Nicoticket Testing Results

[zoiDman]

Okay guys, take this off this thread please....

Fine with me.

I just don't like it when someone Makes Accusations and then can Not Backup what they say.

Especially when this Isn't the First Time.

 

[Lacit1707]

Just want to give Kudos to Kent and his team at Nicoticket! Thank you for helping me find a way to stay off the chemical sticks that I was going to be buried with. I was at a point in my vaping journey where I was getting extremely frustrated with the e-juices out there and then found Nicoticket! So thank you and also a huge thank you for being transparent with the choices you make as a company and with your juices.

You are truly vaping community oriented.

thats a whole lot of ridiculous drivel i had to read lol the logic is astounding...

There are no " safe levels " set for DA and AP. NIOSH has recommended safe levels for factory settings, but OSHA ( the regulatory body ) has not issued a directive as of yet. Dr. F has extrapolated the NIOSH levels for e-liquid, but neither NIOSH nor those who are not convinced of the potential risk of diketones agree that this type of extrapolation is suitable for e-liquids ( for seemingly opposite reasons ). ECTA ( a Canadian trade group has set a safe level ( for their 50 Canadian member vendors ), but that's just a number their member vendors voluntarily decided on.

" nd " and " j" have nothing to do with " safe levels ", they are related to the limits of detection of the lab testing methods.

this at least answers some questions... i know not "safe" but recommended limits at least... im not worried about not detectable or very low limits and i did find the ECTA recommended limits and will run with those, so thanks...

 

[beachroadbum]

Since when did vape police start trolling nicoticket? We are happy people here and I feel some folks are trying to scare me so I buy a certain unflavored product. Stop scaring me and take this off nicotickets peaceful forum. Thanks all God bless you Clark and thanks for helping me quit cigs. Oh I will be ordering from nicoticket tomorrow. Can't wait to try eclipse !! Mmmm oh and strike is one of the best net I have ever tasted. Folks are missing out.

 

[Katia]

I do appreciate everyone's dialogue regarding the testing levels... but please, let's keep this thread centered on Nicoticket's results and not those of other vendors. Please be respectful of others opinions and try not to take anything that is said too personally. At the end of the day, YOU, the consumer, will make your own decisions for your health and well-being.

 

[Lacit1707]

Since when did vape police start trolling nicoticket? We are happy people here and I feel some folks are trying to scare me so I buy a certain unflavored product. Stop scaring me and take this off nicotickets peaceful forum. Thanks all God bless you Clark and thanks for helping me quit cigs. Oh I will be ordering from nicoticket tomorrow. Can't wait to try eclipse !! Mmmm oh and strike is one of the best net I have ever tasted. Folks are missing out.

lol, we are discssing testing limits of Nicoticket liquids... hence the title of this thread...

 

[Kent Brooks]

There is more diacetyl in cigarette smoke than AP. I cited the AP numbers because there is a negligible amount of diacetyl in your ( and most manufacturers ) liquid these days. Combining the AP and DA numbers is fair enough and you are correct that it would be more relevant, since all scientists have estimated their potential harm to be identical.

The source for my numbers ( 285 of diacetyl and 43 of AP per cigarette ) was the Farsalinos study. So the total amount of diketones in 20 cigarettes would be 6560, which would be the equivalent of 6.5 ml of Frenilla. So you can see that the amount of diketones in cigarettes is not 100 times more than the most " offensive " e liquid in this regard.

There are some studies though ( Dr. Hubbs presentation to the FDA ) :


and the following toxicology report that suggest the fine particles in eliquid aerosol penetrated deeper into the lung than cigarette smoke ) :

DA_PD_monograph.pdf - Google Drive

This is interesting. I agree that DAP is an avoidable risk - although I disagree with the NIOSH limits. There is still not a single case of BO in the vaping population, and even if there was - there are plenty of alternatives (even within our product line) that meet or exceed the NIOSH levels. The point here is, our policy is transparency. Consumers know the risk of cigarettes - but they still smoke. Many (if not most) vapers know that DAP is purported to be a health risk (even i the absence of any definitive research) - and - they have the option to avoid it if they want.

In our FAQ and terms and conditions of use, we set forth some guidelines that can minimize risk. I'd encourage everyone to read them.

Terms & Conditions of Use | Nicoticket

 

[Kent Brooks]

While on the subject of testing, where can I find the lab results for Passioncake and The Cure 2.0?

We have results, but we wanted to wait for the most recent revision which is in progress - that contains results for ALL the liquid including some oddities like Mercury, etc.

 

[I'mnotZak]

We have results, but we wanted to wait for the most recent revision which is in progress - that contains results for ALL the liquid including some oddities like Mercury, etc.

Thank you Kent. I look forward to seeing the most recent results. I also appreciate the transparency regarding test results for all of your liquids.

In our FAQ and terms and conditions of use, we set forth some guidelines that can minimize risk. I'd encourage everyone to read them.

This one caught my attention. Can you explain the basis of this being included in your T&C's for use?
"Inhaling more than 30 puffs in a single day may have negative side effects on your health."

 

[Kent Brooks]

When can we expect v2s of some liquids? I realize we really don't know much of anything in regards to vaping flavors,.diketones, etc, and are dealing with hypothetical suppositions. I also know I seem to love the flavors some consider to have the most potential risk

I will certainly try all the v2s in my flavor profile because I want to support NT. I also wouldn't mind reducing possible risk. NT is really what made my transition to vaping from smoking complete. Please keep us updated, and please continue providing test results.

v2 versions of some of the flavors are a work in progress. The problem is that the commercially available alternatives that reduce DAP levels below NIOSH levels taste like ****. What we are doing is compounding our own flavoring - specifically, vanilla, tobacco, and coffee (because they are the three worst offenders when it comes to DAP). As soon as we can put a product together that tastes good AND reduces the DAP profile, you'll be the first to know. The real problem is that WE LIKE THE TASTE of DAP. There is no viable alternative on the market place that tastes comparable. Our solution is transparency. We've been comparing and contrasting our offerings with other vendors - universally, the liquids that test out with DAP levels low enough to be considered NIOSH compliant fall into two groups... FRUIT, and ****.

 

[Jman8]

Bronchiolitis obliterans is a real risk (noticed I had to copy and paste from wikipedia.

My apologies for weighing in when I'm not a NT customer (though I might be someday!).

From the Wikipedia page is link to the NIOSH document where the risk is presented with data regarding symptoms and onset. Some of the participants in this thread will note I've been saying 18 months for symptoms to show up, which was presented as 'factual data' in another thread. From the NIOSH doc, it reads:

One of these former workers and an- other worker later identified at the same plant had lung biopsy findings consistent with bronchiolitis obliterans [Akpinar-Elci et al. 2002]. The cases occurred sporadically over several years. Four had worked as mixers of a heated soybean oil, salt, and butter flavoring mixture; the butter flavoring was poured by hand from open buckets into open mixing tanks (see Fig- ure 1). The other four had packaged microwave popcorn near the room where the oil and flavorings were mixed. Five had never smoked or smoked very little. Initial symptoms included cough, shortness of breath on exertion, and wheeze. Most had gradual onset of symptoms between 5 months and 5 years after starting work at the plant. Spirometry testing revealed severe air- ways obstruction in six workers. All eight had normal chest X-rays; four of six tested had normal DLCOs. Medical treatment with corticosteroid medication was not ef- fective. Most had severe disease by the time they were referred to lung specialists and four were placed on lung transplant lists.

I highlight the part in red because well, IMO, that is where reasonable concern is found.

Do we live in a world where people have been vaping (diketones) for 5 months, and/or up to 5 years? I would say yes on both counts. Me, I'm approaching my fifth year.

This is saying most cases, and not one or two out of the 8 or so that were diagnosed with B.O.

So, if we get to say 10 year mark in vaping community and most vapers do not have diagnosis of B.O. nor have issues of shortness of breath, then it is MOST reasonable to assume that vaping diketones in way that we have been is not sufficient for reasonable concern for this particular condition. The fact that we currently know of zero cases, bodes well for the vaping community and how it relates to B.O.

Reduced lung function strikes me as "how could you not see that happening with vaping over the long term. Even if you vape unflavored?"

 

[wbbrn1952]

My apologies for weighing in when I'm not a NT customer (though I might be someday!).

From the Wikipedia page is link to the NIOSH document where the risk is presented with data regarding symptoms and onset. Some of the participants in this thread will note I've been saying 18 months for symptoms to show up, which was presented as 'factual data' in another thread. From the NIOSH doc, it reads:



I highlight the part in red because well, IMO, that is where reasonable concern is found.

Do we live in a world where people have been vaping (diketones) for 5 months, and/or up to 5 years? I would say yes on both counts. Me, I'm approaching my fifth year.

This is saying most cases, and not one or two out of the 8 or so that were diagnosed with B.O.

So, if we get to say 10 year mark in vaping community and most vapers do not have diagnosis of B.O. nor have issues of shortness of breath, then it is MOST reasonable to assume that vaping diketones in way that we have been is not sufficient for reasonable concern for this particular condition. The fact that we currently know of zero cases, bodes well for the vaping community and how it relates to B.O.

Reduced lung function strikes me as "how could you not see that happening with vaping over the long term. Even if you vape unflavored?"

When many of us started smoking we were not aware of the risks involved - cigarettes were common place and cheap - why the government put cigarettes in C-rats for the military. Cigarettes were advertised on TV - people regularly smoked on TV and no one said a thing. Then came the effects.

Well vaping is a relatively new thing and as such there is an inherent risk that is taken when you inhale anything into your lungs. As the industry evolves I am sure some things will present itself as a need to set levels and limits - but all this discussion - really has it stopped any of you from vaping?

I myself like the flavors I am vaping. I particularly do not want to see their profiles changed. It is a risk that I am willing to accept. I know Clark is looking to produce the best tasting - safest e-juice on the market - while this discussion is at times entertaining and at other times off the beaten path - what we should be demanding as vapors is transparency from the trade and that is what Clark is giving us with his product.

 

[Pinggolfer]

I signed into my Nicoticket account and looked at my past orders. I was surprised to still see them as it's been a year since my last order.

Nicoticket helped me stay off cigarettes and I remain thankful. So much so I decided to order a bottle of the Virus.

I don't ask what I should vape and I don't want to be told what I vape.

 

[Phassat]

Whoops... Never mind. I was reading some argument posts related with 5P but there has been many posts after that I was not aware.

Was about to suggest to bring 5P argument kept still in 5P thread

 

[Pinggolfer]

Whoops... Never mind. I was reading some argument posts related with 5P but there has been many posts after that I was not aware.

Was about to suggest to bring 5P argument kept still in 5P thread

Unfortunately it migrated here. Now it's gone for good.

 

[motabrownie]

v2 versions of some of the flavors are a work in progress. The problem is that the commercially available alternatives that reduce DAP levels below NIOSH levels taste like ****. What we are doing is compounding our own flavoring - specifically, vanilla, tobacco, and coffee (because they are the three worst offenders when it comes to DAP). As soon as we can put a product together that tastes good AND reduces the DAP profile, you'll be the first to know. The real problem is that WE LIKE THE TASTE of DAP. There is no viable alternative on the market place that tastes comparable. Our solution is transparency. We've been comparing and contrasting our offerings with other vendors - universally, the liquids that test out with DAP levels low enough to be considered NIOSH compliant fall into two groups... FRUIT, and ****.

Actually, there's quite a few vendors that are making some really good juice with little to no DAP. Theres a lot of former NT junkies that will attest to that. I was vaping a lot of Frenilla, Strawnilla, The Virus and my wife was vaping a lot of ACB. I think I was addicted to Nicoticket just as much as I was addicted to nicotine. What Ive found is, I don't need those flavor profiles in my life. I thought I did. Ive found flavors from other vendors that I enjoy that are in completely different flavor categories and contain little to no DAP. I also found other Strawberry creams/custards that are good and dont have the numbers Strawnilla has. I used to not care about diketones but Ive had a change of heart. I became a juice vegetarian if you will. I used to be a juice carnivore and vaped everything that tasted yummy without concern. Will I become a juice vegan? Who knows. That might be a stupid analogy but right now I'm content knowing that I've removed another layer of potential harm. And for the record, I could care less what other people vape. Im not telling anyone to do one thing or the other. Vape and do whatever you want, I say. My point is, juice with flavor profiles that traditionally have high DAP numbers can be made with little to no DAP, and it can be done very well. And yes, I know, taste is subjective. So if you're concerned with diketones its not the end of the world, you have options. You just gotta poke around!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Yeah, I dunno. I tried one of those "safe" diketone free vanilla custards.
After vaping it for a little while, I thought, I Gotti order some more Custard's Last Stand. It tasted like Frenilla farted in some Aquafina.

 

[Rossum]

I became a juice vegetarian if you will. I used to be a juice carnivore and vaped everything that tasted yummy without concern. Will I become a juice vegan?

What's a juice vegan? Someone who only vapes unflavored?

 

[Pinggolfer]

I tried a apple pie ala mode da free and it had no taste at all.

 

[beachroadbum]

After reading this thread I almost feel better going back to smoking a tobacco briar pipe or Swedish snus under the lip. I enjoyed a real nice virginia burley blend with a touch of perique earlier. No offense but this thread freaks me out. Peace all

 

[Gauntlgrym]

just in case people are interested.
the numbers that Dr.F has deemed semi-"acceptable" levels of AP are..... between 182-638ug per day (changes based on amount of ventilation and breathing rate)
keep in mind he still thinks the numbers should be 0, but this is what appears to be "acceptable"
source Why We Consider the NIOSH-Proposed Safety Limits for Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl Appropriate in the Risk Assessment of Electronic Cigarette Liquid Use: A Response to Hubbs et al.

so, if i am understanging this right....vaping 1ml of strawnilla already puts you over the limit??