Another Avoidable Mod "Incident"

[Papillon61]

This was not a battery venting. This was a hard short from the atomizer housing coming into direct contact with the battery resulting in an explosion where the bottom switch, being the softest part of the set up, is blown off. It's pretty obvious the Pharaoh is a hybrid with no delrin insulation and the Herakles atomizer, like most atties that take coil heads, does not have a centre pin that protrudes enough and is not adjustable. I speak from personal experience.

 

[Lessifer]

This was not a battery venting. This was a hard short from the atomizer housing coming into direct contact with the battery resulting in an explosion where the bottom switch, being the softest part of the set up, is blown off. It's pretty obvious the Pharaoh is a hybrid with no delrin insulation and the Herakles atomizer, like most atties that take coil heads, does not have a centre pin that protrudes enough and is not adjustable. I speak from personal experience.

Yeah, this is nearly identical to what happened to you. You obviously took a different path in "reporting" the incident, to which I again say, thank you.

 

[skoony]

Yeah, that guy. That flare gun was early speculation - later more info came out but pretty sure it was a hybrid mod where any mistake can be - well, harmful.....

under the heading i have to learn to archive.there was a thread on facebook.
the picture of the supposed mod was in fact an emergency flare gun.
a one shot device the size and shape of a pen. it appeared to have been
modified.
regards
mike.

 

[Kent C]

under the heading i have to learn to archive.there was a thread on facebook.
the picture of the supposed mod was in fact an emergency flare gun.
a one shot device the size and shape of a pen. it appeared to have been
modified.
regards
mike.

That's a different one then. When I have time I'll do a search.

 

[skoony]

That's a different one then. When I have time I'll do a search.

found it. from ...................
http://..................com/threads/ bs-article-e-cigarette-explodes-killing-smoker-actually-its-a-pen-gun.23110/
The Star Online /Ballpen-gun-not-e-cigarette/

 

[Kent C]

found it. from ...................
http://..................com/threads/ bs-article-e-cigarette-explodes-killing-smoker-actually-its-a-pen-gun.23110/
The Star Online /Ballpen-gun-not-e-cigarette/

Both links are 404 here but I googled the last and it's not the same story to which I referred.


Floating around facebook | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Lessifer]

I don't believe this one is a hoax, though I wish the person would have handled it differently. The faux hybrid mods are not for beginners. Mechs in general are not for beginners, but these in particular have what some consider to be a flaw in their design. If you use an atomizer that does not have a protruding center pin, or worse one that has a floating center pin, you will likely short the battery by making a direct connection of the negative 510 threads to the positive of the battery.

Whose responsibility it is to ensure that the user is informed of this fact is a subject of much debate. I have a mod like this(not this particular one), I was aware of this fact before I purchased it, I did not receive any materials with the mod detailing this.

 

[jpargana]

I don't believe this one is a hoax, though I wish the person would have handled it differently. The faux hybrid mods are not for beginners. Mechs in general are not for beginners, but these in particular have what some consider to be a flaw in their design. If you use an atomizer that does not have a protruding center pin, or worse one that has a floating center pin, you will likely short the battery by making a direct connection of the negative 510 threads to the positive of the battery.

Whose responsibility it is to ensure that the user is informed of this fact is a subject of much debate. I have a mod like this(not this particular one), I was aware of this fact before I purchased it, I did not receive any materials with the mod detailing this.

This.

By it's own design, a mod can be dangerous - no matter what your experience level is (*).

On top of that, make a new type of mod that has what many people could consider a design flaw (I mean, is the added conductivity really worth the risk of that specific design ?), sell it to a newbie with no clear instructions (and the newbie *could* simply not read them, anyway) and you have an accident just waiting to happen.


(*) More than one year into mechs, I *could* have had a serious problem with my Gizmo. I usually check the resistance after building the coil, after screwing the chimney on the deck, and right before mounting the atomizer on the mod. It was all good, at 1.4 ohms, until I fired it in the mod. The button was instantly too hot. The current was enough to partially de-magnetize the switch. All that current was going thru a 18500, not even a 18650 (I really liked the Gizmo because it is small).

When I removed the atty and checked again, it was at 0.04 ohms !!! Something made an internal contact at the very last time.

If was a noob, still unaware of the little tell-tale signs that something really bad is about to happen, things could have been different. With a relatively safe mod, and not even a sub-ohm coil.

Bottom line: if I had melted that Gizmo, I would not make a fool of myself by trying to bring someone to a court of law. The moment *we* start making our own coils instead of buying them factory-made, then *we* must assume there is some risk (as with everything in life), and if anything bad happens, only blame *ourselves*.

 

[Racehorse]

This was not a battery venting. This was a hard short from the atomizer housing coming into direct contact with the battery resulting in an explosion where the bottom switch, being the softest part of the set up, is blown off. It's pretty obvious the Pharaoh is a hybrid with no delrin insulation and the Herakles atomizer, like most atties that take coil heads, does not have a centre pin that protrudes enough and is not adjustable. I speak from personal experience.

Let me ask this. I've been vaping for 3 years. I've owned at least 50 different mods, most with separate batts. I know how most stuff works. I've dropped a few springs in my time, too.

I have no idea how a smpl "clone" / hybrid mod works, but from the explanation above, it doesn't even seem "close" to what most people, even on this forum, know by rote (easily).

So exactly "how much" does one have to "study up" to use a mod like this? Do I have to start measuring center pins and such to figure out if they will work on the battery? Do I have to inspect mods for delrin insulation, etc.???

quite frankly, I think if a vaper of 3 years doesn't know these things (and Im sure you can ask 100 other people on this forum who started vaping when I did and they'd be saying "wha-a-a-a-a-a?" too) then there is a problem.

Sorry, but somebody shouldn't have to be an electronics expert to use a PV......after 3 years I know quite a bit, but I would be on a new study project to figure this one out.

 

[Papillon61]

Let me ask this. I've been vaping for 3 years. I've owned at least 50 different mods, most with separate batts. I know how most stuff works. I've dropped a few springs in my time, too.

I have no idea how a smpl "clone" / hybrid mod works, but from the explanation above, it doesn't even seem "close" to what most people, even on this forum, know by rote (easily).

So exactly "how much" does one have to "study up" to use a mod like this? Do I have to start measuring center pins and such to figure out if they will work on the battery? Do I have to inspect mods for delrin insulation, etc.???

quite frankly, I think if a vaper of 3 years doesn't know these things (and Im sure you can ask 100 other people on this forum who started vaping when I did and they'd be saying "wha-a-a-a-a-a?" too) then there is a problem.

Sorry, but somebody shouldn't have to be an electronics expert to use a PV......after 3 years I know quite a bit, but I would be on a new study project to figure this one out.

I totally agree. As I wrote on another thread I'm pretty sure 95% of the population is unaware of the dangers posed by batteries. Someone on another thread remarked you don't go hang gliding or parachuting without proper instruction, research and training. But is it fair to compare hang gliding and parachuting with vaping? Most people who come to vaping do so from years of smoking where all that is involved is striking a match or flicking a lighter, folding the flame to a paper tube filled with tobacco and off you go. It is easy for them to assume that vaping is equally simple and straightforward - and most of them do. particularly since batteries of all kinds are such a big part of ordinary lives. I am concerned about people's safety. I am also concerned that incidents such as this could give an even bigger bad rep to vaping in general. I feel that if we are going to be vocal about our right to vape we should be equally vocal about some of the dangers involved. Are we doing anything about it?

 

[Andromendous]

If anyone should be blamed for this it should be the incompetent shop owner who sold the device, not educating the customer nor knowing his own products. He should be put out of business

 

[Mad Scientist]

For all these "hybrid top cap" mech mods, is a safe floating pin 510 top cap really that much trouble to manufacture? Let's see, mod or potential pipe bomb, which do I prefer? I'll go with the one that has a lesser chance of exploding, thanks lol.

 

[Kent C]

For those not totally familiar with hybrids:

 

[Stubby]

I totally agree. As I wrote on another thread I'm pretty sure 95% of the population is unaware of the dangers posed by batteries. Someone on another thread remarked you don't go hang gliding or parachuting without proper instruction, research and training. But is it fair to compare hang gliding and parachuting with vaping? Most people who come to vaping do so from years of smoking where all that is involved is striking a match or flicking a lighter, folding the flame to a paper tube filled with tobacco and off you go. It is easy for them to assume that vaping is equally simple and straightforward - and most of them do. particularly since batteries of all kinds are such a big part of ordinary lives. I am concerned about people's safety. I am also concerned that incidents such as this could give an even bigger bad rep to vaping in general. I feel that if we are going to be vocal about our right to vape we should be equally vocal about some of the dangers involved. Are we doing anything about it?

Bingo

If anyone should be blamed for this it should be the incompetent shop owner who sold the device, not educating the customer nor knowing his own products. He should be put out of business

You are trying to lay all of the blame on one shop owner while ignoring the blatant disregard for safety of much of the industry. There is a long chain of command that lead up to this one shop owner selling a device that is very easy to misuse (much to easy for a consumer product). Because of the inherent danger in all types of mechs I wouldn't even consider them consumer products, but products that take special training and care well beyond anything in the consumer market, and well beyond the average consumer.

If you want to lay blame, do it on the industry that is pushing products that by design have a high risk factor and can be all to easily misused, and selling them as common consumer goods. This includes many, if not most vape shops.

 

[AndriaD]

Because of the inherent danger in all types of mechs I wouldn't even consider them consumer products, but products that take special training and care well beyond anything in the consumer market, and well beyond the average consumer.

I would agree with that, and I didn't even get a mech for quite a few months after I started vaping, while in the meantime reading about and discussing battery safety with anyone around here who'd hold still long enough. But, I'm one of those people who READS THE MANUAL. Most people are like "Read the instructions? WHY?" as if reading is a fate worse than death or something. THAT is the "idiot factor" -- people who won't ever read instructions. You can provide a hundred-page manual with pictures and arrows and diagrams, and they STILL won't read it.

However I haven't seen any hundred-page manuals with pictures and arrows and diagrams for anything related to vaping, so those of us who ARE inclined to RTFM are forced to seek info here, with the gurus; lots of people still think the internet is the antichrist and won't even logon, nevermind ask a question.

I think the onus goes both ways -- the industry SHOULD provide those manuals, or at least some plain-english (not "manglish") instruction sheets; but getting people to read them? Horse of another color entirely.

Andria

 

[Papillon61]

If anyone should be blamed for this it should be the incompetent shop owner who sold the device, not educating the customer nor knowing his own products. He should be put out of business

What if he got it online from some site in China or Hong Kong or wherever? Shouldn't we as vapers with slightly more experience take it on ourselves to educate beginners? It would be in the interest of all.

 

[AndriaD]

What if he got it online from some site in China or Hong Kong or wherever? Shouldn't we as vapers with slightly more experience take it on ourselves to educate beginners? It would be in the interest of all.

Of course... but as noted in my post, many many people are "afraid" of the internet; they not only won't go online, but would never dream of actually signing up for an acct and making a post to ask a question.

Andria

 

[bobwho77]

Just read the disgusting update to the story. I'm sure this will help influence their final rule.

UPDATE 8/4: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell released a statement:

“This is unacceptable. Consumers have a right to know the products they buy are safe and not ticking time bombs that could explode dangerously at any point. We are exploring both regulatory and legislative solutions to this problem to ensure Sgt. Diekman and other consumers have the protections they deserve. I encourage anyone who has experienced an adverse event while using an e-cigarette to submit the problem to the FDA’s Safety Reporting Portal. The FDA will use this information to help protect consumers from defective products and ensure proper oversight to protect public health.”

For more information, see the FDA Safety Portal:

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

I live in her district, and I know where her office is. I'll stop by there in person, and give her and/or her staff an educational demonstration about vaping, as well as introducing them to THIS voter/vaper.
SENSIBLE regulations for consumer protection (safe batteries, material and design quality...) would be nice, but not the kind of thing that the FDA is proposing. I realize that we're talking about the government, but I can still hope...

 

[Stubby]

What if he got it online from some site in China or Hong Kong or wherever? Shouldn't we as vapers with slightly more experience take it on ourselves to educate beginners? It would be in the interest of all.

Of course... but as noted in my post, many many people are "afraid" of the internet; they not only won't go online, but would never dream of actually signing up for an acct and making a post to ask a question.

Andria

I can't see how even a conscientious vape shop could take the hours it would take to educate an individual so they could be reasonably safe with a mech. There are just to many ways to go wrong. Then we have cloud contest that don't even allow a regulated deice, and consumers waxing about how great there mechs are. You are all responsible when something goes wrong, and there is no doubt things will continue to go wrong.

It appears mechs are on a decline. If you really want to do something positive why don't you try and speed up this decline. The best education you can give people is to tell them to stay away from mechs.

 

[bobwho77]

Cars... Motorcycles,... Mods...
There are many things that you can walk in to the store/dealership and buy, before you realize that you've got WAY more than you can handle.