Counterpoint: This sin tax is not about protecting kids(Opinion)

[oplholik]

Written By Victoria Vasconcellos Posted: 09/23/2015, 02:31pm
Victoria Vasconcellos is president of the Illinois Chapter of SFATA (Smoke Free Alternatives Trade Association).

When you’ve got nothing else, you’ve got to make it about the children.
Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s proposed tax on vapor products of $1.25 per e-cigarette device, plus 25 cents per milliliter of e-liquid would raise the price of a 30-milliliter bottle by $8.75. Currently, a 30-milliliter bottle costs between $12 and $22, plus local and state sales taxes.
The additional revenue generated is estimated to be a mere $1 million, barely a drop in the bucket. Just last week, Ald. Proco Joe Moreno said in media reports that he sees it as a way to try to fight the increasing use of the products among teens.


http://chicago.suntimes.com/opinion/7/71/983793/counterpoint-sin-tax-protecting-kids

 

[noel18]

Agreed. It's about government control and taking more of your money.

 

[EBates]

The Sin Tax is and has always been an excuse to Extort Money for Political Purposes. My question would to our Blessed Politicians would be What Have You done With All Of The Other Sin Tax Money? I'd be willing to bet that only a Very Small Portion goes to anything even vaguely related it's stated purpose. Sin Taxes have and will always be a form of Political Extortion and the ones proposing them should be Locked Up For The Criminals They Are.
Just my opinion

 

[edyle]

all sin taxes are divide and conquer.

get the blue team to support taxing red tea because the red team likes red tea.
then next year get the red team to support taxing blue tea because the blue team likes blue tea.

One Tax to Rule Them All

 

[Kent C]

Vices are those acts by which a man harms himself or his property.

Crimes are those acts by which one man harms the person or property of another.

Vices are simply the errors which a man makes in his search after his own happiness. Unlike crimes, they imply no malice toward others, and no interference with their persons or property.

In vices, the very essence of crime — that is, the design to injure the person or property of another — is wanting.

It is a maxim of the law that there can be no crime without a criminal intent; that is, without the intent to invade the person or property of another. But no one ever practices a vice with any such criminal intent. He practices his vice for his own happiness solely, and not from any malice toward others.

Unless this clear distinction between vices and crimes be made and recognized by the laws, there can be on earth no such thing as individual right, liberty, or property — no such things as the right of one man to the control of his own person and property, and the corresponding and coequal rights of another man to the control of his own person and property.

For a government to declare a vice to be a crime, and to punish it as such, is an attempt to falsify the very nature of things. It is as absurd as it would be to declare truth to be falsehood, or falsehood truth.
Intro to Vices Are Not Crimes by Lysander Spooner

There's more: scroll down to that title
https://mises.org/library/vices-are-not-crimes

 

[nicnik]

all sin taxes are divide and conquer.

Hmmm....they do do that, don't they. Starts with demonizing to lay the groundwork for taxing.

 

[EBates]

Hmmm....they do do that, don't they. Starts with demonizing to lay the groundwork for taxing.

The only difference in the case of e-cigs is that they can't demonstrate the 'actual evil' that e-cigs (supposedly) cause, as with cigs and alcohol. They have to 'Protect The Children' from the May, Possibly, We Don't Know Yet dangers of vaping. Politicians don't have male genitalia enough to admit they just want Your Money and Control Of Your Life.

 

[DC2]

The only difference in the case of e-cigs is that they can't demonstrate the 'actual evil' that e-cigs (supposedly) cause, as with cigs and alcohol. They have to 'Protect The Children' from the May, Possibly, We Don't Know Yet dangers of vaping. Politicians don't have male genitalia enough to admit they just want Your Money and Control Of Your Life.

When it comes to politicians, for the most part, I have a different theory.

I believe they are mostly pandering to those who can influence the number of votes they get...

1) Individual voters
2) Those who have influence over large blocks of voters
3) Those who contribute large campaign contributions
4) The media

It's all about the voters and the money, but only as it relates to getting or staying elected.

Regardless, all four of the items listed about still boil down in the end to getting the voters.
And the voters think nicotine is evil and we are nothing but shameful addicts.

That's the perception that really needs to be changed if we are to make any headway.

That's why education is the key.
And getting family and friends on your side is where it starts.

 

[Uma]

Vices are those acts by which a man harms himself or his property.

Crimes are those acts by which one man harms the person or property of another.

Vices are simply the errors which a man makes in his search after his own happiness. Unlike crimes, they imply no malice toward others, and no interference with their persons or property.

In vices, the very essence of crime — that is, the design to injure the person or property of another — is wanting.

It is a maxim of the law that there can be no crime without a criminal intent; that is, without the intent to invade the person or property of another. But no one ever practices a vice with any such criminal intent. He practices his vice for his own happiness solely, and not from any malice toward others.

Unless this clear distinction between vices and crimes be made and recognized by the laws, there can be on earth no such thing as individual right, liberty, or property — no such things as the right of one man to the control of his own person and property, and the corresponding and coequal rights of another man to the control of his own person and property.

For a government to declare a vice to be a crime, and to punish it as such, is an attempt to falsify the very nature of things. It is as absurd as it would be to declare truth to be falsehood, or falsehood truth.
Intro to Vices Are Not Crimes by Lysander Spooner

There's more: scroll down to that title
https://mises.org/library/vices-are-not-crimes

Well said.
If only both the voters & politicians knew the constitution.

 

[EBates]

Well I could be totally wrong, but my plan in upcoming elections is 'If You Are In Office, You Are Gone', 'If You Are A Career Politician, You Are Gone'. I'll put Trump in office long before any of the 'Political Show Dogs' backed by any 'Political Party'.
I'm Very Sick Of Politics As Usual.

 

[collinsmcrae]

Order a gallon of 100mg nic solution. They won't be able to tax 0mg nic e-liquid. There is simply no way that they could ever classify a pg/vg solution, with artificial flavoring, as a tobacco product. Anyway, once the sin tax passes, and it will because there are more people who don't give a .... than there are vapers, simply purchase 0mg nic e liquid (sin tax free) and add in the nic. A gallon should last you forever and a day. These rules are unjust, but you can future proof yourself. I already make my own juice, as good as any premium vendor, at a stupid cheap cost. I'd like to see the government sin tax flavor extracts, because that's literally the only way they could get a penny out of me as far as vaping goes.

 

[skoony]

Order a gallon of 100mg nic solution. They won't be able to tax 0mg nic e-liquid. There is simply no way that they could ever classify a pg/vg solution, with artificial flavoring, as a tobacco product. Anyway, once the sin tax passes, and it will because there are more people who don't give a .... than there are vapers, simply purchase 0mg nic e liquid (sin tax free) and add in the nic. A gallon should last you forever and a day. These rules are unjust, but you can future proof yourself. I already make my own juice, as good as any premium vendor, at a stupid cheap cost. I'd like to see the government sin tax flavor extracts, because that's literally the only way they could get a penny out of me as far as vaping goes.

Indiana and Arkansas have classified nic free e-juice as a tobacco product. California is about to enact similar
legislation.
Regards
Mike

 

[zapped]

Exactly what sin am I committing by being being smarter than smokers?

 

[pennysmalls]

Indiana and Arkansas have classified nic free e-juice as a tobacco product. California is about to enact similar
legislation.
Regards
Mike

I'm looking forward to seeing how that classification plays out in the court system here in Indiana. There's no way it can stick, and if it does I'll lose absolutely all faith in the justice system.

 

[skoony]

I'm looking forward to seeing how that classification plays out in the court system here in Indiana. There's no way it can stick, and if it does I'll lose absolutely all faith in the justice system.

There will not be a court case. Remember the formaldehyde and other toxins found in some juice?
That and the chillin' thing. Nope, no grounds for a court case.
Regards
Mike

 

[TheLordWinter]

Can't exactly say the Sin Taxes weren't coming, or that we didn't see this coming. With the profit margin on eliquids, it was just a matter of time before the dollar signs started flashing in the eyes of politicians in search of more profits to rape for their own pet projects.

When it comes to politicians, for the most part, I have a different theory.

I believe they are mostly pandering to those who can influence the number of votes they get... It's all about the voters and the money, but only as it relates to getting or staying elected.

There's no way this isn't going to sound crass, but honest question here... At what point were we given the impression that our politics functioned differently from this? It baffles me that anyone who watches or reads news regularly, especially during election time, can believe otherwise in the face of the spectacle that our elections have become.

Well I could be totally wrong, but my plan in upcoming elections is 'If You Are In Office, You Are Gone', 'If You Are A Career Politician, You Are Gone'. I'll put Trump in office long before any of the 'Political Show Dogs' backed by any 'Political Party'.
I'm Very Sick Of Politics As Usual.

You'd put a man in office who blatantly treats our elections like another episode in his reality show? That's a level of unpredictability that we don't need in our politics right now.

 

[Kent C]

Exactly what sin am I committing by being being smarter than smokers?

Being smart is a sin against "equality". :- )

 

[pennysmalls]

There will not be a court case. Remember the formaldehyde and other toxins found in some juice?
That and the chillin' thing. Nope, no grounds for a court case.
Regards
Mike

I'm not sure where you've gotten that information but yes, this will be in court. The lawyers are hired and preparations have already begun. It will probably be several months before it's heard but it will happen.

 

[skoony]

I'm not sure where you've gotten that information but yes, this will be in court. The lawyers are hired and preparations have already begun. It will probably be several months before it's heard but it will happen.

It won't get to court. These public safety issues were already battled and beaten back
after the no smoking bans. They do not even need scientific evidence. They have the
chillin' and the "we don't know 20 years down the road" argument. It will be determined
that its in the best interest of the state to regulate it as tobacco because 1.,the chillin'
and all that and 2.,it is a new generation of tobacco product. Even if they think they
might have a case nothing will happen until the FDA finishes with there deeming process.
If the FDA deems them tobacco products its all over. Look, I am not on their side however,
its pretty obvious they are not taking us seriously. My county just did an end run around
all the city's in the county and banned e-cigs the same as smoking. Here where there were
no grandma's getting ambushed by cloud chasers in the cereal isles. No boorish vapers
blowing fire extinguisher sized clouds in the faces of little baby's. I took the time to read the
ordinance. Its a word for word copy of legislation from the CDC's hand book on how to word
such legislation except for allowing tasting in tobacco stores and inserting the county name.
I figure they spent a total of ten minutes prep work. We do not have the political clout.
The big gang is coming to take our little gangs territory. They can and will because the general public
doesn't care and or know whats at stake. The general public is to busy watching the carrot's
being dangled in front of their faces. Namely,paying off student debt and or free college tuition
and a host of other freebie's. We are all just tobacco product users now. You know tobacco is
bad for you,right?
Regards
Mike

 

[zoiDman]

Indiana and Arkansas have classified nic free e-juice as a tobacco product. California is about to enact similar
legislation.
Regards
Mike

Can you site this CA Legislation that is about to be Enacted?

Thanks.