Arkansas ACT 1235 (SB978) Shuts Down Online Sales

[skoony]

I disagree I feel the law was written to cover one thing, the flow of premade eliquids because it can be treated in the exact same manner as cigarettes/tobacco products.

With this bill concentrating on premade eliquids they will raise revenue for the state with new business permits, fines in violations on a business/individual basis, they also put the identical paper trail in place as with cigarettes/other tobacco products to set it up for future taxation in the exact same manner as such which will also raise revenue for the state, they also can effectively control it utilizing the existing manpower they now have in place for tobacco control to minimize the cost of control... so if you add it up
+Business permits
+Fines
+Taxation
+Using existing manpower for control
= Serious win all the way around for the state.

They have no reason go after things they could not effectively tax or will have a difficult/impossible time controlling costing them in additional manpower resulting in a loss of revenue for the state.


ETA: not to mention how good they look for control on no sales to minors and product quality controls

i am not saying they are going to do anything about DIY initially.
i have read the bill. if they want to go after DIY they most certainly can.
when they start taxing the juice which they will eventually and juice becomes
more of a luxury item than a regular commodity it might cause a lot of people
to start DIYing. if it starts affecting revenue streams of the state and the vendors
who jumped through all the hoops all that needs to be done is the tobacco board
interpreting the law to put a stop to it. there will be no need to get further law
passed.
i said this about the Indiana law and it seems to apply to this one. these newer
laws are written in such a way as to cover a lot of scenarios. they can say they are
only going to do this or that. later on they can can say we are going to do this
also as its covered in the law.this way they can see where all the cards are going
to fall and act accordingly.

regards
mike

 

[skoony]

I don't know what B&Ms you're talking to that said there was any tax increase. Every manufacture I've spoken with hasn't said "sucks to be you" They all ask what they need to do if anything in order to comply.

Maybe I'm an ... for thinking this way, but honestly the licensing and all needed to be done. Why? Because it stops or slows people down trying to open a shop to mix juice on the cheap for fast profit, among other things. Not everyone is good people, not everyone cares about you. This is forcing basic structuring.
Is it setting up for future taxes? Well of course. They had to put the business type somewhere.. Did you want pharma? Does that mean it's getting taxed? No. Will it? That's up to the 13 people that will probably show up to the Capitol like last time.


Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

there are no taxes now.
regulations are precursors to taxation.
the administrative costs of the new requirements
have to be paid for. inspections and enforcement.
a cut for the states general fund etc..,etc... .
i for one see no need other than the sanitary
regulation concerning handling food.
those are already on the books.
if you understand that the ingredients in e-juice
are recognized as GRAS and are FDA food grade or
better it means they are already made to strict
government regulations and standards.
the actual process of making juice is inherently
easy,simple and,safe.
as long as a little care is taken in making sure
the nicotine levels are accurate the worst possible
thing that could happen would be a batch of bad
tasting juice. i realize no one wants bad tasting
juice but,its not going to kill you.
i have no fear of those so-called people that are
going to whip up a batch of poison to make a profit.
that's fear mongering. to adulterate e-juice one would
have to do so deliberately with malice and aforethought
or be negligent beyond belief. no laws or regulations
will stop that.
basically making e-juice is measuring and mixing 4 or
5 ingredients with hopefully clean mixing containers and
utensils. its not extracting plutonium.
the only thing these regulations do is prevent people
from starting a business on their own and obtaining the
American Dream.

regards
mike

 

[Racehorse]

when they start taxing the juice which they will eventually and juice becomes
more of a luxury item than a regular commodity it might cause a lot of people
to start DIYing.

Seems like an extra $1.15 on a 30ml bottle (which is probably what it will come to) isn't really going to turn eliquid into a luxury item for those who buy pre-made eliquid when the times comes to tax it.

Keep in mind that many DIYers already think of vendor eliquid as a luxury item

I doubt very much that they will go after DIY. In fact, I would almost say "not gonna happen". And you are correct, DIY is pretty easy.

 

[BuGlen]

Seems like an extra $1.15 on a 30ml bottle (which is probably what it will come to) isn't really going to turn eliquid into a luxury item for those who buy pre-made eliquid when the times comes to tax it.

Keep in mind that many DIYers already think of vendor eliquid as a luxury item

I doubt very much that they will go after DIY. In fact, I would almost say "not gonna happen". And you are correct, DIY is pretty easy.

It might start out low ($1.15 per 30ml), but it won't stay that way for long once smokers start converting in large numbers. Arkansas received ~$50 million last year from MSA payments, and if I'm reading their tax revenue statements correctly, they collected about the same ($50 million) in tobacco taxes in that same time frame. It has been reported that they've only allocated about 35% of the MSA payment money to smoking cessation programs and education, which means that all of the rest of that money (~$82.5 million) is going toward other special projects and the general fund. It's also worth mentioning that as of the middle of last year, Arkansas has about ~$96.8 million in outstanding tobacco bonds on which it has to make good on dividend payments.

Tobacco Bonds May Be Dangerous to Your State's Financial Health
Tobacco Bonds May Be Dangerous to Your State's Financial Health

 

[YoursTruli]

I think the taxation is going to fall to how they do the math. So far most states that have proposed a tax on eliquid have tried to equate ML to cigarettes.

In Ohio Gov. John Kasich proposed a massive tax on vapor products that would equate to about $34 on a 30ml bottle eliquid....Thank You extremely exaggerated ecig ads for saying 1 cig-alike is equivalent to 1 packs of cigs, 30 packs of cigs at the current state tax rate of $1.25 a pack..... yeah it could get that crazy.... (thankfully that got shot down here but some are still pushing for taxes on eliquid to be included in the final bill).

I only hope that those AR residents who are upset and speaking out here (and elsewhere) about this new AR law will now be proactive with your government and speak out to them before the taxes are imposed and watch for them, because they are sure to come.

 

[BabyCrusher]

We work very closely and have an open line with the ATC. I'm not a vendor, I just work very closely with them and the few actively advocating.

We have two years to influence our officials about the industry and how taxation would be detrimental.

However, the FDA is about to make or break everything. What we do in state isn't going to matter if the FDA forces ridiculous regulations to strangle us out.

I watched the workshops, and was dumbfounded how little information these organizations were presenting. Their main concern is the kids. Whatever. Country of victims.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[DC2]

So CASSA and or tbe Vaping Militia are challenging this in court?

I would think SFATA would be the more reasonable and more likely choice.

But this might be a big enough deal for CASAA and/or the Vaping Militia to get involved.
Assuming they have the funds, of course.

SFATA certainly must have access to far more funding though.

 

[Lessifer]

I would think SFATA would be the more reasonable and more likely choice.

But this might be a big enough deal for CASAA and/or the Vaping Militia to get involved.
Assuming they have the funds, of course.

SFATA certainly must have access to far more funding though.

Would a consumer group be the ones to sue over a regulatory licensing issue? I would think it would have to come from someone who could show actual harm. Like a business that can no longer sell directly online in the state. I'm not really sure how all of that works though. Just seems like something for the industry side of things.

 

[stevegmu]

My guess is Arkansas has been abandoned by the so called activists or advocacy groups. Rather than fight what seems like a relatively easy case, set a precedent and prevent the spread to other states, nothing will be done by those who so loudly profess to protect the rights of vapers.
Here's a good start on research-

COMMERCE CLAUSE IN CYBERSPACE

 

[Racehorse]

We have two years to influence our officials about the industry and how taxation would be detrimental.

By that time, other states will be "copying" the AR model.

Meanwhile...how many Arkansas vapers are even in this topic?

I count 4, and that includes myself, and the topic has been up for 12 days.

so 2 years sounds pretty good.

However, the FDA is about to make or break everything.

I think their main concern is kids and consumer safety.

Once all the eliquid sales are "corralled" like wild mustangs taken off the prairie, invoices kept and sold thru permits, my gut feeling is that the FDA will not go much past any of that to be satisfied.

 

[stevegmu]

By that time, other states will be "copying" the AR model.

Meanwhile...how many Arkansas vapers are even in this topic?



I think their main concern is kids and consumer safety.

Once all the eliquid sales are "corralled" like wild mustangs taken off the prairie, invoices kept and sold thru permits, my gut feeling is that the FDA will not go much past any of that to be satisfied.

Yeah, my guess is ingredients listed, warning labels, safety caps, packaging requirements and advertising. Not much else from the FDA. Anything of significance will happen on the state level...

 

[AndriaD]

Seems like an extra $1.15 on a 30ml bottle (which is probably what it will come to) isn't really going to turn eliquid into a luxury item for those who buy pre-made eliquid when the times comes to tax it.

Keep in mind that many DIYers already think of vendor eliquid as a luxury item

I doubt very much that they will go after DIY. In fact, I would almost say "not gonna happen". And you are correct, DIY is pretty easy.

It's a *luxury-priced* item that does not live up to any expectations based on that price -- I haven't tasted a single commercial ejuice that I couldn't improve, even if just with a bit more sweetener. None of it has much taste to me; my own, with 30% flavoring, I can TASTE!

I'm just really glad a) I DIY, b) I have about 4 yrs worth of nicotine in the freezer, and c) I live in GA, where the lawmakers are surprisingly sane on the subject of vaping. There are a few jurisdictions that have passed no-vaping laws in their gov't bldgs, and of course the liberal educational system has banned it on all campuses along with smoking, but otherwise, not a single stupid regulation yet about vaping or vape-related items. I think the high percentage of folks down here that still smoke has made the lawmakers aware in a very personal sense of the high cost of smoking -- disease and death. It doesn't seem to me that they're ranking the state coffers ahead of that particular cost. But GA seems to like bucking the system -- our lawmakers are STILL fighting Obamacare, and have not jumped on the bandwagon for it -- you have to actually be POOR to qualify for Medicaid in this state, they just don't hand it out willy-nilly.

Andria

 

[Rossum]

I doubt very much that they will go after DIY. In fact, I would almost say "not gonna happen".

Weren't there a lot of people who thought that about RYO tobacco?

 

[stevegmu]

Weren't there a lot of people who thought that about RYO tobacco?

Yeah, I RYO my last 3.5 years of smoking. There was always talk on the forums of it being banned, but it never was. Some states like NY cracked down and I had to provide a copy of my DL to my vendor when I ordered online, but it never became expensive or hard to get. The last couple years or so I smoked I moved where I am now and could buy it 1/2 mile away at a tobacco store. $16 for 16oz. of Kentucky Select Organic...

 

[Rossum]

$16 for 16oz. of Kentucky Select Organic...

"Pipe tobacco", eh?

 

[stevegmu]

"Pipe tobacco", eh?

Oh, yeah, Class D, I believe. Delicious. I actually got a morning nic. buzz from it it was so strong, and it had no added chemicals...

 

[Rossum]

What would it have cost if it were labelled correctly as cigarette tobacco?

It will be tough for 'em to "go after" PG, VG, or flavorings, but I expect they'll clamp down n DIY the same way thay went after RYO, with outrageous taxes on nic base. Unfortunately, there won't be a way to cheat on that by mis-labeling the product.

 

[KattMamma]

yep the 2800% tax increase on RYO CIG tobacco killed it's availability. If you can even still find it here, it's about $60 a pound. And forget buying online. Pipe tobacco "had to do" the last few years I did RYO but I didn't like it as near as much - much stronger taste, and the fire was more likely to fall off.

 

[OldBatty]

I live in GA, where the lawmakers are surprisingly sane on the subject of vaping.
(snips)
Andria

Also the third lowest state tobacco tax in the US, so less tax to loose.

Have a political action idea I would like to float past you (and NorthofAtlanta if he sees this) Permission to PM you?

 

[AndriaD]

Also the third lowest state tobacco tax in the US, so less tax to loose.

Have a political action idea I would like to float past you (and NorthofAtlanta if he sees this) Permission to PM you?

Sure, but no permission required... I read everything that pops up on the "Alerts" thingie up there....

Andria