VTC5 vs 25R and other thoughts

[Savvas123]

Hello guys.

First off, let me give you some background info. I currently own an IPV3(not LI), with a subtank and 2 Samsungs 25r's (Blues) and I am vaping on 0.5ohms. My batteries are getting very old and underperforming and it is time to change them(Good opportunity to upgrade everything! ). Main contestants are VTC5s, 25Rs and Efest(the purple ones that offer 30A draw).

My local ecig shop which happens to be the biggest chain in the country where I live in, just brought the VTC5's and they say they are 100% genuine. Anyways, I have been doing some research and apparently the VTCs are IMR chemistry whereas the 25R's are INR. From what I read, INR are generally considered safer. My first question would be, which one would be preferred for vaping on a 0.5 and lower level?

I also plan to get a Uwell Crown which if im not mistaken includes 0.15 ohm coils. I am also planning on getting the IPV 4s (Or the Sigelei 150, havent decided on that yet would appreciate your thoughts), but they both support series(not parallel) battery placement. I might be dumb or just not good enough to do the math, but I think that the 25R's on a 20A draw cannot handle that(0.15ohm) on a series mod. Would the VTC's handle it?

So yea, I really just wanna be on the very safe side of it so please do offer your valuable insights. Fell free to also comment on the the Mods, batteries, and the Uwell Crown or anything else you feel would be good for me to know.

Thanks

 

[sonicbomb]

The Samsung 25R is a great 20amp CDR battery, avoid the purple one like the plague, the VTC5 is a good cell but there are better on the market, like the LG HG2. Both IMR and INR chemistrys are equally safe.

A series configuration doubles the voltage but the mAh and amp limit stays the same.
A parallel configuration doubles the available amps and the mAh, but the voltage stays the same.

The coil resistance is of no consequence to the amp draw on the battery in a regulated mod, though most have a minimum and maximum value to protect the internal components. The Sigelei 150 for instance has a minimum resistance that you can use of 0.15 ohms.
To find the amp draw, divide the wattage by the voltage in the battery, fully charged this is 4.2v. As voltage in the battery falls the amp draw will increase so you need to find this value too, on most mods the cutoff is about 3.4v. Just make sure that neither of these values is higher than the CDR of the battery.
With multi battery devices, simply calculate the amp draw then divide by the number of batteries.

You don't need to do any maths if you don't want to, just plug the numbers into
Battery drain, look at the dark blue 'battery drain' section.

 

[Susan~S]

The Crown 0.15Ω coil is a nickel coil (not Kanthal). Can only be used on a mod that offers "temperature control".

 

[Savvas123]

Thanks for the replies. Both of the mods im considering support temperature control.

So, theoretically, given Sonicbombs math, I can easily go down to 0.25ohms with the 25Rs and the VTC's, on the IPV4s or the sigelei 150tc.

Which one do you think is better, and about the batteries, many people go crazy about the vtc5's, why would you say that they are just decent?

Thanks

 

[sonicbomb]

Unless you are using TC, try to get the idea of low resistance coils out of your head. With a mechanical device it is important, with a regulated device it is not.

The VTC5 was unavailable for a while and became a mythical beast of wonder for some people. Both the 25R and the HG2 out perform it.

We have the great privilege of having a resident battery tester, spend some time reading his blog
Mooch

Scroll to the bottom of this page for his list of tested cells
18650 Safety Grades -- Picking a Safe Battery to Vape With | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Savvas123]

Thanks a lot. I will take a look. I will probably be going with the IPV4s and 2 new 25Rs, along with the uwell crown, and i will let the mod chip do its job

 

[Mooch]

Both the VTC and the 25R are INR, "hybrid", chemistry batteries. While not quite as safe as true IMR batteries they are quite safe for us vapers.

A bit of backgrond info...

Li-Ion Battery Chemistries - What are the differences in their safety? | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Savvas123]

Great post, Mooch. Thanks for that. Anybody got some suggestions on which mod is better?

Also, just so I get it right, with a regulated mod like the ones I am considering to buy, the chip will determine whether its safe to fire? If yes, and assuming the chip will not fail, I should not be worried about ohms and wattage.

 

[sonicbomb]

Also, just so I get it right, with a regulated mod like the ones I am considering to buy, the chip will determine whether its safe to fire? If yes, and assuming the chip will not fail, I should not be worried about ohms and wattage.

The coil resistance is of no consequence to the amp draw on the battery in a regulated mod, though most have a minimum and maximum value to protect the internal components. The Sigelei 150 for instance has a minimum resistance that you can use of 0.15 ohms.
To find the amp draw, divide the wattage by the voltage in the battery, fully charged this is 4.2v. As voltage in the battery falls the amp draw will increase so you need to find this value too, on most mods the cutoff is about 3.4v. Just make sure that neither of these values is higher than the CDR of the battery.

 

[Mooch]

Great post, Mooch. Thanks for that. Anybody got some suggestions on which mod is better?

Also, just so I get it right, with a regulated mod like the ones I am considering to buy, the chip will determine whether its safe to fire? If yes, and assuming the chip will not fail, I should not be worried about ohms and wattage.

The regulator will protect itself, not the battery. It has no idea what type of battery you are using.
While a battery being stressed too hard might drop in voltage to might cause the regulator to not fire anymore, you shouldn't depend on this. You still need to know which batteries are safe for the way you vape.

 

[Susan~S]

Also, just so I get it right, with a regulated mod like the ones I am considering to buy, the chip will determine whether its safe to fire?

No, as Mooch as in the post above me.

The best way to determine how many amps you will be drawing (at min battery voltage) is to use the max wattage you plan on vaping at and follow this guide by @Mooch.

• Calculating Battery Current Draw for a Regulated Mod

 

[badinfluence357]

Are the MXJO batteries as good as they say they are or is it just another battery hype? Any feedback on these batteries?

 

[Baditude]

Are the MXJO batteries as good as they say they are or is it just another battery hype? Any feedback on these batteries?

They are likely rewraps (who know what cell they use?), and will likely have exaggerated specs concerning their amp rating. Take a look at the bench tests of these by Mooch in his blog. Mooch's Blog

You can do better than MXJO (ie. Lg, Samsung, Sony).

 

[badinfluence357]

LGs is the way to go. Thanks!

 

[Completely Average]

Just to clear up something here.

Samsung 25R = 20A battery @ 2,500 mAh
Sony VTC5 = 20A battery @ 2,600 mAh
Efest 30A battery = 20A battery @ 2,100 mAh

LG HG2 = 20A battery @ 3,000 mAh

Since they're all 20A batteries you're better off going with the longer charge life of the LG HG2.

 

[KenD]

Just to clear up something here.

Samsung 25R = 20A battery @ 2,500 mAh
Sony VTC5 = 20A battery @ 2,600 mAh
Efest 30A battery = 20A battery @ 2,100 mAh

LG HG2 = 20A battery @ 3,000 mAh

Since they're all 20A batteries you're better off going with the longer charge life of the LG HG2.

And the Efest might or might not be a 20 amp battery.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Lucas Rong]

I am not to speak for the safety of these cells but I have been running around 0.1 on a mech with a single vtc5. I never had any problems with batteries warming up or getting hot. And battery life is not bad. I have found that vtc5 have a higher capacity at lower ohms compared to a 25r and purple efest just behind the 25r. Granted, I do not suggest rocking neither 25r or purple efests on a 0.1 build but I only use them on rare occasions when all my battery die on me. As far as using them in box mods goes, vtc5 last way longer.

 

[sonicbomb]

@Lucas Rong you have no idea what you are talking about, and will most likely blow your own face off in the near future. 42 amps from a 20 amp battery, jeeze...

 

[Lucas Rong]

@Lucas Rong you have no idea what you are talking about, and will most likely blow your own face off in the near future. 42 amps from a 20 amp battery, jeeze...

Maybe, I am just speaking from personal experience. So what batteries would you recommend for 0.1 builds for a single tube mod? Nothing is 100% safe and no batteries are guaranteed safe.

 

[sonicbomb]

There are no single 18650s rated for use at those amp levels, and there are inherent dangers in using a resistance that low. You would need to use a dual battery mod of some description to share the load. There are much tamer and far safer ways of making big clouds than kamakaze builds on a single battery mech mod.

If you raise the resistance up to 0.16 that would draw about 26 amps and you could use a 30 amp CDR battery and have some safety head room.

Sony VTC4
LG HB2
LG HB6

I apologize if I sound harsh, but having a face-full of teeth fragments and burning chemicals isn't something I would wish on anyone.