EU Any news?
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The Eu will regulate Christmas candles now (no joke) - the maximum permitted length of the flame, labeling, warning messages - (you could burn your fingers) - everything must be regulated for a safe future 
Well, I'm just wondering why they haven't banned salt yet. It migh kill people...Oh and sugar as well, definetely.The Eu will regulate Christmas candles now (no joke) - the maximum permitted length of the flame, labeling, warning messages - (you could burn your fingers) - everything must be regulated for a safe future
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This is new and looks really bad: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32015D2183&from=UK
Noticed they include a submission form for products. I know the FDA will have requirements, but could learn about paperwork reduction from tippi's link.
This just goes from bad to worse. After previous attempts to get off of tobacco failed I finally discovered vaping and good equipment and have now been smoke free for 7 weeks - with a great and noticeable improvement to my health - now it looks like this is going to be taken away from me. I know I'm not the only one feeling like this, and I'm sure everyone has signed the Petition, but his accursed thing looks like it's going to go ahead anyway.
So much for Democracy! But as the man said "if it did any good they'd have banned it years ago."
So much for Democracy! But as the man said "if it did any good they'd have banned it years ago."
Yes, but that's just how it is. There's not much we can do about it. Just stock up on rba's, battery switchable mods and nicotine and cross our fingers.
Vapez
My own thoughts Vapez - I'm researching basic bomb proof unregulated box mods and solid atomisers with coils that I can make myself as we speak...
Its not the end of vaping in Europe, from what I understand. Two Categories will be formed. Medicinal if the manufacturer can get a medicine licence and all other devices with fall under the Tobacco products directive. Clear warning label, product behind roller shutter etc. I have the definition of two categories I'll try and upload.
The biggest loser are refillables, they need to have a proven way to refill without spilling liquid. A system like this doesn't exist as far as I know. Makes no difference to me as I've always preferred cigalike type cartomisers. The hit is stronger, they generally contain more nicotine, and certainly will after regulation as the maximum new strength only applies to bottled liquid, not prefilled sealed cartomisers. Plus they are more discreet, the nicotine concentration is higher and so using a cigalike cartomiser has no requirement to blow massive volumes of vapour. Refillables are too big and complicated, I could never be bothered, smoking tobacco was simple. I may be unusual though. I completely understand I'm an addict of nicotine, I've now found a new but similar way to deliver it which is a lot healthier than tobacco.
I stopped convincing myself I enjoyed tobacco many years ago. Lots of tobacco users are still in denial about the enjoyment part of tobacco use, which I completely understand. I mean, why would we carry on using tobacco when we know its killing us? Because we enjoy it right?
The reason this waffling on is relevant here? Its because I recently came to an understanding about the new vape shop, modding, cloud blowing, million flavour craze. If you believe you enjoy your tobacco smoking then maybe you swap your old enjoyable killing you hobby for a healthier new hobby, which now occupies your addicted mind with flavour choice, tuning, modding ideas and all kinds of new ways to enjoy your nicotine addiction. So, the new way to vape will still satisfy the nicotine craving, just without so much complicated hobby type so called fun element, which is pretty pointless anyway, in my opinion. We are all just nicotine addicts, maybe more people will start to understand and admit to themselves and move on. Maybe even quit altogether. Most people in the world do seem to manage to live without ever smoking or vaping and they still have fun.
I'll stop waffling now and post the picture if I can
Its not the end of vaping in Europe, from what I understand. Two Categories will be formed. Medicinal if the manufacturer can get a medicine licence and all other devices with fall under the Tobacco products directive. Clear warning label, product behind roller shutter etc. I have the definition of two categories I'll try and upload.
The biggest loser are refillables, they need to have a proven way to refill without spilling liquid. A system like this doesn't exist as far as I know. Makes no difference to me as I've always preferred cigalike type cartomisers. The hit is stronger, they generally contain more nicotine, and certainly will after regulation as the maximum new strength only applies to bottled liquid, not prefilled sealed cartomisers. Plus they are more discreet, the nicotine concentration is higher and so using a cigalike cartomiser has no requirement to blow massive volumes of vapour. Refillables are too big and complicated, I could never be bothered, smoking tobacco was simple. I may be unusual though. I completely understand I'm an addict of nicotine, I've now found a new but similar way to deliver it which is a lot healthier than tobacco.
I stopped convincing myself I enjoyed tobacco many years ago. Lots of tobacco users are still in denial about the enjoyment part of tobacco use, which I completely understand. I mean, why would we carry on using tobacco when we know its killing us? Because we enjoy it right?
The reason this waffling on is relevant here? Its because I recently came to an understanding about the new vape shop, modding, cloud blowing, million flavour craze. If you believe you enjoy your tobacco smoking then maybe you swap your old enjoyable killing you hobby for a healthier new hobby, which now occupies your addicted mind with flavour choice, tuning, modding ideas and all kinds of new ways to enjoy your nicotine addiction. So, the new way to vape will still satisfy the nicotine craving, just without so much complicated hobby type so called fun element, which is pretty pointless anyway, in my opinion. We are all just nicotine addicts, maybe more people will start to understand and admit to themselves and move on. Maybe even quit altogether. Most people in the world do seem to manage to live without ever smoking or vaping and they still have fun. View attachment 511170
I'll stop waffling now and post the picture if I can
WEll if you are happy with cigalikes, then maybe you will be ok. Many, however, are not and have moved away from that 'technology'. Vaping on a white plastic stick with a big blue LED on the end is hardly discreet. Pretty ridicuIous I would suggest...Refillables are not, at present limited in nic concentration but by and large, deliver a much better 'hit' that doesnt require such high levels anyway. Also, I personally like the hobby element which you see as pointless. To be honest, I was glad your waffle ended!
I accept and understand that there won't be many cigalike support among the pages of these forums. You won't find many that want a simple alternative to tobacco here at all, we're all busy trying to not make a big deal out of our nicotine delivery system. We're all suitably embarrassed that we have to use nicotine at all.
I've been using an electronic cigarette in all the various forms for 7 years. The refillable types are more like the old fashioned 3 part cigalikes. I can't see the 2nd 3rd fourth generation argument as plausible. The generations seem to just add bigger tanks and bigger more powerful batteries to simply enable the big fat coils to operate to produce even more vapour. Same system.
Refillable business model seems to be all about selling you the latest kit, hence the generation thing. The enjoyable hobby part of nicotine addiction makes you want the latest best device so users tend to constantly be upgrading and spending more money. Which is perfectly acceptable, the vendors need to eat, its saving customers lives, its all good.
I genuinely believe that there are a lot of tobacco users who are presented with all these new fangled devices, they are too busy to be bothered creating a new hobby around nicotine, they get tired of it all, pop it in a drawer and go back to using tobacco.
Keep it simple, like smoking was. Then more people will make the switch permanent. Its bad enough we have to charge the things up, that's what put me off in the first place. I'm used to it now, but still cant be arsed making it my hobby and upgrading, using flavours, pimping up my cloud and all that.
I can accept that maybe I'm physiologically different to everyone else, but, on throat hit, I found a direct link to nicotine content, less nicotine, less throat hit. Throat hit is irritation, nicotine causes the irritation of the throat. No nicotine, no irritation. I've tried them all, I have a drawer full. Like I say, maybe I'm different. But what else could the throat hit be? Can't be heat, its not hot enough.
I reckon big tobacco are in most part cigalike because its the most likely to work for individuals switching long term from tobacco. If we were to make the switch from Coke to diet coke a complicated and very different switch then most people would maybe try it and go back to the easy way, or choose the path of least resistance. I don't like big tobacco but I have to respect their expertise on nicotine addiction. Its a shame that their devices tend to be weak and pathetic, maybe its about making the experience a bit mute so the user goes back to tobacco use.
I've been using an electronic cigarette in all the various forms for 7 years. The refillable types are more like the old fashioned 3 part cigalikes. I can't see the 2nd 3rd fourth generation argument as plausible. The generations seem to just add bigger tanks and bigger more powerful batteries to simply enable the big fat coils to operate to produce even more vapour. Same system.
Refillable business model seems to be all about selling you the latest kit, hence the generation thing. The enjoyable hobby part of nicotine addiction makes you want the latest best device so users tend to constantly be upgrading and spending more money. Which is perfectly acceptable, the vendors need to eat, its saving customers lives, its all good.
I genuinely believe that there are a lot of tobacco users who are presented with all these new fangled devices, they are too busy to be bothered creating a new hobby around nicotine, they get tired of it all, pop it in a drawer and go back to using tobacco.
Keep it simple, like smoking was. Then more people will make the switch permanent. Its bad enough we have to charge the things up, that's what put me off in the first place. I'm used to it now, but still cant be arsed making it my hobby and upgrading, using flavours, pimping up my cloud and all that.
I can accept that maybe I'm physiologically different to everyone else, but, on throat hit, I found a direct link to nicotine content, less nicotine, less throat hit. Throat hit is irritation, nicotine causes the irritation of the throat. No nicotine, no irritation. I've tried them all, I have a drawer full. Like I say, maybe I'm different. But what else could the throat hit be? Can't be heat, its not hot enough.
I reckon big tobacco are in most part cigalike because its the most likely to work for individuals switching long term from tobacco. If we were to make the switch from Coke to diet coke a complicated and very different switch then most people would maybe try it and go back to the easy way, or choose the path of least resistance. I don't like big tobacco but I have to respect their expertise on nicotine addiction. Its a shame that their devices tend to be weak and pathetic, maybe its about making the experience a bit mute so the user goes back to tobacco use.
I read chesney67's post with great interest and respect his viewpoint but can I offer a slightly different one:-
I tried cig- a - likes some three years ago; they did not work for me and I went back to smoking. That said, I really wanted them to work, had my mind right to make them work but they didn't - weak hit short battery life too many "dead men" in the refills.
I wanted something that would offer a good solid hit, that had a battery that would last all day, and would give me a draw which was as near to that offered by my beloved pipes as possible.
I don't fart about once I settle on a system - come on I'm the man who smoked Falcon pipes and wrote about the things since 1974!
When I find a system that works for me I stick with it....first tobacco for a pipe I ever bought was St Bruno back in 1968 and what was I smoking up til I started vaping ? - yup you guessed it St Bruno!
This time around I started with an e-pipe gifted to me by my son-in law; it fired at 3.7 volts on a 1.8 Ohm coil and worked just fine for me apart from it's short battery life.
I found via discussions at my local vape shop and research here that an iStick30w and a Nautilus Mini could be a good choice for what I wanted. It was - so I now have three of these.
There is only one thing that will make me change and that is Government Legislation - so "just in case" I will buy a fully mech mod, learn to build 1.8 ohm coils and buy a rebuildable atty. If I have to do this will I change or upgrade? - no way Jose!
Sorry about the different scripts - don't know what happened - will log off and come back in to see if things go back to normal! Aged Computer user here!
I tried cig- a - likes some three years ago; they did not work for me and I went back to smoking. That said, I really wanted them to work, had my mind right to make them work but they didn't - weak hit short battery life too many "dead men" in the refills.
I wanted something that would offer a good solid hit, that had a battery that would last all day, and would give me a draw which was as near to that offered by my beloved pipes as possible.
I don't fart about once I settle on a system - come on I'm the man who smoked Falcon pipes and wrote about the things since 1974!
When I find a system that works for me I stick with it....first tobacco for a pipe I ever bought was St Bruno back in 1968 and what was I smoking up til I started vaping ? - yup you guessed it St Bruno!
This time around I started with an e-pipe gifted to me by my son-in law; it fired at 3.7 volts on a 1.8 Ohm coil and worked just fine for me apart from it's short battery life.
I found via discussions at my local vape shop and research here that an iStick30w and a Nautilus Mini could be a good choice for what I wanted. It was - so I now have three of these.
There is only one thing that will make me change and that is Government Legislation - so "just in case" I will buy a fully mech mod, learn to build 1.8 ohm coils and buy a rebuildable atty. If I have to do this will I change or upgrade? - no way Jose!
Sorry about the different scripts - don't know what happened - will log off and come back in to see if things go back to normal! Aged Computer user here!
The proposed changes are about protecting big business and tax income. They are going to go ahead. It looks like we will end up with a choice of simple ciggalike type devices or a return to tobacco. I have tried a whole range of devices, and nicotine strengths and have finally settled on a mechanical squonker, 14mg unflavoured with a 1.8 ohm coil. No big clouds but it is very simple, effective, and robust. Should I need to I can fix it with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers. I am stocking up on nicotine for my freezer until I am unable to buy it any more. Everything else I need is available from the high street and is used for other things other than vaping.
I agree with your post and the point that the market should be promoting more of the products that are simple to use to help people make the switch. Those products are out there, but they just don't get the attention that the new "shiny" 1000 watt mind-control device gets in the community, but that's not unusual in our culture for any product.
I do take exception to the part I quoted above, though. I'm not at all embarrassed that I have to use nicotine, and in my opinion, nobody should be. It's not much different from caffeine, and for me it helps with my moderate A.D.D., so I don't have to take harmful pharma drugs and all their many side-effects. People who have made the smart choice to give up smoking for a safer alternative should not feel any shame in their decision, regardless of the reason they made the switch.
I do take exception to the part I quoted above, though. I'm not at all embarrassed that I have to use nicotine, and in my opinion, nobody should be. It's not much different from caffeine, and for me it helps with my moderate A.D.D., so I don't have to take harmful pharma drugs and all their many side-effects. People who have made the smart choice to give up smoking for a safer alternative should not feel any shame in their decision, regardless of the reason they made the switch.
"We're all suitably embarrassed that we have to use nicotine at all."
I agree with BuGlen that there's no reason to be embarrassed about using nicotine. Nicotine has been unscientifically villified for decades because of its association with smoking combustible tobacco.
I personally don't have to use nicotine. I can get complete satisfaction and freedom from the desire to "smoke" simply from vaping my favorite e-liquid flavors... even if I use zero nicotine.
Like BuGlen, I choose to continue using nicotine. In my case, I've researched nicotine for quite some time and have concluded that the benefits of nicotine are something I want to always have going for me. For the remainder of my life. The possibility of delaying the onset of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, for example. I also want the benefit of possible improved focus, concentration, memory.
I agree with BuGlen that there's no reason to be embarrassed about using nicotine. Nicotine has been unscientifically villified for decades because of its association with smoking combustible tobacco.
I personally don't have to use nicotine. I can get complete satisfaction and freedom from the desire to "smoke" simply from vaping my favorite e-liquid flavors... even if I use zero nicotine.
Like BuGlen, I choose to continue using nicotine. In my case, I've researched nicotine for quite some time and have concluded that the benefits of nicotine are something I want to always have going for me. For the remainder of my life. The possibility of delaying the onset of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, for example. I also want the benefit of possible improved focus, concentration, memory.
Our government (germany) is planning a blanket ban of all flavours in E-cigarettes. Definitely. Sad for all future vapers, and a big win for the tobacco industry this is..
Vapez, the closest thing to eternal life in this Vale of Tears is a government regulation. It'll never go away.
I'm with you here - while I love my natuilus mini and iSticks and have laid in big stocks of coils and juice, my next purchase is to be a simple bomb proof squonker and as much diy liquid as I can acquire. Don't know if there will be a "black market" but suspect there will...not that I would use such a thing of course...
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