 

Str8vision

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Ok str8, I've decided to give this a whirl this weekend using some of my Virginia flu cured leaf. Good write up! Everclear, right?

Yep, PGA/Everclear or any brand of Pure Grain Alcohol >195 proof. Remember though, heated ethanol is a method of extraction I'm still experimenting with. Have fun! :)
 

Str8vision

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A thought on ethanol extraction and proof. Whiskey makers have determined the optimal proof for extracting oak (barreling) flavor to be 125 pr (62.5%). Is there any reason to believe that might hold to tobacco as well?

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Perhaps not, it may work well for tobacco too. 125 proof alcohol is around 62% ethanol and 37% water. A 60/40 ethanol/water blended solvent is also used when extracting flavor from vanilla beans to make vanilla extract. A 60/40 VG/water blended solvent is used when extracting vanilla beans to make vanilla glycerite. For flavor extraction there does appear to be some potential benefit to that ethanol/water ratio because that specific blend keeps popping up.

For better or worse 40% water would effect the flavor extracted. I experimented with water/PG blended solvents in the past and didn't really notice any benefit or adverse effect, but I wasn't using 40% water either. The rub -might- be that water mixed with the ethanol would make the blended solvent much more difficult to evaporate off (reduce). Reduction is necessary before mixing NET (to keep the water/ethanol ratio acceptably low in the NET), or when transferring the flavor into VG/PG. Water is readily absorbed by VG and PG and once absorbed it's very difficult to remove/separate.
 

aceswired

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What's your laws on growing your own tobacco?
Heirloom Tobacco Seeds for Sale - Sustainable Seed Co.

"country boys can survive.................."

Samuel Gawith 1792 Flake,Dark Bird's Eye and Five Brothers. These will be my first ethanol extractions.
Wow, of the few I've done, one is 5 Brothers (meh) and 1792 is macerating as we speak. In fairness, the 5 Bros was a PG maceration. I see this was from May - have you tried them yet?

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usr/

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Wow, of the few I've done, one is 5 Brothers (meh) and 1792 is macerating as we speak. In fairness, the 5 Bros was a PG maceration. I see this was from May - have you tried them yet?

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I have not had the chance to get them extracted yet. They're still bagged and boxed. Back in March when the garden was ready to start working, since then I been picking, canning, freezing,weeding, replanting, non stop seems like, I took a break from the NETs. Actually started mixing and using Hangsen tobaccos along with Inawera Absolutes and some concentrate TA's, with very good results. Did this mainly due to maintenance involved with NET (re wicking and dry burning, blending and aging). The Hangsen flavors are very coil and wick friendly and they taste great. Started reading in the Hangsen and Favorite Tobacco Flavor Discussion and kinda got hooked on them. Back in March I started 5 100% PG extracts:


Blending - Blended Turkish Ribbon, Blending - Cigar Leaf, Blending - Dark Fired Kentucky Burley, Blending - Izmir Ribbon Cut, Hearth & Home Signature Caramel Apple Pie


all from Pipes and Cigars. I just kinda forgot about them. Just now getting around to getting these separated and filtered. They seem to be just fine even with a 6 month soak. Still smell fresh with no off odor. I started with Izmir Ribbon Cut. When I separated it from the rough, the only thing I did notice was the viscosity of the PG in the mixture had become very thin. Normally a syrupy, viscous liquid, it has become thin and almost watery. I've never let one go this long, so not sure if just time in the tobacco begin to break down the PG. I hope they're Ok, they seem to be. They are certainly filtering faster. Right now I'm taking the Izmir down to 1.5 micron. Normally a 30+ hour drip, it's been about 16 hours or so and it's nearing completion already. It will probably be done in 24 hours. Anybody with any thoughts on the PG viscosity, maybe this being a bad thing, I would appreciate any feed back. But getting back on topic I have plans for this heated ethanol extraction process, just haven't gotten it into motion yet. Have been considering refining a method I have used for washing left over rough from an extract. There just seems to be a lot of goodness left in the rough from an extraction when its separated. Thought of making a PGA/PG (75/25) solution to give the rough a heated wash and using this extract itself as just a flavor additive to the same blend that I'm mixing, if that makes any sense. It's all a long process and you could make a career out this, just blending, aging and testing different tobaccos. But it's also a lot of fun, too! I just need to keep better notes.
 
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Bunnykiller

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A thought on ethanol extraction and proof. Whiskey makers have determined the optimal proof for extracting oak (barreling) flavor to be 125 pr (62.5%). Is there any reason to believe that might hold to tobacco as well?

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it may work well if one has the intention to drink it ;)
 
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