Fountain V2 Bottom Feeder: Squonk your Atty, not your Mod!

[Flaskmaster]

Yeah it is a mystery that you are getting the hot legs like you are. I have contemplated wrapping the wire under the screw head and even sanding the wire where it makes contact to make it cleaner due to your experience. But then I have NO experience yet. Ti has shipped, atty should ship soon.

 

[TheWestPole]

Black 571 Mini glass. Not sure if I like it. Quite dark and hard to see through. Find myself looking down through the chuff to see if it needs a squonk. Kinda defeats the purpose of the glass. It is however a cleaner look than the clear with dark juices. Might try another color next.

 

[meowyy]

Hey friends! Just got my hands on a fountain v2 and using on my vtc mini. But for the past few theres my mod cant seem to detect the fountain v2 however it can detect other atomisers. Am i doing smth wrong?

 

[TheWestPole]

Poor man's frosted glass (sanded), done with Fountain chucked in a drill press: 80 grit, ~1,500 RPM, keeping it wet.

 

[glasseye]

Tim and I have discussed this elsewhere but I thought I'd drop it here too. The colored 571 mini caps are painted, the black for sure. Probably the other colors as well. It's a low fire paint that burns off easily. I used my regular torch and a creme brulee torch. Or you could do like @TheWestPole and put some elbow grease into it. I just like fire. lol Anyway, not something I'd want to put near my lips as the make-up of the paint is unknown and could (but not necessarily does) contain lead, arsenic, ect.

 

[TheWestPole]

Tim and I have discussed this elsewhere but I thought I'd drop it here too. The colored 571 mini caps are painted, the black for sure. Probably the other colors as well. It's a low fire paint that burns off easily. I used my regular torch and a creme brulee torch. Or you could do like @TheWestPole and put some elbow grease into it. I just like fire. lol Anyway, not something I'd want to put near my lips as the make-up of the paint is unknown and could (but not necessarily does) contain lead, arsenic, ect.

Yeah, coated with who knows what. Kinda scary.


On another note, I've got my eye on this glass too. Downsized from the 571 Mini, particularly the tip, and it looks like it will fit. Waiting to get my hands on one to try it.

 

[Tepid]

I bought the last Fountain V2 from Angelcigs. Maybe they will get some more in stock.

This has become my second favorite Atty.

 

[Tepid]

I left this same message in the titanium thread.

Well I just spent an hour building a dual coil for the Skyfall, which is a pump tank below, that feeds the RDA, that sits above it, basically a tank squonker. Annealed the 28 gauge titanium, then made the two coils, slow pulsed them on the mod. Wicked with KGD. Test firing at my normal STM setting of 470f, at 25 watts, with the top cap off I could see red hot legs that are long going into the posts. Just on two, not all four. This is the same issue I had with similar build on the Fountain, which is a similar tank squonker, it uses a squeeze bottle, like a Reo. These red hot legs can and will catch the cotton on fire, as I've seen it, and of course makes for a nasty vape. I spent so much time making this build, I did not want to give up. I had a feeling the normal preheat of 100 watts on my Vaporshark DNA200, may be the cause, as that's when the leads go hot, on first button fire. Went into Escribe, and turned OFF all preheat settings. No more red hot legs! Seems to be working.

I did have to lower my temperature from my normal Ti of 470f, to 400f, and increased my wattage from 25 to 35.

BUILD:
Dual coils, Titanium 28 gauge, 5.5 wraps, 2.5mm ID. Fairly wide coil spread.
According to steam engine total resistance should be .20 ohms. The mod shows .27 ohms. I assume it's the long leads needed to get to the posts.

I'm a pretty novice builder, most of them on simple Subtank Minis, the coils use very short leads, and it's an easy build using mostly 24 gauge Ti, 5-6 wraps. So I have NO idea how folks deal with really long leads that don't sit in the cotton, are mostly out in the open and can get HOT? I've seen photos of builds like mine, so I'm not sure what the difference may be. But certainly turning OFF the preheat settings, has helped. Ideas welcome!

I would not advise using the Fountain V2 or Super Hero, possibly not even the Skyfall with Temp Control
The reason is, I am not sure how accurately TC can detect the overall Atty Resistance.
You will have to make sure that the settings for MOD resistance and Atty Resistance are factored in correctly in Escribe or you will get incorrect TC readings.
But Due to the unstable nature of these Atty's. I am not sure that is possible.

This is where I think a lot of people just do not understand Temp Control. Me included.
It's not a plug and play device/MOD type. Especially when it comes to Ti wire.

The Fountain V2 and I am sure the Super Hero can be a bit finicky (Unstable) if they start getting loose.
I do see the resistance fluctuate a couple of tenths of an ohm. Even with everything tightened down and secure. This is unstable for TC.
I have reduced my vape to 46W on a Dual Coil that fluctuates between .27 and .35ohm on Kanthal.

This could cause the MOD to drop out of TC Mode, which can be very very bad if using Ti wire.
for TC, I would stick with a more solid atty, such as the Velocity or other proven solid Atty's.

This doesn't mean you can't subohm the Fountain V2. But I think it requires a modification to the top cover and better direct airflow to the coil
such as the pictures I posted earlier in this thread and some of what theWestPole has suggested.

 

[Mactavish]

I would not advise using the Fountain V2 or Super Hero, possibly not even the Skyfall with Temp Control
The reason is, I am not sure how accurately TC can detect the overall Atty Resistance.
You will have to make sure that the settings for MOD resistance and Atty Resistance are factored in correctly in Escribe or you will get incorrect TC readings.
But Due to the unstable nature of these Atty's. I am not sure that is possible.

This is where I think a lot of people just do not understand Temp Control. Me included.
It's not a plug and play device/MOD type. Especially when it comes to Ti wire.

The Fountain V2 and I am sure the Super Hero can be a bit finicky (Unstable) if they start getting loose.
I do see the resistance fluctuate a couple of tenths of an ohm. Even with everything tightened down and secure. This is unstable for TC.
I have reduced my vape to 46W on a Dual Coil that fluctuates between .27 and .35ohm on Kanthal.

This could cause the MOD to drop out of TC Mode, which can be very very bad if using Ti wire.
for TC, I would stick with a more solid atty, such as the Velocity or other proven solid Atty's.

This doesn't mean you can't subohm the Fountain V2. But I think it requires a modification to the top cover and better direct airflow to the coil
such as the pictures I posted earlier in this thread and some of what theWestPole has suggested.

Perhaps you are right, as I have put these models aside for now, will try a Kanthal build eventually. Not sure why one would have to do any "factoring" in Escribe if the DNA200 reads the proper ohm resistance. Drifting of ohms is of course something to monitor. I get small ohm swings on many a prebuilt Kanger coil, and when I see it I use the ohm lock feature. Thanks for the Followup.

 

[TheWestPole]

I would not advise using the Fountain V2 or Super Hero, possibly not even the Skyfall with Temp Control
The reason is, I am not sure how accurately TC can detect the overall Atty Resistance.
You will have to make sure that the settings for MOD resistance and Atty Resistance are factored in correctly in Escribe or you will get incorrect TC readings.
But Due to the unstable nature of these Atty's. I am not sure that is possible.

This is where I think a lot of people just do not understand Temp Control. Me included.
It's not a plug and play device/MOD type. Especially when it comes to Ti wire.

The Fountain V2 and I am sure the Super Hero can be a bit finicky (Unstable) if they start getting loose.
I do see the resistance fluctuate a couple of tenths of an ohm. Even with everything tightened down and secure. This is unstable for TC.
I have reduced my vape to 46W on a Dual Coil that fluctuates between .27 and .35ohm on Kanthal.

This could cause the MOD to drop out of TC Mode, which can be very very bad if using Ti wire.
for TC, I would stick with a more solid atty, such as the Velocity or other proven solid Atty's.

This doesn't mean you can't subohm the Fountain V2. But I think it requires a modification to the top cover and better direct airflow to the coil
such as the pictures I posted earlier in this thread and some of what theWestPole has suggested.

Well said, @Tepid. The stock Fountain makes using TC mode a PITA and probably not worth it.

I believe the resistance fluctuation is due to contact variability between the base ground and squonk tube ground, which connect only at the outer ring. Tightening always fixes the problem it for me, but only temporarily. I'm going to make a sleeve for the OD to enhance the contact at that point and see if that solves it permanently. If it does, I may go back to trying TC mode, otherwise forget it. All other modes are working well enough.

 

[Tepid]

Perhaps you are right, as I have put these models aside for now, will try a Kanthal build eventually. Not sure why one would have to do any "factoring" in Escribe if the DNA200 reads the proper ohm resistance. Drifting of ohms is of course something to monitor. I get small ohm swings on many a prebuilt Kanger coil, and when I see it I use the ohm lock feature. Thanks for the Followup.

There is locking the ohms, but I doubt that will prevent the MOD from drifting out of TC Mode.

But, the reason for factoring is, Not many of the MOD Makers are per-configuring their devices for the DNA200
Such as MOD Resistance, Battery Analysis (Not important to TC, but still missing on most MODs), or Case Analysis (the Thermal Constants).
Some MODs don't have the correct Battery settings for Capacity and Cell Soft Cutoff.

And not all Ti Wires, or many other wires have a proper TFR/TCR settings profile. Steam Engine is a guess at best, or setting for one type of wire.
Not all same wire is alike, depending on where it comes from and how it was made. Different alloy ratios can come into play on the TCR/TFR.
But, it doesn't have to be precise. It does have to be close as possible to be reliably accurate for TC.

All of these come into play with TC. Especially on the DNA200 more than any other MOD.
There is a lot more to it than slapping a coil in any old atty and going to town on TC. Again, Especially on the DNA200.

Some MODs are per-programmed, but even they have their limitations due to not being able to be configured like the DNA200.

NOTE: ohm lock doesn't work on Kanthal. it won't stick. You can try, but it's not actually locking the ohms on Kanthal. And Kanthal dosen't really care. IT heats till it reaches max Temp based on Volts/Wattage v. OHM. It won't stay at what you lock it at like TC will.

Let's also clear up some things. TC works based on what the MOD thinks the temp is supposed to be at, at a given OHM reading. This is why the TFR/TCR is so important.
Your profile says that the TCR is supposed to be 350* at .20ohm (this is just an example)
But if the real TCR of the wire is not 350* at .20 ohm, and it's 450* at .20ohm, then you have a problem. And if the MOD resistance and Atty Resistance are not correct. Then the problem just compounds on itself, and you have inaccurate TC. Bad Vapes.

 

[Mactavish]

There is locking the ohms, but I doubt that will prevent the MOD from drifting out of TC Mode.

But, the reason for factoring is, Not many of the MOD Makers are per-configuring their devices for the DNA200
Such as MOD Resistance, Battery Analysis (Not important to TC, but still missing on most MODs), or Case Analysis (the Thermal Constants).
Some MODs don't have the correct Battery settings for Capacity and Cell Soft Cutoff.

And not all Ti Wires, or many other wires have a proper TFR/TCR settings profile. Steam Engine is a guess at best, or setting for one type of wire.
Not all same wire is alike, depending on where it comes from and how it was made. Different alloy ratios can come into play on the TCR/TFR.
But, it doesn't have to be precise. It does have to be close as possible to be reliably accurate for TC.

All of these come into play with TC. Especially on the DNA200 more than any other MOD.
There is a lot more to it than slapping a coil in any old atty and going to town on TC. Again, Especially on the DNA200.

Some MODs are per-programmed, but even they have their limitations due to not being able to be configured like the DNA200.

NOTE: ohm lock doesn't work on Kanthal. it won't stick. You can try, but it's not actually locking the ohms on Kanthal. And Kanthal dosen't really care. IT heats till it reaches max Temp based on Volts/Wattage v. OHM. It won't stay at what you lock it at like TC will.

Let's also clear up some things. TC works based on what the MOD thinks the temp is supposed to be at, at a given OHM reading. This is why the TFR/TCR is so important.
Your profile says that the TCR is supposed to be 350* at .20ohm (this is just an example)
But if the real TCR of the wire is not 350* at .20 ohm, and it's 450* at .20ohm, then you have a problem. And if the MOD resistance and Atty Resistance are not correct. Then the problem just compounds on itself, and you have inaccurate TC. Bad Vapes.

Thanks, I'm quite familiar with all that you wrote. My Vaporshark DNA200 is accurately pre-configured by VS, unlike some mods like my previous Lavabox.

What I meant was, there is no "factoring" within Escribe for your attie resistance, just an atomizer check that shows potential resistance via ohms readout as you screw attie on and off, or drifting. While useful, the ohms readout on the mod while static or when vaping is what it is, I normally don't lock the ohms on my own builds, as they are steady and I let the DNA200 refine the ohms at the temperature the device is in use in. Pre-made coils due to their construction with the wire leads captured in the rubber grommets often drift too much and this is when the ohms locking feature comes in handy.

 

[Tepid]

You can offset the Atty resistance as part of the MOD resistance.
such as, my Velocity static OHM is 0.013. This is the resistance of the 510 pin and the deck overall
See this thread which helped me learn a lot. And specifically this post.
Regardless if VS per-configured the MOD, I would double check it anyway.

I still need to run Battery Analyzer, but I think it takes a really long time.
Lavabox provided a Battery Profile, but there could be differences between individual units
This is why I would run all the tests regardless of what any MOD maker has provided.

The only thing I would rely on is TCR files from vendors. If they provide them.
And only if they are regularly updated. Batches can potentially change through manufacturing differences, etc. TCR files are important. Just as Thermal and MOD Resistance is in TC.
Not all devices should be relied on to be the same.

Look at the Lavabox Case Analyzer thread at the DNA200 forums and you will see they are not really even close. This is not limited to the Lavabox, but all TC MODs are affected the same way. It is the nature of TC in general the way it is designed to work today.

It all depends on where you are at. How cold your MOD is when you start etc.
Going outside in 20* weather will have an effect on TC.

 

[Mactavish]

You can offset the Atty resistance as part of the MOD resistance.
such as, my Velocity static OHM is 0.013. This is the resistance of the 510 pin and the deck overall
See this thread which helped me learn a lot. And specifically this post.
Regardless if VS per-configured the MOD, I would double check it anyway.

I still need to run Battery Analyzer, but I think it takes a really long time.
Lavabox provided a Battery Profile, but there could be differences between individual units
This is why I would run all the tests regardless of what any MOD maker has provided.

The only thing I would rely on is TCR files from vendors. If they provide them.
And only if they are regularly updated. Batches can potentially change through manufacturing differences, etc. TCR files are important. Just as Thermal and MOD Resistance is in TC.
Not all devices should be relied on to be the same.

Look at the Lavabox Case Analyzer thread at the DNA200 forums and you will see they are not really even close. This is not limited to the Lavabox, but all TC MODs are affected the same way. It is the nature of TC in general the way it is designed to work today.

It all depends on where you are at. How cold your MOD is when you start etc.
Going outside in 20* weather will have an effect on TC.

I know, I started the LavaBox thread you linked.

 

[Tepid]

heh, didn't realize that.

 

[Mactavish]

heh, didn't realize that.

Anyone that owns a DNA200 should consider getting one of these for a proper MOD RESISTANCE TEST:

510 99.9 pure copper Mod resistance tools - DNA 200 Early Adopters Forum

 

[Tepid]

Anyone that owns a DNA200 should consider getting one of these for a proper MOD RESISTANCE TEST:

510 99.9 pure copper Mod resistance tools - DNA 200 Early Adopters Forum

Thanks, I pm'd for a couple.

 

[TheWestPole]

I can say this about the black and white versions with the wider seal on the top cap: the top cap is now very secure with the glass. Takes real effort to remove it.

 

[TheWestPole]

Just realized I had an Aris RDA cap laying around. It fits and takes standard 510 drip tips. Material is acrylic though, so we'll have to see how it holds up to tank cracking juices.

https://www.fasttech.com/products/3023/10011879/2033501
https://www.fasttech.com/products/3023/10011879/2038401

 

[VAPING_IRISHGUY]

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So how much do I love the Fountain V2 & being a converted Bottom Feeder now? This much!

what is the mod on the left?