CALIFORNIA VAPERS: Things are getting ugly...

[zoiDman]

And of course, we'll allow flavors in those, because they're not intended for children.

But we WILL allow them to be sold out in the open, and to children...
Smoking Cessation Treatment for Adolescents

From the Study you posted...

"NRTs such as nicotine patches, gum, and lozenges are available over the counter (OTC) in the United States. Sale of these OTC products is restricted to persons at least 18 years of age. The packages for Nicorette gum (GlaxoSmith-Kline, Raleigh, NC), Commit lozenges (Glaxo-SmithKline, Raleigh, NC), and NicoDerm CQ (GlaxoSmithKline, Raleigh, NC) specifically state, “Not for sale to those under age 18 years of age. If you are under 18, ask a doctor before use.”35 Therefore, while the OTC purchase of NRT is not permitted by adolescents, adolescents may obtain the products under the supervision of a physician via a prescription. Other forms of NRT such as the nicotine inhaler (Nicotrol Inhaler, Pfizer, New York, NY) and nicotine nasal spray (Nicotrol NS, Pfizer, New York, NY) are only available with a prescription. Labeling for the nicotine nasal spray does not recommend use in patients younger than 18 years because it has not been evaluated for this population.36 However, inherent in the Nicotrol Inhaler labeling is the recognition that while none of the NRT products have been evaluated for those younger than 18 years, there does not seem to be medical risk for nicotine-dependent adolescents who use them. The labeling states that if potential benefit outweighs risk, the inhaler may be used in older adolescents for tobacco dependence.37"

 

[DC2]

From the Study you posted...

I think you may have missed the part of my post where I quoted from the same study.
And everyone was recommending that we change that so that adolescents could get some too.

 

[zoiDman]

I think you may have missed the part of my post where I quoted from the same study.
And everyone was recommending that we change that so that adolescents could get some too.

I guess I did. I thought you were saying that NRT's will be sold to Children.

I personally see NRT's to be a Side Issue to vapers in regards to these pending pieces of Legislations. Because e-Cigarettes/e-liquids can't go down that Road.

 

[Katya]

here's the catch 22. as soon as you re-purpose those devices for other
things for e-juice they are covered under the act.
regards
mike

(2) “Tobacco product” does not include a product that has been approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration for sale as a tobacco cessation product or for other therapeutic purposes where the product is marketed and sold solely for such an approved purpose.

I understand that. But what happens when/if CA legalizes the "other product" for recreational use, not just therapeutical? Which, BTW, is a possibility.

 

[zoiDman]

I understand that. But what happens when/if CA legalizes the "other product" for recreational use, not just therapeutical? Which, BTW, is a possibility.

I must be Missing it.

But what Difference would it make if they Did?

 

[Katya]

I must be Missing it.

But what Difference would it make if they Did?

Wouldn't they have to allow all kinds of vaporizers to be sold without any restrictions whatsoever--other than age verification?

 

[zoiDman]

Wouldn't they have to allow all kinds of vaporizers to be sold without any restrictions whatsoever--other than age verification?

Yeah... That's the way I see it.

Like I said, I don't see a Problem here?

My Only Problem is saying that the Age to be Verified needs to be 21. Which I appose. I think it should be 18.

 

[Katya]

Yeah... That's the way I see it.

Like I said, I don't see a Problem here?

My Only Problem is saying that the Age to be Verified needs to be 21. Which I appose. I think it should be 18.

I agree. But, like Stefan said, we have to carefully pick our battles... If those heartless jerks could coldly ignore an American veteran's impassioned pleas and his argument that war is much more hazardous to your health than smoking or vaping (even though that generated some discussion among committee members), we, plain sinners and drug addicts, don't have a chance.

That said, I still believe that those laws are very vulnerable to court challenge. I don't see how any device (tank, battery) that is used with products that do not contain any tobacco or its derivatives whatsoever (0 nicotine eliquids or other legal substances) can be controlled by tobacco legislation.

 

[zoiDman]

...

That said, I still believe that those laws are very vulnerable to court challenge. I don't see how any device (tank, battery) that is used with products that do not contain any tobacco or its derivatives whatsoever (0 nicotine eliquids or other legal substances) can be controlled by tobacco legislation.

Exactly. And I thought Greg did a Good Job of pointing out that even the FDA is Not and Can Not regulated products that do Not Contain or are Not Sold with Nicotine.

Regulating 0mg e-Liquids is a "Tobacco Product" is Asinine. Or calling anything that can Produce a Vapor. And it has Legal Litigation written all over it.

A State following a Federal Legal Definition of what a Tobacco Product is (or Isn't) is one thing. Making Up your Own Definition is quite Another.

I would Hope that California has Enough Sense (and Lawyers) to Amend out some of what they want to Define as a Tobacco Product. And these are Points that People should be Writing their Reps and Pointing Out.

 

[Katya]

I would Hope that California has Enough Sense (and Lawyers) to Amend out some of what they want to Define as a Tobacco Product. And these are Points that People should be Writing their Reps and Pointing Out.

Sense? Nope.

Lawyers? Yup!

 

[zoiDman]

Sense? Nope.

Lawyers? Yup!

It's just going to be a Tough Sell to a Federal Judge say'n that a Mixture of VG, PG, and some Food Flavorings is a "Tobacco Product".

Even if your Argument is Based on it is supposed to somehow "Save the Children".

 

[Katya]

It's just going to be a Tough Sell to a Federal Judge say'n that a Mixture of VG, PG, and some Food Flavorings is a "Tobacco Product".

Even if your Argument is Based on it is supposed to somehow "Save the Children".

Unless, of course, the FDA approves the grandfather date of 2007 and bans everything...

This is such a bloody mess.

Why don't they just leave us alone?

Don't answer that.

*sigh*

 

[stevegmu]

It would go to the 9Th Circuit Court, which is just nutty. I don't see how they wouldn't agree PG and VG are tobacco products...

 

[Katya]

It would go to the 9Th Circuit Court, which is just nutty. I don't see how they wouldn't agree PG and VG are tobacco products...

I don't either--but this is California, after all.

San Francisco banned toys in McDonald's happy meals...

 

[zoiDman]

Unless, of course, the FDA approves the grandfather date of 2007 and bans everything...

This is such a bloody mess.

Why don't they just leave us alone?

Don't answer that.

*sigh*

It is a Mess. And somewhere along the Lines what is getting Lost is that e-Cigarettes Helps people Quit Smoking. Period. And this is what Every Health Organization on the Planet says is the Single Greatest things that we could do to Improve Public Health.

Sometimes I wonder if All this would have been Better if we had just Given them their Damn Taxes from the Git-Go.

 

[zoiDman]

...

San Francisco banned toys in McDonald's happy meals...

Slantz at UCSF did a Study that Happy Meal Toys is a gateway to Video Games. And Video Games causes Shootings.

So Happy Meal Toys had to be Banned.

 

[Katya]

Sometimes I wonder if All this would have been Better if we had just Given them their Damn Taxes from the Git-Go.

May I remind you that from the get-go they tried to ban e-cigarettes altogether?

They will get their taxes; the question is how much they'll get and which products they'll be allowed, by law, to tax. I have no problem paying regular CA sales tax--I already do when I buy locally. But sin tax? Same as regular cigs? Nope.

 

[Katya]

Slantz at UCSF did a Study that Happy Meal Toys is a gateway to Video Games. And Video Games causes Shootings.

So Happy Meal Toys had to be Banned.

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding...

 

[zoiDman]

May I remind you that from the get-go they tried to ban e-cigarettes altogether?

They will get their taxes; the question is how much they'll get and which products they'll be allowed, by law, to tax. I have no problem paying regular CA sales tax--I already do when I buy locally. But sin tax? Same as regular cigs? Nope.

I was there. I saw what they Tired to do.

Maybe I'm just getting Discouraged by all that has been Going on lately. But everyone seems to Agree that all this is About Money. The missing MSA Money. The Missing Tobacco Tax Monies. Heck, even the Missing Sales Tax Money.

I just wonder sometimes if they had those Monies, how many People in Government would Really Care if a person used an e-Cigarette or Not? I mean, if they get the Same if you Smoke or if you Vape, what would be the Difference to them?

And few Argue that e-Cigarettes are not Safer than Cigarettes.

I'm not saying I'm for Taxes. I'm just Tired of having to Fight over All this. When all they Really Want is the Money. And the Health side of all this is taking a Back Seat to Taxes and State Revues.

 

[zoiDman]

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding...