CALIFORNIA VAPERS: Things are getting ugly...

[Katya]

Can we still have those? How 'bout toothpicks?

 

[zoiDman]

Can we still have those? How 'bout toothpicks?

Only if you are 21.

And not where Smoking is Prohibited.

 

[Katya]

OK, so if I understand this correctly:

1) You're "smoking" when you're smoking and you're also smoking when you're trying to "circumvent smoking"--i.e., not smoking. Makes no difference, right?

2) Anything can be classified as "tobacco product," whether or not it contains tobacco or even nicotine. Like PG, VG, etc. Right? Right.

Got it.

 

[zoiDman]

OK, so if I understand this correctly:

1) You're "smoking" when you're smoking and you're also smoking when you're trying to "circumvent smoking"--i.e., not smoking. Makes no difference, right?

2) Anything can be classified as "tobacco product," whether or not it contains tobacco or even nicotine. Like PG, VG, etc. Right? Right.

Got it.

That's about the Long and Short of it.

Except you Forgot that you will be Taxed, at an Unknown Equivalency Method, when you do Either of the above. Or Both.

 

[Katya]

That's about the Long and Short of it.

Except you Forgot that you will be Taxed, at an Unknown Equivalency Method, when you do Either of the above. Or Both.

Right. Got that, too.

Are they serious?

Don't answer that.

 

[navigator2011]

OK, so if I understand this correctly:

1) You're "smoking" when you're smoking and you're also smoking when you're trying to "circumvent smoking"--i.e., not smoking. Makes no difference, right?

2) Anything can be classified as "tobacco product," whether or not it contains tobacco or even nicotine. Like PG, VG, etc. Right? Right.

Got it.

Um, I think then my Prius is also a tobacco product . . . because I smoked in it before, and I vape in it now.

 

[BigGOOSE]

Might as well use your Vg as a lubricant looks like it's going in no matter what. Was good to be a virgin for atleast as long as it was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Smoking

Not smoking

But what about Halloween?

 

[Lessifer]

Before you go thinking you are Losing it, I do believe that one of these Bills contained language along those lines.

But I thought that was pertaining to the Definition of what and "e-Cigarette" is.

But then Again, It could be Me who is Losing there Mind.

BTW - When a Bill gets Amended, Either to Add, Remove or to Change something, the Text is Highlighted in...

Blue for Text that was Added.
Red/Strikeout for Text that was Added.

And you can Always use the "Compare Versions" on the Bills Page.

Compare Versions

Well sbx2-5 and abx2-6 are the ones that do the defining, that's why I was confused. And I knew about the highlighting but wasn't sure if it tracked all changes or just changes from the original, or from the previous, and again I don't see that text that I really do remember seeing...

It is far from clear.

First, from Zoidman's post:

(c) “Smoking” means inhaling, exhaling, burning, or carrying any lighted or heated cigar, cigarette, or pipe, or any other lighted or heated tobacco or plant product intended for inhalation, whether natural or synthetic, in any manner or in any form. “Smoking” includes the use of an electronic smoking device that creates an aerosol or vapor, in any manner or in any form, or the use of any oral smoking device for the purpose of circumventing the prohibition of smoking.

...which seems to indicate any vapor, whether it contains nicotine or not. But, I find the last piece of this interesting: "for the purpose of circumventing the prohibition of smoking." I don't vape to circumvent smoking prohibitions, I do so not to smoke, but I digress.

The next section:

(d) (1) “Tobacco product” means any of the following:
(A) A product containing, made, or derived from tobacco or nicotine that is intended for human consumption, whether smoked, heated, chewed, absorbed, dissolved, inhaled, snorted, sniffed, or ingested by any other means, including, but not limited to, cigarettes, cigars, little cigars, chewing tobacco, pipe tobacco, or snuff.
(B) An electronic device that delivers nicotine or other vaporized liquids to the person inhaling from the device, including, but not limited to, an electronic cigarette, cigar, pipe, or hookah.

Clearly, nicotine is mentioned, but then the "or other vaporized liquids", which would technical include non-nicotine. I would think this may intend to include those "other" vapor products (you know what I mean), but that seems to be specifically excluded at the end of the Digest.

Basically, blind zealousness is getting in the way of well-written and clear law.

The second bit is about the hardware, so yeah, idk, I'm gonna go vape for a bit and stop thinking about this for now. I've got a headache.

 

[nicnik]

I'm gonna go vape for a bit and stop thinking about this for now. I've got a headache.

The headache is no accident. It was carefully orchestrated and funded by tobacco tax and MSA money.

 

[zoiDman]

... and again I don't see that text that I really do remember seeing...

...

I remember seeing something to the effect of "even it does not contain nicotine".

But like I said, I thought that had to do with either Hardware or using Hardware.

I really Haven't seen much regarding e-Liquids. Or even the word "e-Liquid".

 

[FlamingoTutu]

I remember seeing something to the effect of "even it does not contain nicotine".

But like I said, I thought that had to do with either Hardware or using Hardware.

I really Haven't seen much regarding e-Liquids. Or even the word "e-Liquid".

Thought I did also. Or was it just during the bill's discussion?

Read the PDF and my head hurts. There's this in there:

4. Tobacco products taxation. This bill creates a “tobacco product” definition within the STAKE Act and Licensing Act, which includes electronic delivery devices and component parts. This bill does not amend the “tobacco products” definition within the CTPTL. Accordingly, this bill does not impose the cigarette and tobacco products tax upon a tobacco product as defined pursuant to this bill’s BPC Section 22950.5 (electronic delivery devices and component parts). The cigarette and tobacco products tax continues to apply to “tobacco products” as defined in RTC Sections 30121 and 30131.1, which reads:

“Tobacco products” includes, but is not limited to, all forms of cigars, smoking tobacco, chewing tobacco, snuff, and any other articles or products made of, or containing at least 50 percent, tobacco, but does not include cigarettes.

Comments section near the bottom of page 5. My bold. I'm sure I was going to say something profound about it, and the whole PDF, but probably won't remember until after a few stiff drink. Bottom line is, I don't think any of them know what they are talking about. They're trying to make laws about something they don't understand at all and don't want to learn about.

 

[Lessifer]

Thought I did also. Or was it just during the bill's discussion?

Read the PDF and my head hurts. There's this in there:

4. Tobacco products taxation. This bill creates a “tobacco product” definition within the STAKE Act and Licensing Act, which includes electronic delivery devices and component parts. This bill does not amend the “tobacco products” definition within the CTPTL. Accordingly, this bill does not impose the cigarette and tobacco products tax upon a tobacco product as defined pursuant to this bill’s BPC Section 22950.5 (electronic delivery devices and component parts). The cigarette and tobacco products tax continues to apply to “tobacco products” as defined in RTC Sections 30121 and 30131.1, which reads:

“Tobacco products” includes, but is not limited to, all forms of cigars, smoking tobacco, chewing tobacco, snuff, and any other articles or products made of, or containing at least 50 percent, tobacco, but does not include cigarettes.

Comments section near the bottom of page 5. My bold. I'm sure I was going to say something profound about it, and the whole PDF, but probably won't remember until after a few stiff drink. Bottom line is, I don't think any of them know what they are talking about. They're trying to make laws about something they don't understand at all and don't want to learn about.

Plausible deniability.

"I didn't know I was consigning millions of future Californians to smoking related illnesses. The CDC told me that e-cigarettes were one of the greatest threats to public health in the new millennium."

Of course what they really mean is, greatest threat to the "public health" industry.

 

[skoony]

wait for me Lessifer. if your going crazy, i'm coming with you.

“Smoking” includes the use of an electronic smoking device that creates an aerosol or vapor, in any manner or in any form, or the use of any oral smoking device for the purpose of circumventing the prohibition of smoking.

we don't use electronic smoking devices that create aerosol or vapor. we use electronic vaperizers that
create aerosol or vapor. it is not smoking. we are not circumventing smoking. we have quit smoking.
what about dual users,are they exempted as they still smoke? one can not circumvent a activity
that isn't prohibited. there is no prohibition of smoking. its restricted in certain areas.
then there's this.

4. Tobacco products taxation. This bill creates a “tobacco product” definition within the STAKE Act and Licensing Act, which includes electronic delivery devices and component parts. This bill does not amend the “tobacco products” definition within the CTPTL. Accordingly, this bill does not impose the cigarette and tobacco products tax upon a tobacco product as defined pursuant to this bill’s BPC Section 22950.5 (electronic delivery devices and component parts). The cigarette and tobacco products tax continues to apply to “tobacco products” as defined in RTC Sections 30121 and 30131.1, which reads:

“Tobacco products” includes, but is not limited to, all forms of cigars, smoking tobacco, chewing tobacco, snuff, and any other articles or products made of, or containing at least 50 percent, tobacco, but does not include cigarettes.

move over Lessifer, i'm driving.

mike

 

[Katya]

The next section:

(d) (1) “Tobacco product” means any of the following:

(B) An electronic device that delivers nicotine or other vaporized liquids to the person inhaling from the device, including, but not limited to, an electronic cigarette, cigar, pipe, or hookah.

4. Tobacco products taxation. This bill creates a “tobacco product” definition within the STAKE Act and Licensing Act, which includes electronic delivery devices and component parts. This bill does not amend the “tobacco products” definition within the CTPTL. Accordingly, this bill does not impose the cigarette and tobacco products tax upon a tobacco product as defined pursuant to this bill’s BPC Section 22950.5 (electronic delivery devices and component parts). The cigarette and tobacco products tax continues to apply to “tobacco products” as defined in RTC Sections 30121 and 30131.1, which reads:

"Tobacco products” includes, but is not limited to, all forms of cigars, smoking tobacco, chewing tobacco, snuff, and any other articles or products made of, or containing at least 50 percent, tobacco, but does not include cigarettes.

Please, somebody, explain this to me, please? Is this a good thing?

How many definitions of a tobacco product do we have now? One definition includes cigarettes, the other one doesn't?

 

[Lessifer]

Please, somebody, explain this to me, please? Is this a good thing?

How many definitions of a tobacco product do we have now? One definition includes cigarettes, the other one doesn't?

All that is saying is that sb5/ab6 doesn't change the definition for CA tax purposes. That's what Sb13/ab16 are for...

 

[Lessifer]

Cigarette and Tobacco Products Tax Law

ETA: I believe changing the tax law requires more votes.

 

[mudmanc4]

Truth be told, the 'you can't do it because I said so' / but 'I can do what I want cause I said so' crowd is taken over.

Reality is, they might as well just saw California off, and let it float out there. The tripe that spawns out of that place is yes, that far out there to the rest of us.

 

[Katya]

All that is saying is that sb5/ab6 doesn't change the definition for CA tax purposes. That's what Sb13/ab16 are for...

So propylene glycol, glycerin and food flavorings will be taxed like cigarettes?

 

[oplholik]

I don't see how they can tax pg/vg like cigs, unless it comes from an ecig vendor. People that make soap and other uses are gonna pay the tax?