CALIFORNIA VAPERS: Things are getting ugly...

[FlamingoTutu]

California is looking for equivalency isn't it.
sooner or later they are going to have to come up with some sort
of conversion method. if for say they determine an equivalence of
24 US drops per pack,that's almost 2 ml. if however they determine
its 20 drops from a dropper calculated at 20 drops per ml,thats
1 ml per pack.
regards
mike

But 24 drops of 3mg is not the same as 24 drops of 36mg. How many drops of 0mg = one cigarette?

 

[philoshop]

The money is a huge part of the MO here, but don't overlook the fact that career politicians end up becoming power-hungry control freaks during their tenure in office. Particularly those with careers in places like CA and NY.
Their benevolence is entirely dependent on our submission to their tyranny.

Vapers are viewed as a relatively small (weak) group that can be bullied into paying more for what we enjoy. That essentially counts to them as two notches in their sword with one swing.

 

[YoursTruli]

That is Usually how it Basically Works for All Taxes.

A Legislative Body needs to Pass a Tax Law. And then it is up to some Agency to Administrate/Collect the Tax.

This is where the Confusion comes in with the Text in those New Bills. It sounds like they want a Vaper to pay the Same amount of Tax that a smoker will pay for a Pack of Cigarettes, $2.87/pack.

I just have No Clue how the conversion will be made from a Pack of Cigarette to what a Vaper Does/Uses?

And that Scares Me.

When Ohio tried to pass a similar tax bill equating cigarettes to eliquid it would have been almost $34.00 on a 30 ml bottle.

 

[skoony]

But 24 drops of 3mg is not the same as 24 drops of 36mg. How many drops of 0mg = one cigarette?

the nicotine % doesn't mater. e-juice is any liquid used
to inhale vapor.(excluding illegal substances)
there is no requirement to have nicotine. that's
why even zero nic will be taxed. they are not comparing
nicotine content. of course they could go by what the most
popular type of cigarette sold in their state is and formulate from there.
my point is they are planning to tax it and whichever way they do it,
its going to be more favorable to them than to vapers.
regards
mike

 

[stevegmu]

I always figured a carton is about equivalent to about 30ml...

 

[skoony]

when averaged out using refill recommendations from cigalike
manufacturers i calculated roughly 2.6 cartons.
regards
mike

 

[zoiDman]

California is looking for equivalency isn't it.
sooner or later they are going to have to come up with some sort
of conversion method. if for say they determine an equivalence of
24 US drops per pack,that's almost 2 ml. if however they determine
its 20 drops from a dropper calculated at 20 drops per ml,thats
1 ml per pack.
regards
mike

Yeah... But I don't think anyone would Choose drops to be their Units of Equivalency because of the Variations in Drop Volumes Lessifer and Myself mentioned.

The Taxes I have seen peg a Tax Rate to Nicotine mg per ml. Buy more mg's, pay More Taxes. Buy less mg's, pay Less Taxes. No mg's, No Taxes.

 

[Guzzard]

If it takes 10-12 puffs for a cigarette, then it's 200-240 puffs a pack. So how many ml's is that for a MTL vaper?

 

[zoiDman]

When Ohio tried to pass a similar tax bill equating cigarettes to eliquid it would have been almost $34.00 on a 30 ml bottle.

The way they did the Tax made Sense.

What was CRAZY was the Tax Rate they applied.

 

[zoiDman]

I always figured a carton is about equivalent to about 30ml...

A ml Tax would be Best for a DIY-er buying 100mg/ml. Not so go for the person buying the same ml only in 3mg/ml.

 

[skoony]

Yeah... But I don't think anyone would Choose drops to be their Units of Equivalency because of the Variations in Drop Volumes Lessifer and Myself mentioned.

The Taxes I have seen peg a Tax Rate to Nicotine mg per ml. Buy more mg's, pay More Taxes. Buy less mg's, pay Less Taxes. No mg's, No Taxes.

quite right about the drops. it could be estimated 1 or 1.4 ml per pack.
i am not aware of any tax pegged on mg of nicotine per ml.
could have been some. i am only aware of taxes per ml.
besides aren't they going to tax zero nic too? it would make
more sense taxing per ml of juice whether or not its flavored
and has nic or not. this would prevent a lot of go arounds
that our DIY friends are so fond of pointing out.
just average every thing out and come up with a flat rate
per ml.
regards
mike

 

[stevegmu]

A ml Tax would be Best for a DIY-er buying 100mg/ml. Not so go for the person buying the same ml only in 3mg/ml.

What makes you believe you will be able to purchase raw nicotine?

 

[zoiDman]

What makes you believe you will be able to purchase raw nicotine?

Because Unless California has a Another shoe to Drop, I see nothing about Limits on Nicotine mg's in any of the CA Legislation.

And the FDA has not Submitted anything to Congress yet. So the Window is Still Open.

I am Positive that the FDA will Limit mg's per ml once that Deeming is Complete. But it Aint yet. So there is still time to Fill a Freezer.

 

[stevegmu]

Because Unless California has a Another shoe to Drop, I see nothing about Limits on Nicotine mg's in any of the CA Legislation.

And the FDA has not Submitted anything to Congress yet. So the Window is Still Open.

I am Positive that the FDA will Limit mg's per ml once that Deeming is Complete. But it Aint yet. So there is still time to Fill a Freezer.

I'm sure DIY will come with the 'deeming.' Many on here seem to think the loopholes, like loose 'cigar' tobacco will be dealt with; I can't imagine bulk nic will be overlooked...

 

[zoiDman]

I'm sure DIY will come with the 'deeming.' Many on here seem to think the loopholes, like loose 'cigar' tobacco will be dealt with; I can't imagine bulk nic will be overlooked...

Doesn't seem like the FDA would Overlook it to me. Not after 5 Years of writing Regs and Reading this Forum.

Seem like it is a Matter of When. And Not If.

 

[Painter_]

I always figured a carton is about equivalent to about 30ml...

Then I vape half a carton per day.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

When Ohio tried to pass a similar tax bill equating cigarettes to eliquid it would have been almost $34.00 on a 30 ml bottle.

Outrageous.

If it takes 10-12 puffs for a cigarette, then it's 200-240 puffs a pack. So how many ml's is that for a MTL vaper?

Depends on what you're vaping it with. But I've never really believed in any formula since people's bodies/tastes vary so widely. Some vape 50mg others are happy with 0-3mg.

the nicotine % doesn't mater. e-juice is any liquid used
to inhale vapor.(excluding illegal substances)
there is no requirement to have nicotine. that's
why even zero nic will be taxed. they are not comparing
nicotine content. of course they could go by what the most
popular type of cigarette sold in their state is and formulate from there.
my point is they are planning to tax it and whichever way they do it,
its going to be more favorable to them than to vapers.
regards
mike

You guys are probably right. And the average retail clerk probably isn't on top of things enough to figure out a tax based on mg strength. They just want the tax money and will ram it through no matter who them have to mow down to do it. Let the wildlife die, we need green private golf courses.

 

[sofarsogood]

The two ingrediants for 0mg liquid are available in walk in retail everywhere. My calculation is a 2 liter bottle of 10% nic would cost me $100 and last me 8 YEARS. 2 days ago I took a couple of long time smokers on a walking tour at a museum. Not so long ago I must have been like them. I could see the burden they were carrying from smoking. It was heart breaking. I talked to the wife about my vape, showed off my rig and said go to a vape shop. She looked interested but where is public health encouraging her?

 

[Lessifer]

I'm fairly certain it would work similar to cigarettes, the average clerk and customer won't even be aware of it. It will be added into the wholesale cost to the retailer. Now... how that works for those "manufacturing" it, I'm not sure. Possibly they'll just pay the tax on the wholesale bulk nic liquid? If they do, we shouldn't have to pay a second tax.

ETA: In which case local "house brews" would become the more economical choice. That is, if shops are still allowed to manufacture house brews...

 

[philoshop]

The two ingrediants for 0mg liquid are available in walk in retail everywhere. My calculation is a 2 liter bottls of 10% nic would cost me $100 and last me 8 YEARS. 2 days ago I took a couple of long time smokers on a walking tour at a museum. Not so long ago I must have been like them. I could see the burden they were carrying from smoking. It was heart breaking. I talked to the wife about my vape, showed off my rig and said go to a vape shop. She looked interested but where is public health encouraging her?

That's the most shameful aspect of this (my bold): Tax monies from vapers will be collected and then be used to actively discourage smokers from trying it. Defies logic.