FDA Lawsuits more concerning

[Jman8]

I think you are Too Obsessed with ANTZ.

If there was No Wrong Doing, it will be Shown. And if there was Wrong Doing, then a Company Should be Held Accountable.

I'm beginning to think that your Idea of a "Free Market" is where Companies are "Free" to do whatever they like. And should Not have to Answer to Allegations of Wrong Doing.

And I think your rhetoric is ANTZ friendly.

Show me a magical company that you know of that has never engaged in wrong doing by what it's adversaries consider wrong. It is clearly a mistake for vaping companies to operate or do business in CA. But as that is unlikely to change, then I just assume back these companies unless there is very clear indication of significant wrong doing. Show me the case where you see that.

 

[zoiDman]

...

it the courts, misinformation can be challenged and rebutted.

This is a what I think some here Do Not Understand.

 

[Jman8]

Then why don't you Explain what is Going On.

Already explained it in OP.

I love how you can't stick to the points and have to make it about the person you are in discussion with.

 

[zoiDman]

And I think you are ANTZ friendly.

Show me a magical company that you know of that has never engaged in wrong doing by what it's adversaries consider wrong. It is clearly a mistake for vaping companies to operate or do business in CA. But as that is unlikely to change, then I just assume back these companies unless there is very clear indication of significant wrong doing. Show me the case where you see that.

Big Deal.

You think Everyone who Doesn't agree with your Views is an ANTZ.

I couldn't even count the Number of people you have Called an ANTZ. It would probably be Easier to just count the People you Haven't.

 

[zoiDman]

Already explained it in OP.

I love how you can't stick to the points and have to make it about the person you are in discussion with.

Explained What?

That ANTZ are behind everything. We've all heard that Song before.

ETA - I noticed that you Glazed over this Point...

"Because surely you are Not In Favor of denying an Individual the Fundamental Right to Seek a Remedy thru the Court System.

Or maybe you are?"

 

[Jman8]

Big Deal.

You think Everyone who Doesn't agree with your Views is an ANTZ.

I couldn't even count the Number of people you have Called an ANTZ. It would probably be Easier to just count the People you Haven't.

You're actually the first I made that insinuation about, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. You deflect all the time on this whenever it comes up. I edited that post, cause I don't think you actually are, but do think some of your rhetoric is. I'm not the first person to think this either. Actually didn't occur to me until someone else brought it to my attention.

 

[zoiDman]

You're actually the first I made that insinuation about, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. You deflect all the time on this whenever it comes up. I edited that post, cause I don't think you actually are, but do think some of your rhetoric is. I'm not the first person to think this either. Actually didn't occur to me until someone else brought it to my attention.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Members are Free to do a Search of "Jman8* and "ANTZ" and judge for themselves.

BTW -

"Because surely you are Not In Favor of denying an Individual the Fundamental Right to Seek a Remedy thru the Court System.

Or maybe you are?"

 

[Jman8]

ETA - I noticed that you Glazed over this Point...

"Because surely you are Not In Favor of denying an Individual the Fundamental Right to Seek a Remedy thru the Court System.

Or maybe you are?"

You glaze over all my points. I address yours, and you respond to mine with questions. Perhaps I should sue you for wrong doing. LOL.

I do not favor denying that right, but do enjoy pointing out suits that are frivolous, ought not to be supported by critically thinking vaping enthusiasts, and dealing squarely with items that are very likely ANTZ driven.

And I do find the trend in these suits to be ANTZ driven, and orchestrated to align with timing from FDA regulations, due out very soon (as I think we all know). I think it behooves concerned vapers who would answer to CTA's or support vaping vendors in a fight against regulations to speak out against plaintiff's concerns in these suits, which are essentially setting all vaping vendors to possibly be nailed on false advertising. Given the suits at hand, I can't think of a vendor that would be able to fully overcome the language of the suits (at least in CA).

And if I agreed, even a little bit, with ANTZ on this, I'd start with the biggest/most prominent vendors and send the message that way. Right now, who cares what the medium to small sized vendors are up to, ANTZ knows they'll be decimated by zealous regulations.

 

[Jman8]

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

Members are Free to do a Search of "Jman8* and "ANTZ" and judge for themselves.

Please, anyone reading this, do this. I encourage it. And please, if you find any posts where I called another member ANTZ, bring it to my attention in PM or publicly if you prefer. @zoiDman continues to make a baseless charge, and I'd like to see it backed up. He said he couldn't count the amount of times I've done it, so it will be interesting to me what that number is (I say it's zero, or one since I did just call Z Antz friendly), but if anyone cares to show otherwise, I'm game.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I do not favor denying that right, ...

Well then I guess that makes you an ANTZ Jman8.

Because I that is what I believe Also.

 

[skoony]

Do you think ANTZ had anything to do with original MSA? If yes, how would you back that up?

No. The MSA came about after Minnesota showed the way in how to change
the law and make it impossible for BT to offer any kind of defense. After
we got our own MSA the hearts and minds of the other states and BT soon
followed.
Regards
Mike

 

[Jman8]

No. The MSA came about after Minnesota showed the way in how to change
the law and make it impossible for BT to offer any kind of defense. After
we got our own MSA the hearts and minds of the other states and BT soon
followed.
Regards
Mike

Could you provide a link on this? I'd like to see what / who in MN did what you are saying.

 

[retired1]

Knock it off.

 

[AndriaD]

Please, anyone reading this, do this. I encourage it. And please, if you find any posts where I called another member ANTZ, bring it to my attention in PM or publicly if you prefer. @zoiDman continues to make a baseless charge, and I'd like to see it backed up. He said he couldn't count the amount of times I've done it, so it will be interesting to me what that number is (I say it's zero, or one since I did just call Z Antz friendly), but if anyone cares to show otherwise, I'm game.

I thought zoid was an ANTZ troll for probably the first 6 months I was here. But over time I changed my opinion; now I just think he's a pessimist who likes to rain on the vaping parade -- but he's in good company on that around here, with everyone saying that vaping is about to be abolished or banned or some such garbage. It will never be abolished as long as there is anyone with a rebuildable atty, nic in the freezer, and the gumption to make their own ejuice. I haven't bought any ejuice for probably 6 months, so if it's "effectively banned", it's no skin off my nose. I haven't bought blisterpak coils in way over a year, so if they go the way of the dinosaur, I don't care.

Yes it's very sad for those who still smoke, but I do not think that any "effective ban" will stand for too long, before it's challenged in the courts and eventually overturned. It's overreach pure and simple, and I think the courts will remedy that. If in fact the office in the white house doesn't do it first.

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

I thought zoid was an ANTZ troll for probably the first 6 months I was here. But over time I changed my opinion; now I just think he's a pessimist who likes to rain on the vaping parade ...

Yeah... Believing that people should be able to File a Lawsuit is Definitely a Rain on the Parade Move.

LOL

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Reasonable people just get squeezed in between the radicals from both sides.
Logic and reason is a losing proposition in today's society in the good ol US of A.
Why this is my first and last post in this thread.

 

[Jman8]

I haven't bought any ejuice for probably 6 months, so if it's "effectively banned", it's no skin off my nose. I haven't bought blisterpak coils in way over a year, so if they go the way of the dinosaur, I don't care.

I don't get this attitude, but acknowledge it. Like I don't use a mod type device, but I'd care a whole heckuvlot if those were excluded. I'd engage in CTA's regarding it.

I get the feeling at times that the crowd that has moved to unflavored doesn't care if flavored juices are regulated out of legal existence. The mature side of me wishes to see fellow vapers get together and resist that together, regardless of own personal choices. The immature side of me, if that were to happen, would be begging FDA to go after unflavored, out of spite, because well you all didn't care, and hope you enjoy underground market as well.

Yes it's very sad for those who still smoke, but I do not think that any "effective ban" will stand for too long, before it's challenged in the courts and eventually overturned. It's overreach pure and simple, and I think the courts will remedy that. If in fact the office in the white house doesn't do it first.

Andria

If it's lawsuits from our side, I can see why people would favor the court system. But lawsuits against our side, and it really is just a way to thin the market out. That and establish for everyone into vaping or thinking about getting into vaping that ANTZ was right, vaping is inherently dangerous and just the fact that lawsuit was brought ought to be enough 'proof' for anyone paying attention. If they win, then who's going to dispute it? It'd be like thinking they lied to people about smoking propaganda. I mean who really believes that, when the status quo has clearly determined that smoking kills and BT is 100% to blame for all things bad that ever happen to smokers.

Soon to be similar meme transferred to vapers/vaping.

 

[skoony]

Could you provide a link on this? I'd like to see what / who in MN did what you are saying.

No. There is no link needed. It's what happened.
Minnesota changed the law to specifically disallow any reference that cigarette smokers
knew smoking was bad. Ergo, BT had no defence.
This law was changed when it appeared BT was going to win yet another consumer
lawsuit.
Even the Antz in this state were dumbfounded as almost 80% of the state realized it
was nothing more than a money grab by the state that forever excluded anyone harmed
from smoking (if in fact smoking was harmful) from ever seeing penny one forever.
No one in Minnesota that has had a so-called smoking illness hasn't received one
thin dime. Period. nor will they ever will.

Regards
Mike

 

[NoFumus]

No one in Minnesota that has had a so-called smoking illness hasn't received one thin dime. Period. nor will they ever will.

I did receive, as part of that settlement, MN state govt.-issued, FDA-approved smoking treatment in the form of free patches. I think they were distributed through meetings at the AM Lung Association. I loved what the doctor who distributed them told us. "I"m supposed to tell you that you shouldn't smoke while using the patch, but if it were really that dangerous, most people who used them would get sick, since most people feel the need to smoke at the same time."

I guess they gave out what they considered move valuable than money.

 

[Jman8]

Well, if you have no link, then I'm going to stand by idea that it was ANTZ driven. Given what you've said, it strongly reads as such.

ETA: I found link on it: Minnesota Litigation

Now, I have no doubts that it was ANTZ driven.