GG Tilemahos V2 and Penelope V4 mini official thread

[imeothanasis]

TCR is a factor much less important than the resistance that a wire has Grize. I have explained before the issue with nickel or any other wire that doesnt have resistance but the more times I say it, the better, so I am glad you asked

I will tell you an example, so we can all understand better the issue. Imagine a setup at 0,05 ohms. If we screw-unscrew atomizer on mod, if we screw unscrew the cap to reload battery, if we unscrew2 any part of the mod at any time, the resistyance changes. The changes are small but they are big if you vape on a 0,05 wire. The whole resistance can be doubled very easy. Now, imagine what will happen if you touch any thread with your oily fingers and then screw again this part on the mod.

So, if resistance doubled or even if raised by 20-30-40 %, the result is very poor vapor.

Better dont vape any wire out there. Metals need a lot of years to be tested, so stay on the safe side and vape Ti or SS. You dont want to hear any bad news after 5 years for the wire you use. And there is absolutely no reason to vape any any wire out there. The solutions are already here. Ti and SS are biocompatible materials and they are the only ones that can be used on e-cigs. The rest of metals are NOT safe

 

[Ariel_MX]

I do not own a DNA200 device (yet), we (me and IcyX) did some internal resistance tests with the Tilemahos, using a SX Mini M Class.

We started the tests as IcyX was not getting steady resistance readings (inconsistent resistance readings: 0.026, 0.043, 0.023, 0.021 ohms), while I was getting a 0.014 ohms constant reading.

We did the tests using 30AWG silver wire, connecting both terminal posts.

The only difference between our tests was that I was using a Tilemahos v1 (AFC base) with a solid brass positive pin, while he was using a Tilemahos v2 (stainless steel positive pin and extension pin).

In this case, the problem was that the positive post extension was not enough tightened.

The home made experiments:

Mine:

IcyX's:

-IcyX:

Hey Ariel,
I figured it out.

-Me:

What was it?

-IcyX:

I didn't have the screw in the bottom tight. I thought it would be best to leave it out a little to make good contact but when I screwed it tight I now have steady low internal resistance.

 

[Pega]

nickel is perfectly fine for temp control, as long as you don't have 15 connections between the powering electronics and the wire...

not sure how safe titanium really is...

Google

i'm definitely not comfortable vaping it until you guys do for 5+ years

 

[grizewald]

Imeo, I'll agree with you that the very low resistance of nickel is indeed a problem. Measuring a change that's a percentage of a very small starting value, even if that percentage is quite large, is going to be quite hard compared to measuring a change in a larger resistance. I don't believe that trying to measure a very, very small change in a larger starting value - the case with SS wire - is much different when it comes to accuracy though. SS wire will give you a larger starting value and make the overall configuration more immune to variations in resistance caused by varying connection resistance, but overall accuracy is worse due to the limits in the resolution of the resistance measuring bridge.

As I said, NiFe30 would appear to be the ideal compromise as you can achieve a much larger starting resistance with a sensible amount of wire and the TCR is only about 50% less than nickel.

Vaping is something that we choose to do instead of smoking. Anyone who isn't completely stupid would never claim that it is completely without risk. However, your assertions about the relative safety of certain metals are made without the backing of any scientific testing and are merely assertions.

The fact that people haven't been dropping dead after years of vaping with nichrome wire is a fairly obvious example of the fact that you're making unfounded statements in this regard.

Anyway, I didn't come here to argue about your beliefs, I just want my Tilemahos to work consistently with temperature control. I've vaped my last tank dry and I'll be stripping the atty down, ultrasonically cleaning it, making sure every contact is tight and putting a new coil in there. I'll report back on my experience.

 

[imeothanasis]

"The fact that people haven't been dropping dead after years of vaping with nichrome wire is a fairly obvious example of the fact that you're making unfounded statements in this regard"
Grize my friend, results of bad habbits dont come in 5 years but in 20-30 years as you may know. Think of analogs. You vape for 30 years and you are almost ok when suddenly something happens. Also, be sure that people that vape any metal out there make unfounded statements when I do the opposite. I provide evidence when others provide simply nothing. You dont follow GG threads constantly so you havent read the simple serious facts that I have provide though time. Its your choice of course to use any metal out there. But better dont use these metals for cooking or drinking if you know what I mean

NiFe30 is an unknown metal and not biocompatible for sure. If you simply think why we use specific metals for our everyday use, you will understand what is going on.

Now, about temp coefficient of Nickel and SS. Let me give you an example to saw you how much a small change on a small resistance affects vaping and how much a small temp coefficient of a metal affects vaping. Also, I will saw you that the big temp coefficient of Nickel is a disadvantage and not an advantage as you think.

1. Nickel or any NR wire: +-0,05 difference on resistance because you simply screwed the cap of the battery doubles the resistance (+100%). Now, if SS has to go up to +25% to vape at 280 Celsius degrees, the Nickel has to go +166% because of its great temp coefficient? If yes, the greater the temp coefficient, the greater the mistake on Celsius degrees. Instead of vaping at 280 Celsius degrees, you may vape at 140 or at 560 Celsius degrees. So the result is no vapor or burned taste.

2. SS has 6 times less temp coefficient than Nickel?: If yes, +-0,05 difference on resistance because you simply screwed the cap of the battery means a difference on a resistance of 1 ohm +-1%. But what means 1% difference on resistance for temp? Its +-50 Celsius degrees, so you will vape at 230 or at 330.

Huge difference as you see.

 

[mrZoSo]

Ti forms a passive and protective oxide coating just being exposed to room temp air, and actually becomes stronger when heated. And it takes extreme temps to even start breaking that down. The concern is with TiO2(titanium dioxide), which starts forming at high temps(600°C), temperatures we'll never use when vaping. Even so, you just don't just get Ti02 from Ti wire by vaping. Getting Ti02 requires chemical and heat processing to get extracted from ore form. Something vapors won't even come close to.

 

[Pega]

are you sure that _no_ eliquid will break it down? i'm not...

we don't exceed 600 c during vaping, but it's easy to go over that when dry burning your coil or if you use mesh and setting it up and get a hotspot

as imeo said above, can't prove any negative on titanium same as any other metal but i take issue with it being declared that a is safer than b...

we can stick to what is best and there is just simply more data for nichrome and kanthal. as i stated above, if you want to be a guinea pig, be my guest...i'm saying this knowing full-well that titanium could turn out to be 100x safer than kanthal...to each their own i guess?

 

[mrZoSo]

Unless your liquid is made with chlorine and burned with Coke(high carbon fuel) or made with sulfuric acid(these are parts of the two main processes used to extract TiO2), you won't have anything to worry about.
I don't dry burn or use mesh, so no worries there for me either. Plus Ti melting point is 1,677°C (3,051°F). Even if you somehow got it to that temp while vaping, you still won't get TiO2 from it, it needs to be processed to extract it.

Titanium is the metal of choice for implants in humans due to it's biocompatibility.
Believe it or not, most of us already intake TiO2 as it is used as colorants in food such as candies, cookies, sweets, coffee whitener, toothpaste, etc. It's also used in pharmaceuticals.

Yes, I agree, 'to each their own'. And I'll take my chances with Ti wire Even though I'm using SS now with the springomizer!! lol

 

[imeothanasis]

We dont trust our father but our friend that we met yesterday Mrzozo. Somerthing like this is happening to vaping. We dont trust the science but some people that introduce anything around lol

This industry has a lot of fun

 

[grizewald]

If the world's governments have their way, vaping as we know it won't exist this time next year!

The 'which metal is the safest' debate really doesn't interest me. It's all speculation anyway without proper research and I don't see any company yet that has achieved a medical approval on any vaping device.

I'm in my 50s, I've already had my first encounter with cancer and I smoked for over 30 years before I found vaping. Regardless of which wire I use, it won't be that which kills me in the end!

As to my Tilemahos, which is, after all, what this thread is all about, I'm waiting on some more wire before I can rebuild in TC mode, but I will return to document my experiences.

 

[imeothanasis]

griz, results of safe to use metals are not speculations buddy. Its scientific results of years of research

 

[grizewald]

griz, results of safe to use metals are not speculations buddy. Its scientific results of years of research

I wasn't going to continue this, but...

I've seen what you've said over the years about titanium being safe because it's used in medical implants and that stainless steel is safe because we use it to cook with.

These statements, while perfectly true in the context of the those applications, have absolutely nothing to do with a material's safety when used as the vapourising element in an atomiser.

The only way you can state that a particular element or alloy is completely safe for vaping is if genuine scientific testing has been conducted on that material when used as a coil. To my knowledge, no such research has been performed.

I understand that you are basing your opinions on what you believe to be common sense, but the fact is that while you might be one of the oldest and most iconic designers in the vaping industry, you're not a medical researcher and your opinions are just that - opinions.

You do yourself a disservice when you make these statements. If you said "stainless steel wire might be safer than nichrome", you would not be making an assertion that is purely based on assumptions that are outside your expertise. Saying categorically that you know these materials are safer lacks any foundation and in the fullness of time may be something that you are proved to be incorrect about.

As I said, I really don't care about the unknown relative safety of various metals and alloys when used as coils. I'll be long dead before the possible negative effects of any of them show up. You, as a respected pioneer in the vaping industry, have a duty not to mislead people and I wish you'd phrase your advice with more humility.

 

[imeothanasis]

griz, the only I do is to serve you by protecting you and the rest of the vapers. Protecting you from bad habits like vaping oxidized metals like mesh, burned wires and vaping nickel or any other wire in high temps without second thought.
You dont believe me because I am only a mechanical engineer? Ok, go to your doctor and tell him that you inhale oxidised metals and rust in general.

I dont think that I will convince you and thats not my purpose. My purpose and my hope is that people that read GG threads will be wise enough to follow common sense. What common sense says? It says that fumes of SS or titanium that are produced while cooking and inhaled from humans are safe. No one recommends nickel-kanthal-nichrome or NiFe pans. They are also pointed as dangerous.

Anyway, please inform me about your results with Tilemahos. I am sure they will be splendid!

 

[imeothanasis]

Simple and elegant

Setup Tip Tilemahos V2plus Rebuildable

 

[woita]

In for a vacation to Vegas and LA (departing in Munich) starting tomorrow. Lots of pressure and temperature changes, will let you know if my resistances drift even though my center pin is screwed in all the way.

so, as promised:
Back after 10 days of traveling including 5 flights (MUC-ATL-LAS-MSP-AMS-MUC) and drives from Las Vegas through the Nevada and California mountains and to LA (so lots of pressure and temperature changes) I hapily report that both my Tiles (V2+) had no issues at all
One's at .15 Ohm on an Evic VTC Mini and one at .22 Ohms on an Ego One VT.

No maintenance needed, didn't even take them off the mods once, just threw in the juice and go
TC worked like a charm, no taste fluctuations, Evic read constantly at .15 without any deviations.

Imeo, Tile V2+ is perfect to me (Will look into springomizer as soon as Titan springs are available)

Went to Pink Spot Vegas btw - nice folks, bought some juices on Black Friday

PS: Of course, I did close the liquid control all the way during take-off and descent. On cruising altitude no issues (with stealth vaping as well )

 

[imeothanasis]

fantastic news woita!! Happy vapinggg buddy

 

[grizewald]

So, I'm also back to report on my experience with the Tilemahos.

I completely stripped the atty, manually degreased all the parts with detergent, water and a fine toothbrush, ran it through the ultrasonic cleaner and finally give all the parts a wipe with a cloth soaked in isopropyl alcohol and let them air dry. I did see several things. The threads were not particularly clean, especially on the housing and base. I even found a big lump of polishing compound still left in one of the air slots in the base! When I've bought GG stuff before, it's always been perfectly clean and it's my mistake to trust that things would always be that way. It was very easy to remove the posts from the post assembly. They obviously had not been fully tightened when the atomiser was originally assembled.

Once I'd properly cleaned the atomiser, I re-assembled it and used pliers to tighten the posts and the centre pin extension. I also screwed the adjustable centre pin on tightly with pliers. The amount of force that I used with the pliers was just a little more than I was comfortable with, so I really hope I don't ever have to completely strip the atomiser down again. I shouldn't have to remove the posts at least and I'm certain that these connections are now pretty much gas tight.

I made a spaced NiFe30 coil around a 3mm form with five wraps to give me a room temperature resistance of 0.33 ohms. I used KGD cotton as my wick.

I'm happy to report that after four whole tanks of juice and the mod being taken to work and out and about that the resistance has been completely stable. I've been enjoying a very reliable and satisfying vape - exactly what I was looking for in the first place!

So, in summary, if you want your Tilemahos to work reliably with temperature control you need to strip it, clean it properly and reassemble it very tightly before using it. You can't use the adjustable centre pin if you are going to use temperature control either, it must be screwed in all the way and tightened with pliers.

 

[grizewald]

griz, the only I do is to serve you by protecting you and the rest of the vapers. Protecting you from bad habits like vaping oxidized metals like mesh, burned wires and vaping nickel or any other wire in high temps without second thought.

I promise not to mention my extensive collection of genisis atomisers and hybrids then.

 

[Aal_]

So, I'm also back to report on my experience with the Tilemahos.

I completely stripped the atty, manually degreased all the parts with detergent, water and a fine toothbrush, ran it through the ultrasonic cleaner and finally give all the parts a wipe with a cloth soaked in isopropyl alcohol and let them air dry. I did see several things. The threads were not particularly clean, especially on the housing and base. I even found a big lump of polishing compound still left in one of the air slots in the base! When I've bought GG stuff before, it's always been perfectly clean and it's my mistake to trust that things would always be that way. It was very easy to remove the posts from the post assembly. They obviously had not been fully tightened when the atomiser was originally assembled.

Once I'd properly cleaned the atomiser, I re-assembled it and used pliers to tighten the posts and the centre pin extension. I also screwed the adjustable centre pin on tightly with pliers. The amount of force that I used with the pliers was just a little more than I was comfortable with, so I really hope I don't ever have to completely strip the atomiser down again. I shouldn't have to remove the posts at least and I'm certain that these connections are now pretty much gas tight.

I made a spaced NiFe30 coil around a 3mm form with five wraps to give me a room temperature resistance of 0.33 ohms. I used KGD cotton as my wick.

I'm happy to report that after four whole tanks of juice and the mod being taken to work and out and about that the resistance has been completely stable. I've been enjoying a very reliable and satisfying vape - exactly what I was looking for in the first place!

So, in summary, if you want your Tilemahos to work reliably with temperature control you need to strip it, clean it properly and reassemble it very tightly before using it. You can't use the adjustable centre pin if you are going to use temperature control either, it must be screwed in all the way and tightened with pliers.

Good to know. I've been using tilemahos V2 and penny v4 in temp mode with no issues as I said before. Yes I do tighten the center post extension with pliers, but I'm pretty sure there is no need to tighten the adjustable pin with pliers as well. And yes I don't use it as adjustable I just tighten it fully by hand.

 

[imeothanasis]

So, I'm also back to report on my experience with the Tilemahos.

I completely stripped the atty, manually degreased all the parts with detergent, water and a fine toothbrush, ran it through the ultrasonic cleaner and finally give all the parts a wipe with a cloth soaked in isopropyl alcohol and let them air dry. I did see several things. The threads were not particularly clean, especially on the housing and base. I even found a big lump of polishing compound still left in one of the air slots in the base! When I've bought GG stuff before, it's always been perfectly clean and it's my mistake to trust that things would always be that way. It was very easy to remove the posts from the post assembly. They obviously had not been fully tightened when the atomiser was originally assembled.

Once I'd properly cleaned the atomiser, I re-assembled it and used pliers to tighten the posts and the centre pin extension. I also screwed the adjustable centre pin on tightly with pliers. The amount of force that I used with the pliers was just a little more than I was comfortable with, so I really hope I don't ever have to completely strip the atomiser down again. I shouldn't have to remove the posts at least and I'm certain that these connections are now pretty much gas tight.

I made a spaced NiFe30 coil around a 3mm form with five wraps to give me a room temperature resistance of 0.33 ohms. I used KGD cotton as my wick.

I'm happy to report that after four whole tanks of juice and the mod being taken to work and out and about that the resistance has been completely stable. I've been enjoying a very reliable and satisfying vape - exactly what I was looking for in the first place!

So, in summary, if you want your Tilemahos to work reliably with temperature control you need to strip it, clean it properly and reassemble it very tightly before using it. You can't use the adjustable centre pin if you are going to use temperature control either, it must be screwed in all the way and tightened with pliers.

wonderful news griz, well done!
The only thing you havent to do is to tight AD pin with pliers. Hand tight is more than enough.

As for the cleaning, you did very well. I always suggest to my customers to clean everything they buy from anyone and from me too. Dirt is everywhere, especially on hands that assemble the units. You just never know......