Oh Gods won't you guys stop it with the terrible analogies?
Using bad analogies in a discussion is like putting catsup on spaghetti noodles.
Using bad analogies in a discussion is like putting catsup on spaghetti noodles.
Clone Versus Authentic Discussion
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The reason why authentics are so darn expensive is they are milled in America of Europe where the cost of living is much higher than designing the RDA, tank mod here then having the authentic actually built in China, India, Malaysia. So the cost doesn't rip your lungs out.
With the cost of taxes, governmental regulations they have to bring in $100-150 an hour per machinist in America and Europe.
Make the mod, RDA. tank in Asia on C2C mill the devixe on a c2c mill everything comes out perfect and you lowered the cost to 1/4th.
If the Veritas authentic was made on c2c in Asia they could lower the price and destroy the cloners.
I would be willing to pay $15-20 more for an authentic but will not pay $60 more for the authentic.
I don't get why it would be bad, from consumer perspective, to buy a clone where trademark is ripped off? I also don't get why outright theft from a consumer perspective would be bad? Can a pro-clone person explain these things to me?
It doesn't offend me. The decision to buy authentic or clone is each person's decision.
Since you choose to air your opinion, you object to me voicing mine? As I've stated, I have purchased clones. Using them helps me decide if I want to purchase the authentic. If the clone is good, I will, if possible purchase an authentic (they aren't always available) to give credit to the modder. That is my decision. What you do is your business.
The reason why authentics are MORE expensive is because you pay for their intellectual property. You pay for their invention, design and time; and in some cases higher production cost.
Stainless steel, copper, brass, plastic, derlin, etc with same specifications are the same be in china or everywhere else in the world. Why china can produce something priced a third or cheaper of the same item of the same quality? because they just copy. They don't need to invent. They are just stealing someone else design and make a high precision copy.
Can china / cloners invent an authentic something in that price range?
Of course they can if they want to price it that low, but even they will charge you an intellectual property fee. The cost to invent something.
Take example Wotofo.
A cloning company based in china which now venture into making authentic. Creator of freakshow & troll rda
Wotofo sell a cloned SMPL mod by epic design but rebrand it under A-mod Logo. Same design Same button just different logo. They even call it "A-mod SMPL" to ease out people its basically a clone authentic SMPL. Price $23.99
While their authentic, an original design called phantom mod run retail for $49.99.
Why cant they sell it for $23.99 too? is it that much harder to machine a phantom mod compared to a a-mod smpl? does it take much more material / metal to create phantom mod to justify twice the price?
From a technical stand of point, NO. It takes roughly the same material to create both
Even the cloners charge for intellectual property.
Clone is stealing. Clone is counterfeit.
It takes high level of time to design and invent something from nothing.
Think if everyone buying clone.. who's there to invent? why bother creating something of that much of your time knowing your product will be counterfeited. Clone markets put a pressure toward those creators into lowering their price. They can only lower that price up to a certain level. Below that price, if you are the creator, would you even bother? spend that much of your time for that little profit? To most of them its not just a hobby to make something in spare time; they dedicate their time and life to earn living from making these goods.
Some vaping gears are also targeted toward a high-end market. Just like HERMES / ROLEX / HUBLOT / LOUISVUITTON / PRADA to name a few, they dont target it for everyone, just to certain market.
Are you the type who buy cloned watches and bags?
They've been cloned 1:1 to perfection too you know in case you are interested.
If you are blessed enough to buy authentic. Great you are supporting them for more invention.
If you don't. Save up some money. Its not that much of an investment compared to cigarette or other things in life. Most of them are even lower than a pair of your sneakers.
If you cant buy a high-end product then buy something geared toward your budget. Those Atomizer / Mod comes in variety of price range.
If you still cant afford the cheapest authentic, maybe its time to re-think about what you do in life or stop this vaping game.
If you still mumbling that clone is exactly same quality as authentic for quarter of the price. Yes some of them are that great that its hard to even tell the different and justify the price. But then you are supporting COUNTERFEIT. No different than with buying fake ROLEX, PRADA and DVD to name a few.
Buy authentic, be proud, support this small community of vaping.
But its all comes down to you. Your decision.
No love for clone. Thats where i stand.
Stainless steel, copper, brass, plastic, derlin, etc with same specifications are the same be in china or everywhere else in the world. Why china can produce something priced a third or cheaper of the same item of the same quality? because they just copy. They don't need to invent. They are just stealing someone else design and make a high precision copy.
Can china / cloners invent an authentic something in that price range?
Of course they can if they want to price it that low, but even they will charge you an intellectual property fee. The cost to invent something.
Take example Wotofo.
A cloning company based in china which now venture into making authentic. Creator of freakshow & troll rda
Wotofo sell a cloned SMPL mod by epic design but rebrand it under A-mod Logo. Same design Same button just different logo. They even call it "A-mod SMPL" to ease out people its basically a clone authentic SMPL. Price $23.99
While their authentic, an original design called phantom mod run retail for $49.99.
Why cant they sell it for $23.99 too? is it that much harder to machine a phantom mod compared to a a-mod smpl? does it take much more material / metal to create phantom mod to justify twice the price?
From a technical stand of point, NO. It takes roughly the same material to create both
Even the cloners charge for intellectual property.
Clone is stealing. Clone is counterfeit.
It takes high level of time to design and invent something from nothing.
Think if everyone buying clone.. who's there to invent? why bother creating something of that much of your time knowing your product will be counterfeited. Clone markets put a pressure toward those creators into lowering their price. They can only lower that price up to a certain level. Below that price, if you are the creator, would you even bother? spend that much of your time for that little profit? To most of them its not just a hobby to make something in spare time; they dedicate their time and life to earn living from making these goods.
Some vaping gears are also targeted toward a high-end market. Just like HERMES / ROLEX / HUBLOT / LOUISVUITTON / PRADA to name a few, they dont target it for everyone, just to certain market.
Are you the type who buy cloned watches and bags?
They've been cloned 1:1 to perfection too you know in case you are interested.
If you are blessed enough to buy authentic. Great you are supporting them for more invention.
If you don't. Save up some money. Its not that much of an investment compared to cigarette or other things in life. Most of them are even lower than a pair of your sneakers.
If you cant buy a high-end product then buy something geared toward your budget. Those Atomizer / Mod comes in variety of price range.
If you still cant afford the cheapest authentic, maybe its time to re-think about what you do in life or stop this vaping game.
If you still mumbling that clone is exactly same quality as authentic for quarter of the price. Yes some of them are that great that its hard to even tell the different and justify the price. But then you are supporting COUNTERFEIT. No different than with buying fake ROLEX, PRADA and DVD to name a few.
Buy authentic, be proud, support this small community of vaping.
But its all comes down to you. Your decision.
No love for clone. Thats where i stand.
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If you are upset about China ripping off patents and cloning products, all I can say is TOO BAD.
Never mind vaping mods...china clones EVERYTHING. Within a couple of weeks of the iphone coming out, they had a clone already selling in china, with their own app store, and the device was better in a number of ways.
Seriously...you name it, china has or will rip it off.
They just ripped off the Model S car:
Youxia Electric Tesla Clone From China: So Bad It Makes Us Laugh
And there is NOTHING you or anyone else can do about it.
Never mind vaping mods...china clones EVERYTHING. Within a couple of weeks of the iphone coming out, they had a clone already selling in china, with their own app store, and the device was better in a number of ways.
Seriously...you name it, china has or will rip it off.
They just ripped off the Model S car:
Youxia Electric Tesla Clone From China: So Bad It Makes Us Laugh
And there is NOTHING you or anyone else can do about it.
Sure there is. Don't buy the counterfeit products. Without customers the crime won't take place...
There probably are clone Jaguars in China.
As for Chinese innovation at clone prices, I own these and they are good products:
3 Sigelei 100W mods
1 Sigelei 50W mod
2 Yihi sx mini s class mods
2 Yihi sx mini m class mods
1 p4u ipv1 mod
UD Aga t7 atty
UD Aga t5 atty
Lemo
eXpromizer (German design, machined in China)
EHPro Epoch D1
EHPro mini buddha
Aromamizer RDTA
Focloud
Hobbit
Cthulhu
Aqua SE (Korean, machined in China)
HCigar HC Plus
I have a couple other Chinese authentics like isticks, but can't really say they're good quality, lol!
However, they most certainly can develop good products that aren't copies. I don't understand why people think they can't.
As for Chinese innovation at clone prices, I own these and they are good products:
3 Sigelei 100W mods
1 Sigelei 50W mod
2 Yihi sx mini s class mods
2 Yihi sx mini m class mods
1 p4u ipv1 mod
UD Aga t7 atty
UD Aga t5 atty
Lemo
eXpromizer (German design, machined in China)
EHPro Epoch D1
EHPro mini buddha
Aromamizer RDTA
Focloud
Hobbit
Cthulhu
Aqua SE (Korean, machined in China)
HCigar HC Plus
I have a couple other Chinese authentics like isticks, but can't really say they're good quality, lol!
However, they most certainly can develop good products that aren't copies. I don't understand why people think they can't.
I just don't get why people here get so upset and bothered about this. It's none of their business what other people do or buy. You will NOT stop people from doing it. Just leave it alone.
Who's upset? It does make vaping look bad that so many vapers support criminal enterprise, but I don't care about regulations or what others think about vaping or vapers...
Threads like this one should not exist. These conversations are always started by people who have a problem with clones. In this forum, we should only be concerned about vaping.
The same could be said about a lot of threads. Criminal enterprise makes vaping look bad, why allow 'clone' threads or discussion of where to buy them? If people want vaping to be taken seriously the criminal element has to stop...
Same could be said with the kids issue, vaping in public issue, stealing trademarks, outright stealing of product, getting non-smokers to vape, shall I go on?
Whether kids ought to be able to vape nicotine. I observe they always will and that no adult (or group of adults) will ever stop this. So, why would any vaper resist this when it is none of their business?
If kids are vaping, it's the parents fault. It has nothing to do with clones.
Why is it anyone's fault? It is arguably a good thing if it is being done. Filling a need. Why is it any of your business?
New studies say we are born morally good.. but some dont..
If you have a hard time justifying buying a clone is supporting criminal / counterfeit, then you know which babies you are. Thats what laws are made for.
Seems like the one who bought clones are the one who easily get offended.. somehow.. for the reason we all know why.
Right or Wrong, your decision, your understanding, your morality.
If you have a hard time justifying buying a clone is supporting criminal / counterfeit, then you know which babies you are. Thats what laws are made for.
Seems like the one who bought clones are the one who easily get offended.. somehow.. for the reason we all know why.
Right or Wrong, your decision, your understanding, your morality.
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