How NOT to do things....

[Falconeer]

5 Vaping Researchers Who Clearly Don’t Understand Vaping

This very interesting article came up on my News Feed this morning and sheds quite a but of light on the (deliberately?) wrong methodology being used by some of the researchers and certainly does suggest that their only interest was in coming up with the results their paymasters wanted.

I commend this piece to you all.

 

[nicnik]

5 Vaping Researchers Who Clearly Don’t Understand Vaping

This very interesting article came up on my News Feed this morning and sheds quite a but of light on the (deliberately?) wrong methodology being used by some of the researchers and certainly does suggest that their only interest was in coming up with the results their paymasters wanted.

I commend this piece to you all.

This is great!

I agree with your "(deliberately?)". Some of it may have been intentionally misused. Some of it may have been intentionally unresearched. I don't believe any of it was done without the researchers knowing that they were at least maybe misusing the vaping equipment.

 

[choochoogranny]

Thank you, Falconeer. Sounds just like how our laws are made by the clueless and the bought.

 

[Falconeer]

This is what really really gets me - we all know Big Government with its greedy eye on Tax Revenue, Big Terbaccy and Big Pharma are behind all this ( the last two with their even greedier eyes on profits ) and of course these are the ones financing all this crappo research - yet the said crappo research gets all the publicity which of course Joe Public buys. It's all so wrong!

The best bit I read was - had they really genuinely wanted to find out how vaping devices are used all they had to do was ask either the students or the first 50 vapers they happened across ( or alternatively come here to Hawick and ask just about any second person walking up the High Street - the chances are that they'd either be sooking on a mod or have one in their pocket or bag!)

 

[Steamix]

... all they had to do was ask either the students or the first 50 vapers they happened across ( or alternatively come here to Hawick and ask just about any second person walking up the High Street ....

That's EXACTLY what they are NOT going to do.
Ever.

Because it gets them answers they don't want to hear.

Funding comes with an on-the-record aim.
Like : Research e-cigarettes
Funding from sources with an agenda comes with an off-the-record aim too:
Like: Go find us some dirt

BT is selling something that will come out second worst only in comparison to a forest fire or a burning house.
I bet you my favourite mod that BT researched vaping. In their own labs, with their own staff, using their own money. Means they don't have to tell anybody what they've found out.
MSA settlement did reach unprecedented heights also due to the fact that BT did know long before the general public found out that their products are lethal in the long run. And they didn't tell. Quite the contrary.

Any BT CEO NOT buying up vape gear and testing it would not be CEO for long.

They tested. They not telling. If there was really something serious they could hang on vaping, tey'da done it already through intermediaries by just pointing researches in the 'right' direction.

The avalanche of studies that are flawed, slanted, and often don't even deserve to be called studies by even the lowest standards of scientific approach, the continious barrage of 'news', the ceaseless 'statements' by frothing-at-the-mouth ANTZ, they all show me one thing :

They've got NOTHING on vaping.

So, esteemed gentlepersons from BT,BP,BG,ANTZ :

Thanks for thus confirming indirectly that I'm on the right track by vaping on

 

[sofarsogood]

Governments buy too much science. Government politics corrputs the process. Instead of scientists we have science whores. We used to find cures for things. That doesn't happen any more because it's more profitable to just treat an illness instead. We created the FDA to solve the snake oil problem. Instead that made it much worse.

Our gigantic health care system didn't find a cure for smoking because they don't want a cure. We the people found a cure they can't control and they are mad as hell about it. If somebody came up with a cure for alcohol abuse or obeisity government scientists would find that it causes popcorn lung and appeals to kids.

 

[Falconeer]

Well said Steamix and sofarsogood!

It just gets me that there is so damn little that we can do about it. Vaping is a lifesaver...and all we can do is sign petitions and write to our so called representatives, must of whom appear to have been bought and paid for.

Sickening...but as was once said "if Democracy did any good they'd have banned it."

 

[sofarsogood]

Well said Steamix and sofarsogood!

It just gets me that there is so damn little that we can do about it. Vaping is a lifesaver...and all we can do is sign petitions and write to our so called representatives, must of whom appear to have been bought and paid for.

Sickening...but as was once said "if Democracy did any good they'd have banned it."

There are things we can do, especially in the internet age. I've written to my relevent representatives and will do it again. I've posted comments on hundreds of news stories to provide counter point. I always have time to help someone get started vaping or make it better. If there are public meetings I can attend I will. If more of us did more of that it might make a difference. It may have already made a difference. Very little has happened in the last 8 years except threats and chest beating.

 

[schatz]

Governments buy too much science. Government politics corrputs the process. Instead of scientists we have science whores. We used to find cures for things. That doesn't happen any more because it's more profitable to just treat an illness instead. We created the FDA to solve the snake oil problem. Instead that made it much worse.

Our gigantic health care system didn't find a cure for smoking because they don't want a cure. We the people found a cure they can't control and they are mad as hell about it. If somebody came up with a cure for alcohol abuse or obeisity government scientists would find that it causes popcorn lung and appeals to kids.

Totally agree with you on this one, and by the way their are cures or replacements for alcohol, you just have to do some digging and reseaerch on the internet to find them. They are not gonna tell you. Thats what I love about the worlds info at the touch of our fingers, makes it harder for them to keep us ignorant and on the path to lifetime moneymakers for BT,BP and whatever else I cant think of right now.

 

[VNeil]

5 Vaping Researchers Who Clearly Don’t Understand Vaping

This very interesting article came up on my News Feed this morning and sheds quite a but of light on the (deliberately?) wrong methodology being used by some of the researchers and certainly does suggest that their only interest was in coming up with the results their paymasters wanted.

I commend this piece to you all.

Five like minded propagandists can peer review each other's studies and pretty much say anything they want in the interests of "science". Those researchers are all very highly educated. To suggest they were just confused defies credibility. As such I thought the article was kind to them. It is better to be called stupid than a liar.

 

[choochoogranny]

If they're "highly educated", then it doesn't say much about the schools they went to get that diploma......but we already know that the university system is going by way of our K-12. Wonder if any schools require or even offer a course on ethics today.

 

[VNeil]

If they're "highly educated", then it doesn't say much about the schools they went to get that diploma......but we already know that the university system is going by way of our K-12. Wonder if any schools require or even offer a course on ethics today.

I think too many people here don't take our adversaries seriously enough. They are very highly educated, and they are very, very smart. Far smarter than most people here. They know exactly what they are doing.

As far as ethics, please consider that most or all of the junk science propaganda studies are actually granted to universities, who get to split the multi-million dollar booty associated with each grant with the researcher worker bees who dutifully type up the results demanded by the customer (the gov't agency letting out the grant).

 

[choochoogranny]

Thanks, VNeil. So, what and who do we believe on ANY study?

 

[VNeil]

Thanks, VNeil. So, what and who do we believe on ANY study?

The problem with junk science is that it casts a pall on all science. We are left to believe what we want to believe. The interesting thing, though, is that most of this junk science clearly states the junk part in the body of the study where it describes it's methodology. So a critical thinker can often figure all this out. The problem is that the public at large does not think critically. Nor do their own homework. It is how propaganda works. And it should be obvious that no matter how thin the veneer of credibility, the propaganda is extraordinarily effective.

 

[choochoogranny]

There ought to be some sort of penalty for "scientific fraud" among that particular community.

 

[VNeil]

There ought to be some sort of penalty for "scientific fraud" among that particular community.

Fraud would involve something like outright falsification of data. If you dry burn an atty and test and report the results, that is not "fraud" in the strict sense. Nor is it fraud to fail to mention no one could possible vape the vapors you tested.

Checkmate.

 

[choochoogranny]

Okay. How 'bout "scientific malfeasance"? Misdirection? Isn't there anything out there that would make a scientist think twice about fudging with the results? I'm grasping here, I know; but I still would like to believe there is honesty and integrity left......somewhere.

 

[nicnik]

Fraud would involve something like outright falsification of data. If you dry burn an atty and test and report the results, that is not "fraud" in the strict sense. Nor is it fraud to fail to mention no one could possible vape the vapors you tested.

Checkmate.

OK, maybe not fraud by the legal term. What's a better word for it? It should be punished within the scientific community, if not the law.

 

[choochoogranny]

If a scientist's "misdirection" is proven to harm people, should that not be punished in some way? There are drunk drivers who are sent to prision for vehicle homicide even though there was no intention of harming anybody. Scientist would know what they're doing IS going to harm quite a few?

 

[VNeil]

OK, maybe not fraud by the legal term. What's a better word for it? It should be punished within the scientific community, if not the law.

Yes, it should be punished by the scientific community, who are all lined up at the same pork trough, and taking money from the same "customers". Everyone in the scientific community has big mortgages, expensive cars, tastes for fine dining, and children to send to Ivy League schools. That is the world we live in.