Cell harm seen in lab tests of e-cigarettes...

[AndriaD]

That's right - no one says that - the problem is people who use that fact, to make everything "dangerous". Because no product is 100% safe - mainly because idiots find ways to harm themselves, then some think that even 1% unsafe = a cause for regulation.

And because no product is 100% safe, individuals have to weigh the risk/reward - the possibility of particles from dry hits vs. the benefits of nicotine. The need for taste in eliquids to stay away from cigarettes vs. the possibility, even though no evidence in either cigarettes or eliquid suggests it, that diacetyl may cause harm. The enjoyment of big clouds vs. the enjoyment of flavor. The need of nicotine via ecigs vs. the harm caused to conditions - asthma, COPD by continuing to smoke. There are many other personal reasons to long to list.

This 'risk/reward' assessment for ecigs, fortunately has no effect on someone else's rights, so it is a personal choice only. Those who don't like diacetyl, big clouds, don't have asthma - can choose according to their preferences without interfering with any others. Only when you have people who know what's best for others and want to push or support gov't regulation, are choices then diminished - at least with ecigs. If it's a product that can affect other people - that's a different story.

When it's not the case that it affects others - as with ecigs - then those who still want to push toward regulation and intervene in others' personal choices - then they have to make that 1 or 2% risk so dangerous, either by using the children card, or using junk science, or some other form of fear-mongering in order to pursue their fake altruistic goals that make them feel good and almost no one else.

This gets right to the heart of why I vape: BECAUSE OTHERWISE, I WILL SMOKE! I'm well aware that vaping can be problematic for asthmatics -- I deal with those problems every waking minute, because if I just think, oh this is too dangerous, too much trouble, etc... I will go right back to smoking. Maybe smoking didn't cause my asthma as many problems... but guess what smoking can, and nearly always does, lead to? I think we all know the answers to that. I have even less business smoking than vaping!

I have my own personal reasons for eschewing diketones, which aren't too much because of their potential risks, but my own neurotic tendencies... but I must have strong, sweet flavors if I'm to stay happy with vaping. So I've taken the time and trouble to find ingredients that I don't think will trouble me too much -- risk/reward.

I also had to deal with the risk/reward of WTA -- it very well might be more carcinogenic than plain nicotine, and it might be one of the causes of some of my asthmatic problems... but without it, I would never have been able to stay smoke-free. Risk/reward.

It's part of life; the ability to weigh it cautiously and make good judgements is one of the foremost indicators of maturity and intelligence.

Andria

 

[DorianC]

Heck, water is toxic even if you drink too much of it! There is "water intoxication," and it can kill you!

Even the most important ingredient for human life: OXYGEN! Can be highly toxic when there is too much of it. All these products that are "anti-oxidants"... They exist because oxygen is toxic!

Andria

I agree completely - let's alert the media and file a study.

 

[nopatch]

Let's all remember that when studied, high levels of water are also toxic when inhaled.

....you drown.

That is why we don't inhale steam.

 

[nopatch]

There is no literature to speak of regarding ecig health effects.There are small studies done recently which shows deleterious effects of inhaling pg,vg vapors.All those negative studies are junk science, that goes without saying .

 

[nicnik]

There are small studies done recently which shows deleterious effects of inhaling pg,vg vapors

Got any links to any of those studies?

 

[DorianC]

That is why we don't inhale steam.

We do all the time... Dont you cook?

 

[nicnik]

We do all the time... Dont you cook?

I think steam is way too hot to safely inhale. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[DorianC]

I think steam is way too hot to safely inhale. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Mind you, I'm not dogging this but did you ever inhale the steam from your food to prepare for the meal?
Take in the sothing steam from a bowl of soup when you have a cold?
Go to a sauna for a steam bath, you breathe that in.
Point is, steam can be therapeutic, comforting and even a remedy for a clogged sinus.

Just my point of view, could be wrong but steam in comparison to 4,000 chemicals is an improvement.
The only reason why we hear otherwise is because the fortunes of the tobacco industry on one side and the fortune of the nicotine patch/gum/ad naseum on the other.

Till i read a report from a reliable source that says steam causes cancer, I'll vape.
And yes, I've had this debate a gazillion times.

 

[nicnik]

Mind you, I'm not dogging this but did you ever inhale the steam from your food to prepare for the meal?
Take in the sothing steam from a bowl of soup when you have a cold?
Go to a sauna for a steam bath, you breathe that in.
Point is, steam can be therapeutic, comforting and even a remedy for a clogged sinus.

Just my point of view, could be wrong but steam in comparison to 4,000 chemicals is an improvement.
The only reason why we hear otherwise is because the fortunes of the tobacco industry on one side and the fortune of the nicotine patch/gum/ad naseum on the other.

Till i read a report from a reliable source that says steam causes cancer, I'll vape.
And yes, I've had this debate a gazillion times.

Isn't steam always above 212 degrees farenheit?

 

[Lessifer]

Isn't steam always above 212 degrees farenheit?

I think that's the point at which water boils to produce steam, but once the steam rises into the air it cools and condenses into visible water vapor.

 

[nicnik]

I think that's the point at which water boils to produce steam, but once the steam rises into the air it cools and condenses into visible water vapor.

OK, so I just read up a bit on it, and the terms are often used in informal ways that aren't technically correct. If I understand it, steam and water vapor are the same, and above boiling point. I'm not sure, but I think what people commonly refer to as water vapor (and sometimes steam), is technically aerosol.

 

[Lessifer]

OK, so I just read up a bit on it, and the terms are often used in informal ways that aren't technically correct. If I understand it, steam and water vapor are the same, and above boiling point. I'm not sure, but I think what people commonly refer to as water vapor (and sometimes steam), is technically aerosol.

Yeah, it's all a bit semantic

but to the original point, we do inhale water aerosol, all the time. We may not inhale direct "steam" because it would be so hot it would scar our lungs(if super heated, not from a boiling pot), but it would not drown us. Otherwise the London fog would send people running scared for their lives.

 

[vlodato]

I don't recall anyone on ECF ever saying that vaping is 100% safe, since literally NOTHING in the universe meets that standard, a fact with which we're all familiar, and the reason why we attack so viciously all those vaping critics who preface their remarks with "It's not 100% safe..." Nothing meets that level of safety, so it's utterly ridiculous to be constantly throwing that in, as if it means anything!

Andria

No but many imply it. Iv been in plenty arguments with "vets" on here who think vaping is God's gift to man kind and to think otherwise then I might as well be part of the problem.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

 

[Lessifer]

No but many imply it. Iv been in plenty arguments with "vets" on here who think vaping is God's gift to man kind and to think otherwise then I might as well be part of the problem.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

I might be one of the people you're referring to, though I don't recall ever getting into a discussion with you. It's not that I believe vaping to be 100% safe, it's that to date, there have not been any credible studies that even suggest that vaping is any more harmful than walking through an urban area.

 

[nopatch]

We do all the time... Dont you cook?

That is like 1% steam may be for a max of couple of minutes.It will be even less if you have some sort of exhuast arrangement.

 

[nopatch]

Got any links to any of those studies?

They are covered under junk science heading in this subforum, I gather.

 

[nopatch]

OK, so I just read up a bit on it, and the terms are often used in informal ways that aren't technically correct. If I understand it, steam and water vapor are the same, and above boiling point. I'm not sure, but I think what people commonly refer to as water vapor (and sometimes steam), is technically aerosol.

The explanation given above is succinct.Steam is essentially water vapor at boiling point.Once steam escapes from boiling water it rapidly gets cooled and gets in to the process of condensation, at which point it is no longer steam but water vapor.

 

[Rossum]

Isn't steam always above 212 degrees farenheit?

Visible steam? No. Visible steam consists of droplets. Just like our vapor.

 

[SQToyota]

Driving is the most dangerous thing i do. Ill keep vaping.

 

[nicnik]

The explanation given above is succinct.Steam is essentially water vapor at boiling point.Once steam escapes from boiling water it rapidly gets cooled and gets in to the process of condensation, at which point it is no longer steam but water vapor.

Not if I understand what I've been reading, which is that steam and water vapor are the same thing. Invisible and above boiling point. If steam (aka water vapor) cools and becomes visible, it is no longer steam (aka water vapor). Technically speaking, that is.