That's kind of the impression I got. Not that I know of, but if a lot of e-liquids are tested in the same way and only some come up with high numbers, what does that mean?
Five Pawns now on ECF
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That's kind of the impression I got. Not that I know of, but if a lot of e-liquids are tested in the same way and only some come up with high numbers, what does that mean?
I'm not being rude at all. I know quite well why you are following this thread. Ask Rob your questions. The foor is all yours.
Why did c9 only test a few liquids? Some random brands and a big name like 5p? You can't be that short sided to think numbers posted that flagrantly off from several tests that have come out since, that there was no negative intention on c9s part.
Your own comment proves my point... If theres no financial gain for c9 then why pay to run tests on a product you are going to "stop selling anyway?" why post the results at all?
No idea. Not how I would conduct business. If I were Cloud 9 I would have contacted 5Pawns with the results. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It just seems like there is too much unknown at this point, too long of a delay in answers, too much heresy, too much revision on blogs/websites, alleged e-mails. Not getting out in front of the controversy probably did far more harm than an immediate explanation would have...
I'm not being rude at all. I know quite well why you are following this thread. Ask Rob your questions. The foor is all yours.
What? I'm following the thread because I am interested in 5P's responses. If I have a question that have not already been asked, then I will ask. I will feel free to ask, and your approval is not necessary, or even considered. Now, don't let the truth hurt so bad.
I snipped (being transparent)
Because you don't know you're going to stop selling them until you run the test. And because they probably ran tests in their own liquids and knew they were DA/AP and wanted to flaunt it. And you post it because it's financially beneficial in the current vaping climate (wanting diketone free products). So you show how your products are diketone free and make a big show of removing the worst offenders that you carry. I didn't say that they were saintly and benevolent care takers of us vapers. But it is financially beneficial to flaunt your own diketone free character in this climate, and 5P response (and own test results) suggests they weren't way off base, and that's the MOST favorable interpretation for 5P (their control of the sample, their preferred method).
Good points^ A lot of things could have been handled differently or better. But the way I see it is the 5p guys are on here engaging us and I appreciate that. If c9 got on here I would provide them the same respect. But c9 fired the first shot and have been dark ever since seems kind of suspect IMO.
What is exact?
And there is a general air of deception in 5P dealings because of the lengthy paragraphs of how testing is all over the place in terms of results, then 5P publishing results and using the exact level of those results as a launchpad for an argument about how they have safe levels of DA/AP....
I think I have read through the thread but must have missed this response from 5Pawns. A simple answer would do. Have they ever sold e-liquid containing diacetyl or AP?
I agree with this. However, an open forum topic is probably the WORST place to expect this kind of dialog with low noise-to-signal ratio, because of the ability and probability that so many people will jump into the topic......everyone's brain works a little differently and their top concerns and questions are of different priorities.
I do agree that Rob made a "good faith" move to come on and expose himself to all these direct questions, but I think a topic like this requires a different format, perhaps a moderated Q&A session or something, on a radio show or something, where Q's can be set up beforehand and the subject matter can then be covered.
Because the person being asked questions barely has time to answer one when each reply brings 10 more questions to him.
Give him time to answer each question before asking 10 more!
As for testing, what little I know is that setting the detection limit is everything. And labs do not use the same setting.
the company who is my main vendor has some ejuices that are below detection level, some that have either da/ap but well below the minimum acceptable levels, and others got "flagged" for retesting/reformulating (even though they were not what anyone, even myself, would consider "high" levels)
I only chose the below level of detection to vape. That's probably "as good as I can get" so I'm not sure WHAT other vapers are asking for.
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I was under the impression it was on their website and blog before it was removed. Is that fact?
That's not (entirely) accurate. The results generally show "not detected" and then protocols will usually identify detection limits. Others will say it is below a threshold and claim "not detected." Thus trace amounts are present. I'm pretty sure everyone acutely aware of this issue is not expecting zero. If you are, then you are not acutely aware of this issue.
You claimed before that the issue was the dishonesty. I brought up example of dishonesty and now you say you don't care.
Reason why this thread is off on many tangents is cause starting on page 1, some of you all are lodging your claims with emphasis, then 1 page later changing your mind about "what is really the issue." Thus, this goes beyond 5P and being open dialogue needs more than just 5P addressing the nonsense of those who are inconsistent with what they say they are "really after."
Their nic levels being slightly off, if it was, isn't dishonesty, just poor manufacturing practices... Stating one's e-liquid contains no diecetyl or AP when it does, if that is the case,would be dishonest...
Not sure...
Impressions and perceptions differ among people everyday.
I could say that I for one was never under that impression.
Jim
Isn't that the root cause of the controversy? If they never said their liquids didn't contain diacetyl or AP, then there is no issue if they test positive for them...
The claim is that their eLiquid contains zero nic. It is advertised this way. If it contains any, then according to this (exact) discussion, they are being dishonest. Being "off" in this case equals any nic, in the liquid. I would say C9 is cut a lot of slack because vast majority aware of the issue are nic users and probably think .01% nic is such a tiny issue, who could possibly care. But then some of same people are up in arms with a percentage of .0006% of DA being in liquid as if that is such a huge deal.
Hopefully I've explained the above situation so you can stay consistent with your claims of dishonesty a little better.
Yes, they have sold eLiquid containing these 2 compounds. On their site they claimed they did not add diacetyl to their liquids.
As noted on this thread, they had a particular customer service rep telling people that their liquids were DA/AP free. They've addressed how that went down and how they handled it from a customer service angle.
To me, the issue is about people so desperately wanting to hear that information, they will rely on vendors (solely) and put all their eggs in that basket, as if that is not a matter of faith (rather than science). As I've consistently said, if you truly cared about this in your liquid, you'd do your own testing. Instead, we have a consumer base that has set industry up to be PC with regards to this issue, and is why you get claims like "we don't add it to our liquid."
If you find vendors that are doing exactly what you think needs to be done, and you fully trust their protocols, then why wouldn't you stick to those vendors instead of trying to change other vendors into what you think is best practices for the industry? Cause so far, all of the other practices currently on the table amount to faith, not science.
*You - in this post is the general "you" as I'm fairly certain stevegmu doesn't care a whole heckuvalot about the politics of the DA/AP issue.
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