Diketones will destroy vaping before they destroys your lungs

[Mazinny]

The Same Linc Williams who started the Famous "We Are Vapers" project?

I am not familiar with the project, but the odds of two Linc Williams' in this industry would be slim !

 

[Lessifer]

I agree.

Out of the 229,010 members on the ECF, I can only think of a Couple of people who do so on a Regular and Habitual level.

Am I one of them? I don't remember ever calling or implying that someone is an ANTZ. I do know that I have said that someone's argument sounds like an ANTZ argument.

ETA: looking at the post that I believe is in question, he didn't call anyone an ANTZ either. He called certain arguments, "we just don't know" and "need long term data" that are used as excuses for mandates, ANTZ arguments.

 

[Jman8]

You keep hitting everyone with the ANTZ rhetoric thing over and over again. But it's really gotten me thinking about how we discuss this issue. Okay, the Anti Smoking Zealots are running around telling anyone who will listen that vaping is bad and needs to be stopped. If there are enough of them for you to be saying that constantly then the next question would be who are they talking to? I would assume policy makers and anyone else high up on the food chain. So that would mean that diketones are a weapon being used against vaping. Then the question is do we need diketones badly enough to make ourselves an easy target?

Same can be said with nicotine, as I stated earlier in the thread. It clearly makes us an easy target and we have no long term data on vaping nicotine. As there are lots and lots of vapers who vape 0 nic, then it is clearly not necessary for any/all vapers.

So, to answer your question in way I would - yes, we need the options on the free market for those that desire that in their vape. It has clearly played a key role in making this a billion dollar industry.

Even if vaping were 100% safe, 100% used responsibly and accepted by 90% of all non-vapers, there would still be anti-vapers (or ANTZ) finding issues and poking at vaping as something that is dangerous and ought to be avoided.

To say to ANTZ (or whomever) we will give in on this issue, in hopes of appeasement is political foolishness.

Especially when the issue is not even close to known harm and there are currently zero incidents of reported cases with a disease that historically takes 18 months, or less, to become symptomatic.

 

[Pinggolfer]

I guess I'll never know what chemicals are in zoi's liquids he vapes. Top secret I imagine. I have to believe he doesn't know and if he does he hasn't researched them.

 

[Jman8]

Playing the ANTZ card is just a Way of trying to tie someone with an Opposing view to a Group that we can All Hate. So as to Discredit the Opposing View as being part of "Them".

Kinda like what a Politian does when they Sling Mud at an Opponent and try to make them Look Bad. Instead of Telling us what they Will do and why we should perceive them as Good.

BTW - I'm sure I will be Called an ANTZ for Saying this.

LOL

Nope, not an ANTZ statement.

I play the ANTZ card when I read ANTZ rhetoric. It really is that simple. I do not play it lightly or willy nilly. Feel free to dig up any post where I've said the word ANTZ (including this one) and to see if you can catch me using it in a way where you strongly believe it was not warranted. I would enjoy that exercise.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I know @VNeil makes this point routinely, but as you've quoted it, it makes sense to bring it up again. The part in quotes is saying, a consistent finding with OB is that it is (always) symptomatic in less than a year and a half.

Yet, the anti-diketone crowd would suggest we don't have the data today that we need because it could take as long as 30 years to determine the potential of this problem. Ya know, playing the ANTZ "we just don't know" card along with the "need long term data" card. It seems to work in a quasi rational way for this ongoing debate, but is incredibly tough to reconcile with this fact that BO is consistently symptomatic in less than 18 months.

Thus, we currently live in a vaping reality where if this is plausible issue, there ought to be plenty of vapers that have BO present in their physiology based on the historical findings of BO symptoms.

That we do not, and that some would still argue for "need more long term data" suggests they don't understand this issue of which they prattle on about.

Again, the quoted part above is saying there is rapid decline in lung function with OB, unlike other chronic lung diseases where decline is slow. Please link to any of the known cases of OB in vapers, for surely we are living in a time period where the data ought to be present if we are sticking to this issue being a certain, albeit potential, problem.

THIS!

 

[zoiDman]

Am I one of them? I don't remember ever calling or implying that someone is an ANTZ. I do know that I have said that someone's argument sounds like an ANTZ argument.

ETA: looking at the post that I believe is in question, he didn't call anyone an ANTZ either. He called certain arguments, "we just don't know" and "need long term data" that are used as excuses for mandates, ANTZ arguments.

I don't consider you One of Them.

We might Not Agree on everything. A certain Poll comes to Mind. LOL. But you Do Not feel the Need to imply that just because someone Doesn't agree with you, that their POV is aligned with what an ANTZ believe.

Or that what Other people Post is "what an ANTZ would say".

 

[Lessifer]

I don't consider you One of Them.

We might Not Agree on everything. A certain Poll comes to Mind. LOL. But you Do Not feel the Need to imply that just because someone Doesn't agree with you, that their POV is aligned with what an ANTZ believe.

Or that what Other people Post is "what an ANTZ would say".

Agreed, though I will point it out if it strikes me as such. Sometimes, if they keep repeating the same nonsense.

 

[zoiDman]

I guess I'll never know what chemicals are in zoi's liquids he vapes. Top secret I imagine. I have to believe he doesn't know and if he does he hasn't researched them.

Not really Top Secrete. Or something that Hillary shouldn't be sending in a personal e-Mail.

Don't really care if you if you believe I Have or Haven't done research on the DIY Flavorings I use.

But here's the Deal. You Didn't ask me what Chemicals were in the e-Liquids I vape. So let's not get off on the wrong foot Again.

 

[Pinggolfer]

If you want to know what Chemicals are in Da/AP Free e-Liquids, shouldn't you be Contacting the Retailers/OEM of these e-Liquids an Asking them? How could I tell you what Chemicals are in Every e-Liquid that is Sold?

What you are saying is you have no idea. Tell me what chemicals are in your DA/AP free liquids. You didn't have to have an attitude with my question. For someone who doesn't want to harm their lungs it would be advisable to say what chemicals are used and the benefits if any

But here's the Deal. You Didn't ask me what Chemicals were in the e-Liquids I vape. So let's not get off on the wrong foot Again.

Wrong foot? Which foot.

 

[zoiDman]

Agreed, though I will point it out if it strikes me as such. Sometimes, if they keep repeating the same nonsense.

I hear that. Repeating the Same Old Thing again and again and again and again and again gets Old. I just kinda Tune It Out.

---

Hey BTW - Is it Hot Today in Sacramento? Yesterday was Brutal. 104 in most parts of where I was.

 

[Lessifer]

I hear that. Repeating the Same Old Thing again and again and again and again and again gets Old. I just kinda Tune It Out.

---

Hey BTW - Is it Hot Today in Sacramento? Yesterday was Brutal. 104 in most parts of where I was.

Actually, it's only 82, the break in the heat started yesterday. I believe all of the week prior to that was over 100. It's almost always over 100 here in the summer though. This summer has been worse than most simply because it's already so dry, and there hasn't been much of a breeze.

 

[Pinggolfer]

As I have said, many just don't care about their health...

Some have no control over their health.

 

[zoiDman]

Wrong foot? Which foot.

Sorry Ping. But I thought you Knew.

I have switched to Unflavored. So there are No Flavorings in my e-Liquids.

I will sometimes put a Drop or Two of a 7% DIY Fruit e-liquid into a Tank of Unflavored. Or sometimes put the same Drop or Two onto a Fresh Wick and then Fill the Tank with Unflavored.

If you Want to know what Chemicals are in the Fruit Flavored Flavorings I use, do a Search for TFA and lookup...

Cherry
Watermelon
Pineapple
Strawberry
Peach
Passion Fruit
Hawaii Punch

 

[zoiDman]

Actually, it's only 82, the break in the heat started yesterday. I believe all of the week prior to that was over 100. It's almost always over 100 here in the summer though. This summer has been worse than most simply because it's already so dry, and there hasn't been much of a breeze.

Today is Better than Yesterday also. Its a little over 90 right now.

90 feels Cool when the Day before was 104.

LOL

 

[Lessifer]

Today is Better than Yesterday also. Its a little over 90 right now.

90 feels Cool when the Day before was 104.

LOL

Yeah, yesterday started off hot as usual, but by the evening there were clouds covering the sky(REAL CLOUDS!), and it was noticeably cooler. I've spent most of my time indoors this summer, I don't do well in the heat, my electric bill can attest to that. Where I'm moving, still in Sacramento, is closer to the river and has more trees so hopefully it will be nicer temperature wise. I KNOW it's a nicer neighborhood already.

 

[Jman8]

So a PAD smoker was/is getting 5700 ug of DA daily and 860 ug of AP.

Quoting myself here cause I just had to edit this post as I was only off in my numbers by 100%. I, your resident dual user, was thinking a pack of smokes is 10 cigarettes each and did my math accordingly. But I've updated it to reflect what an actual pack is and raised the numbers accordingly. All the rest of the previous post is now even more reflective of putting this debate in perspective.

Just think what those 4 PAD smokers were intaking, for decades, and then let's have this discussion on how ultra serious this is to be inhaled, and how we'll never know until vapers manifest things 30 years from now.

On a disease that has historically manifested in 18 months or less in most cases.

 

[Pinggolfer]

Sorry Ping. But I thought you Knew.

I have switched to Unflavored. So there are No Flavorings in my e-Liquids.

I will sometimes put a Drop or Two of a 7% DIY Fruit e-liquid into a Tank. Or sometimes put the same Drop or Two onto a Fresh Wick and then Fill the Tank with Unflavored.

If you Want to know what Chemicals are in the Fruit Flavored Flavorings I use, do a Search for TFA and lookup...

Cherry
Watermelon
Pineapple
Strawberry
Peach
Passion Fruit
Hawaii Punch

Interesting unflavored, not sure if I could go that route. I assume you taste nothing when you vape? I will report I bought a 30ml bottle of Vaporsharks Premium E-Liquid which tested DA/AP free. It's called Apple Pie a La Mode and it's tastes like a La Puke.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah, yesterday started off hot as usual, but by the evening there were clouds covering the sky(REAL CLOUDS!), and it was noticeably cooler. I've spent most of my time indoors this summer, I don't do well in the heat, my electric bill can attest to that. Where I'm moving, still in Sacramento, is closer to the river and has more trees so hopefully it will be nicer temperature wise. I KNOW it's a nicer neighborhood already.

I went to the Movies yesterday. Saw "Man from Uncle". And it was so Hot Outside, that I didn't mind sitting Inside watching 30 Minutes of Previews.

BTW - One of the previews was for a movie about some Guy and his Family who gets Evicted from their house. And then the evictee goes to work for the Evil Guy who Evicted them so he can support his Family.

What makes it worth Mentioning is guess what the Evil, Ruthless, Cold Hearted ....... who evicted the Familly is seen doing Many Times during the Preview?

Spoiler: Wait for It....

Hitting on a Blu. LOL

 

[zoiDman]

Interesting unflavored, not sure if I could go that route. I assume you taste nothing when you vape? I will report I bought a 30ml bottle of Vaporsharks Premium E-Liquid which tested DA/AP free. It's called Apple Pie a La Mode and it's tastes like a La Puke.

Unflavored actually has More Taste than what you would Think. Kinda Refreshing Actually. Like Drinking a Glass of Ice Water when you are Thirsty.

And Putting a Drop or Two of Flavored e-Liquid into a Tank of Unflavored (or on a Fresh Wick) has a Remarkable amount of Flavor.