FDA and the E-Cig Industry

[Bunnykiller]

you do have a point... why isnt caffeine considered a drug, it does things to the body and mind ( IMO even more so than nic)...
if caffeine isnt an issue for consumption, then why is 1/3rd of the coffee isle filled with decaffeinated coffee?

 

[Dzaw]

Caffine surely is a drug and if you look, you will find that the FDA does regulate it.

They're far kinder for caffine than they want to be for us - mostly because they aren't losing money by being kind to caffine. However, you can't purchase a ready for consumption caffine tablet (such as vivarin) with more than 200mg per pill. There are dosage limits for sodas and energy drinks, etc.

Not that deeming e cigarette as a tobacco product would leave anything like that kind of flexibility in the following regulatory structure, but to a Washington Bureaucrat, its all the same.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

do they regulate the food delivery devices that are used to help me eat?? my fork and plates and bowls?

Shhhh... don't give the Nazis any ideas.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

It's just going to be a Tax on the juice. And just as long as I can get my 24mg or bottles of nicotine I will be fine.

But if the FDA becomes tyrant's on this issue I will start buying my juice from over seas. A place that doesn't declare they are sending ejuice.

A Few Tobacco Companies have jumped into the eCig foray. I believe Blue eCig is now owned by a Tobacco company. While the other Tobacco companies see eCigs as a threat to their business. They should be scared of course. The past three years the industry has grown a lot. When was the last time any one ordered or seen Cartomizer's?

I just don't want my bottles of eJuice to double in price due to tax. Also Big Tobacco having their lobbyist on Capital Hill doesn't help and they have a lot of resources. Further I don't want the FDA dictating to us that we can only buy certain levels of nicotine in our products.

Chicago passed a tax on all e-cig related materials that starts Jan 1, 2016, and juice is to be taxed $0.55 cents per ml!

I think b/c big tobacco has lost control of their market to the City/State/Feds, they are doing their best to control the future of nicotine delivery methods. They never considered the cigarette anything more than a nicotine delivery method...one we were freebasing nicotine, ammonia, and their 2,500+ chemicals.

I'm a sys admin like you. Was working on moving to DevOps, and have been on and off studying VMware, Python, and everything else.

 

[supertrunker]

How exactly are they proposing to collect such a tax? They expect people to willingly self-declare it and pay up?

Jan 1st may as well be April 1st.

I shall be using a battery holder, the same as for the last few years.

T

 

[Tommy-Chi]

How exactly are they proposing to collect such a tax? They expect people to willingly self-declare it and pay up?

Jan 1st may as well be April 1st.

I shall be using a battery holder, the same as for the last few years.

T

According to what I have read of the actual law, they plan to NOT tax the retailer or wholesaler directly, but the retail client at the register.

Like all things, I expect some shops to try and get around this. I spoke to the owner of a decent vape shop in Chicago last week, and he said, he went to every meeting they held, and they were never allowed to give any input. The tax will raise 30ml juice, no matter what concentrate, $16.60. The owner said, I've got some bottles of juice at 60ml and 120ml...and nobody is going to buy them. He said one juice he sells for $60 is going to be more than $120.

They are going to try some work-arounds but the City of Chicago(60+ yrs Democrat rule, $1.5 billion in debt), the county it resides in Cook County(25+ yrs Democrat rule, 5 billion in debt), and the State of Illinois(25+ yrs Democrat rule, $10 billion in debt) have been run by Democrats for a long time....as you can see by the numbers in parens, and they are in debt billions.

The tax on vape gear was just the tip of the iceberg. The total tax is going to be over $775 million on _JUST_ the City of Chicago...and the Democrats that control the state legislature, from where Mr.Obama is from, refuse to cut any of the budget for the new Republican Governor.

 

[Salt&PePPer]

JESUUS CHRIST 55 cents. Eff Chingada! So my 15ml bottle is going to cost me $8.25 more. That is more than the cosr of the juice. Looks like you will be ordering off the Internet and try to Avoid any places online that will make you pay excise tax. That is just putting an industry out of business. Ridiculous!

 

[Tommy-Chi]

JESUUS CHRIST 55 cents. Eff Chingada! So my 15ml bottle is going to cost me $8.25 more. That is more than the cosr of the juice. Looks like you will be ordering off the Internet and try to Avoid any places online that will make you pay excise tax. That is just putting an industry out of business. Ridiculous!

Yes. Internet purchases and visiting vape shops out where my mother lives 35 miles West of Chicago. This is the very reason why I've purchased at least 100 different brands of e-juice and ten - 250ml bottles of nicotine since Sept 7th. I'm going heavily in to DIY, but I need to know what recipies I'm even looking for.

 

[Salt&PePPer]

I understand that the FDA is suppose to have our health and best interest in mind (Horse Chit, that statement could not be farther from the truth) with lobbying and lobbyist having the ears and give money to the pockets of congressmen on capital hill. It is an uphill battle for a bunch on enthusiast like us! It's always the same Mierda (Spanish/Latin - for excrement) for the little guys. Here is a big middle finger for organized politics. And the really do deserve it.

 

[supertrunker]

i think the FDA is wildly optimistic in the amount of tax they think they can collect. It will be nothing like the huge amounts government taxes tobacco.

Not even close.

Think about that for a moment; it means a government is not taking the money it thought it would. They will look for other sources of revenue.

T

 

[beckdg]

Please see FDA history of racketeering and strong arm tactics in favor of big business for your answers as to why they were chosen to spear head an all inclusive anti-vaping campaign.

Tapatyped

 

[zahzoo]

i think the FDA is wildly optimistic in the amount of tax they think they can collect. It will be nothing like the huge amounts government taxes tobacco.

Not even close.

Think about that for a moment; it means a government is not taking the money it thought it would. They will look for other sources of revenue.

T

Please understand... the FDA is not a taxing authority. They are not proposing to tax e-cigarettes or vaping gear. The deeming regulations will make all vaping gear and products illegal if they did not exist prior to 2007. That's roughly 99+% of everything available in the US on the market today.

This isn't a trivial matter nor one that can easily be avoided through relabeling products. The FDA tried this previously in 2009... they shut down the flow of imported products at customs. It had a direct effect and huge impact on the emerging market then. Through court action this was lifted and this is the next round with even more closed loop-holes and a broader net.