Do you think the fda will regulate everything?

[zapped]

*****I hope mod suppliers are paying attention*****

I think the smart ones will offer multi-purpose tools.

For instance, it would be VERY easy to sell a Provari or other mod with a flashlight attachment that screws on and off using a 510 connection.

The FDA cant patent that.....much less regulate it.

 

[Scotticus93]

Big Tobacco and big medicine and Government have a symbiotic relationship.. It is in the positive interest of the BOTH industries and the goverment to have smokers. The more the better. Not smoking is bad, reduces profits, reduces tax revenue, reduces illnesses. vaping threatens profits of BOTH the medical industry and tobacco. Those profits pay for politicians.

As they say, Follow the Money.

So many anti smoking ads and ANTZ tho. Now I feel like ANTZ arent the biggest enemy. These convos have been going on for a couple years on this site. Was it only after that rough draft of the regulations came out last year. I thought vapers on here were just being government haters. I didn't know this was a serious issue or our government was this stupid, greedy, and corrupt

 

[Scotticus93]

You don't think they want you to be healthy and live to 100, do you?

Sorry for replying so much guys. And I've been told the liberal idea of healthcare anyway is a healthy public is less healthcare costs which makes health insurance more affordable and available. As they say. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It ain't cheap to get a new lung

 

[roxynoodle]

Sorry for replying so much guys. And I've been told the liberal idea of healthcare anyway is a healthy public is less healthcare costs which makes health insurance more affordable and available. As they say. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It ain't cheap to get a new lung

Oh, no. The longer people live, the more their healthcare costs. And the longer they get paid Social Security/pension.

 

[Oregon Linda]

Oh, no. The longer people live, the more their healthcare costs. And the longer they get paid Social Security/pension.

Absolutely. Smokers dying young save the government all kinds of money.

 

[Daoshen]

Absolutely. Smokers dying young save the government all kinds of money.

Don't forget all those sweet insurance premiums they can gouge you on if you're a smoker.

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

Still trying to get caught up on here. Thanks for the great conversation on here guys. I would say the only thing I support is limiting access to minors. Web sites should be required to somehow you put your drivers license in or maybe social number?! (Scary I know) so they can check your age. Other than that. I think flavors are fine. There's plenty of flavored cigars on the market. Maybe somehow batteries and mods could be regulated to be safer (trying to ban mechs) but people could get around it with the flash light thing if they wanna go that far. Like I said doesn't the FCC somehow regulate the electronic components or not? I swear I've seen there logo on atties before

Well if you support any regulations you pretty much are supporting them all. There's no half way with the FDA. They aren't about just age limits and labeling. Their goal is to regulate us out of existence. Once they are given authority over vaping it's over.

We already have age limits. I've yet to see any children in vape shops. Every online shop I've been to has an age verification before you enter the site. If a child can get their daddy or mommy's credit card then shame on the parent not the vape shop. The credit card company doesn't issue credit cards to unemployed children. Where are all these children getting vape supplies? It's not that they are walking into vape shops or online stores, they are getting them from older friends, older brothers, or parents allowing it in some way. Setting age limits isn't going to do anything. They'll still get their hands on them just like they do cigarettes with age limits.

I don't support any regulations for the simple fact that the FDA loves to use that against us. Imagine the FDA using, "Well many of the vapers agree we need age limits and labeling. Many are fearful of their lives because of Diacetyl in their liquids!"

 

[Rule62]

Before I retired, I was a union member for about 40 years. During that time, I had the opportunity to be on several contract negotiating committees. The most important thing I learned about negotiating is this: You don't enter into negotiating with a 'tipped hand'. You don't start out by saying what you are willing to give up, in order to arrive at an agreement. Everybody, on both sides knows that they probably aren't going to get everything. There will be compromise. But you don't start out, on day one, stating what compromise you'll accept.

 

[philoshop]

Before I retired, I was a union member for about 40 years. During that time, I had the opportunity to be on several contract negotiating committees. The most important thing I learned about negotiating is this: You don't enter into negotiating with a 'tipped hand'. You don't start out by saying what you are willing to give up, in order to arrive at an agreement. Everybody, on both sides knows that they probably aren't going to get everything. There will be compromise. But you don't start out, on day one, stating what compromise you'll accept.

It's called 'dumping your briefcase'.

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

Before I retired, I was a union member for about 40 years. During that time, I had the opportunity to be on several contract negotiating committees. The most important thing I learned about negotiating is this: You don't enter into negotiating with a 'tipped hand'. You don't start out by saying what you are willing to give up, in order to arrive at an agreement. Everybody, on both sides knows that they probably aren't going to get everything. There will be compromise. But you don't start out, on day one, stating what compromise you'll accept.

Exactly!

 

[philoshop]

Regulation is control. Big Government likes control.
The financial aspect of this particular struggle is not the end game, but rather a means to an end...control.
Big Government does not like it when citizens take control of their own lives, in this case using vaping as a means to reduce or eliminate smoking, because it suggests that free people and the free-market system might actually work if allowed to continue.

If a government entity (or a close ally such as the pharmaceutical industry) had been responsible for the invention and development of vaping into what we currently have, we wouldn't even be having these discussions about the FDA.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Yes! Yes! Yes! People focus on the money, the real game is command and control. You see it in "speech codes" and "trigger warnings" - no money but stunning thought control. You see it in light bulbs and toilets - little government revenue but quite a restriction of choice, much of which is counter produtive. You see it in automobiles and toys - taxation, no, but restriction. You see it in what passes for "education", it controls the curriculum, the school attended and the food consumed therein. The school's costs are out of line with benefit but the opportunity to create subservient mind is incalculable.

The government has the stated aim, safety, the planet or children but the primary and unstated aim is control. There is no regulation that does not control behavior, i.e., freedom.

Philoshop, you hit the bulls-eye, if "hit the bulls-eye" doesn't offend anyone.

Regulation is control. Big Government likes control.
The financial aspect of this particular struggle is not the end game, but rather a means to an end...control.
Big Government does not like it when citizens take control of their own lives, in this case using vaping as a means to reduce or eliminate smoking, because it suggests that free people and the free-market system might actually work if allowed to continue.

If a government entity (or a close ally such as the pharmaceutical industry) had been responsible for the invention and development of vaping into what we currently have, we wouldn't even be having these
discussions about the FDA.

 

[Scotticus93]

Well if you support any regulations you pretty much are supporting them all. There's no half way with the FDA. They aren't about just age limits and labeling. Their goal is to regulate us out of existence. Once they are given authority over vaping it's over.

We already have age limits. I've yet to see any children in vape shops. Every online shop I've been to has an age verification before you enter the site. If a child can get their daddy or mommy's credit card then shame on the parent not the vape shop. The credit card company doesn't issue credit cards to unemployed children. Where are all these children getting vape supplies? It's not that they are walking into vape shops or online stores, they are getting them from older friends, older brothers, or parents allowing it in some way. Setting age limits isn't going to do anything. They'll still get their hands on them just like they do cigarettes with age limits.

I don't support any regulations for the simple fact that the FDA loves to use that against us. Imagine the FDA using, "Well many of the vapers agree we need age limits and labeling. Many are fearful of their lives because of Diacetyl in their liquids!"

A 16 year old kid can get a job and a debit card subsequently they could just lie about their birthday on the site. I do agree there's no halfway with the fda. Kids get adults to buy them cigs anyway tho. I would rather them vape than smoke and ultimately rather them do neither.

 

[BreSha6869]

A 16 year old kid can get a job and a debit card subsequently they could just lie about their birthday on the site. I do agree there's no halfway with the fda. Kids get adults to buy them cigs anyway tho. I would rather them vape than smoke and ultimately rather them do neither.

Very true.

I recently ordered a bunch of vape gear online and was asked for my name and address and paid by bank transfer. No age info required and this is one of Canada's largest web vape resellers. My 3 year old has a bank account. She can't quite spell yet, but that isn't far off.

 

[Jdurand]

Here in the United States, you can get ANYTHING you want, be it legal or not. Does anybody really think the government has the resources to even begin to enforce the regulations they want to put into place? The "war on Nicotine"....ya right, give me a break. Any one want to wager a lot of this goes away after elections are over?

And on the matter of enforcement....what exactly will my penalty be for vaping evil nicotine in an unregulated device containing unapproved free flowing juice? Gonna jail me over nicotine? Give me a ticket? Levy a fine? What if I refuse to pay your fine, what are you going to do about it?

C'mon people, realize this is just another joke of a rule being tossed around by the government to protect their pockets, that kind of truth eventually gets understood even by the most unconscionable zealots.

 

[skoony]

Here in the United States, you can get ANYTHING you want, be it legal or not. Does anybody really think the government has the resources to even begin to enforce the regulations they want to put into place? The "war on Nicotine"....ya right, give me a break. Any one want to wager a lot of this goes away after elections are over?

And on the matter of enforcement....what exactly will my penalty be for vaping evil nicotine in an unregulated device containing unapproved free flowing juice? Gonna jail me over nicotine? Give me a ticket? Levy a fine? What if I refuse to pay your fine, what are you going to do about it?

C'mon people, realize this is just another joke of a rule being tossed around by the government to protect their pockets, that kind of truth eventually gets understood even by the most unconscionable zealots.

Yes. Remember 90% or more of the population will obey the law whatever that may be.
We are not using unpasteurized milk and will get no sympathy from the general public.

Regards
Mike

 

[englishmick]

Yes. Remember 90% or more of the population will obey the law whatever that may be.
We are not using unpasteurized milk and will get no sympathy from the general public.

Regards
Mike

Guy I work with owns 5% of a cow on a local farm. That entitles him to 1 gal of unpasteurized a week which he picks up at a local health food store. A bit more trouble than going to the supermarket but not so bad. They didn't make it illegal to possess or drink, so if you own a cow you are free to have at it. Turned out you could own part of a cow.

Maybe one day someone with a field of tobacco and an extraction facility will be leasing out his field in 40 sq ft lots.

 

[Jdurand]

But 90% of the population don't vape. Now if you mean 90% of the vaping population will obey the law, then I believe you are wrong. let's not forget we are talking about addiction here.

 

[Jdurand]

Guy I work with owns 5% of a cow on a local farm. That entitles him to 1 gal of unpasteurized a week which he picks up at a local health food store. A bit more trouble than going to the supermarket but not so bad. They didn't make it illegal to possess or drink, so if you own a cow you are free to have at it. Turned out you could own part of a cow.

Maybe one day someone with a field of tobacco and an extraction facility will be leasing out his field in 40 sq ft lots.

You see, there are already interesting work arounds being entertained. The government stands no chance to enforce this.

 

[Robino1]

Do I think Obama cares? Obama care about a loss of liberty, about an increase of governmental power? I will refrain from further comment and spare Robino1 the effort required to delete the comment.

I thank you for the consideration