SMPL Mod (clone) discussion

[Nikea Tiber]

Disassemble your switch, clean every part that makes sliding contact (this is where the current should be passing, if the spring ends up as the path of least resistance, you are going to have a bad time at low atty resistance, because the spring is another heating coil in this situation). When you reassemble, dope all sliding surfaces with a dielectric grease of your choice (tons on the market).
Many high end authentic mechs have rhodium plated contacts because they require much less cleaning. Most major cities in the US have jewlery repair shops that do rhodium electroplating. The cost of plating your switch parts may be reasonable enough to try and see if it is a fix or alleviation.
If you are dead set on making a spring work it should be as short as possible in total wound length, and as thick a gauge as possible to keep the possible resistance of the spring as low as possible.

Because this is a thread about the SMPL, I feel that this may be an unwanted suggestion, but if you are dead set at vaping .14-.19 ohm atties on a single cell mech (you had better be using vtc4s first off), consider switching to a mech that is resistant to hot switching issues. The praxis/prax1s and the 4Nine come to mind for me.
A 1:1 praxis has a huge switch contact and the main tension spring can't carry current due to design.
The main engineering consideration when you design a switch for high amperage situations is the mass of the electrical contacts; larger contacts take longer to heat up, can dissipate more heat/second, and have a lower electrical resistance. Keep this in mind when you are looking at the switch components on a mech; bigger is better. The praxis' switch contact is the largest I've seen in a single cell mech.
A 1:1 4Nine has a magnetic switch that is pretty similar in working design to the praxis. The 4Nine has two contact parts; the switch, and a magnetic spacer. The switch is retained by the bottom of the mod's hull/tube. Both the spacer and switch have embedded magnets, the spacer affixes to the negative end of your battery (seen here on a vtc4) and repels the battery off the switch.

The big advantage to this setup besides simplicity and stupid short switch throw is the negative contact of your battery is protected from pitting by the magnetic spacer. Adjusted correctly, the magnets dont make contact when the mod is firing. The magnet in the spacer and button are sunk enough that all contact is copper to copper.
Only downside is this isn't a pocket friendly mod, switch is a hair trigger with no safety. I would never build over CDR with a 4Nine.
I've ran both my praxis and 4Nine with a quad coil Kennedy built to .14 ohms. Battery life is... short but no hotswitch issues with either mod, ever. I'm sure there are more single cell tubes that are hot switch resistant by design.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I have 3 smpl clones which all does this when using low enough builds. Also a king v2, but a little rarer... My smpl with magnets is def. no better than the spring types... If some of you guys don't have it, then I suspect you use higher builds than I/we with issues do... Of course everything should be clean that's a given already...

I suspect it's what sonicbomb stated, i.e. button-thread-tolerances > arching, but don't know personally... Btw, the spring listed by Kprthevapr has gotten good reviews by many with this issue also... However, you should be able to get the same I believe with e.g. stripping some coax cable and making your own copper spring, I'm gonna try that I think... I would rather buy a spool though, but have a hard time navigating around all the different types and with e.g. different protective stuff on it I would avoid etc. Of course if making your own, you need to clean it much more often, as it's not plated like the loaded spring is...

Btw, check out the VD difference with stock vs copper spring here, but on other mod though:

Loaded Springs Mechanical Mod Springs

Check out harbor freight, as I can see they have e.g. a 100 or 200 piece assorted spring set which is nickel plated for under 10 bucks... Maybe it's the same as ninja uses to magically never have hot-buttons in any of his gazillion mechs... Somehow I still suspect much is in the difference of resistances used... I cannot find the same in my country, though... I have bought several springs in bronze and in copper alloy and some gold-plated, but they don't freakin' fit! Then I've made my own of SS316L 20g, which doesn't help the issue, but because it's so thick I cannot make as much wraps as normal, which I dont now is fine or not? I would guess it is actually better, as lesser resistance then, but dunno? Of course I could wrap it in an in/outgoing-shape, but haven't been able to yet lol...

Personally, I am using more parallel boxes than tube mechs, and there the issue is often better thankfully...

Btw, it doesn't always come... It can be fine for 20 minuttes and then bam, hot-button if not resting for eg. 15 minuttes... And no, the battery is not hot as I know my battery specs and adhere to them! (Sorry )

Another very imho plausible theory i've thought about, is that since the button isn't 100% "stable", meaning it can be pressed slightly skewed in, then the negative contact-pin can at times touch the battery at an angle, which I suspect leads to arcing at the side not fully touching then, and hence sparks > hot-botton... This is an issue of many tube mechs, I suspect...

I need to get various oxidation/conductivity products, but I need to get them from overseas and they are really expensive... If I knew it would fix it, then fine, money worth it for sure, but some report mixed results... E.g the "top-dog"; deoxit gold, is crazy expensive and especially from overseas... If everything is clean to begin with, I have a hard time understanding how these products are improving things to a noticable degree imho, but I guess e.g. bad thread-tolerances could be sorta over-come by such conducting layer(noalox/deoxit etc), but dunno for sure...

I'm on a budget currently, so cannot just spend without proper justification, and e.g. I can get several nice parallel boxes for the price of one jar of deoxit, so haven't bothered yet...

The main reasons I don't have hot button issues isn't magic.

I replace most springs because they DO carry current. They are metal and they are in contact with the current.
If they are poorly made they can and will get hot.

I also clean my mods. Really well, not just a wipe with cleaning cloth.
Patina on threads is a conductivity killer, and most people neglect the threads.

As far as build goes, I don't exceeded battery limits but my a day vape is around. .2 ohms on a single 18650.

If the button stays cool at .2 it's not going to get hot.

 

[Mrez]

This picture...feels like deja vu XD. I think so..Certainly the top of the contact, the sleeve of the top piece. Not sure if i got the waves on the top piece, but definitely the threads.

 

[Mrez]

Disassemble your switch, clean every part that makes sliding contact (this is where the current should be passing, if the spring ends up as the path of least resistance, you are going to have a bad time at low atty resistance, because the spring is another heating coil in this situation). When you reassemble, dope all sliding surfaces with a dielectric grease of your choice (tons on the market).
Many high end authentic mechs have rhodium plated contacts because they require much less cleaning. Most major cities in the US have jewlery repair shops that do rhodium electroplating. The cost of plating your switch parts may be reasonable enough to try and see if it is a fix or alleviation.
If you are dead set on making a spring work it should be as short as possible in total wound length, and as thick a gauge as possible to keep the possible resistance of the spring as low as possible.

Because this is a thread about the SMPL, I feel that this may be an unwanted suggestion, but if you are dead set at vaping .14-.19 ohm atties on a single cell mech (you had better be using vtc4s first off), consider switching to a mech that is resistant to hot switching issues. The praxis/prax1s and the 4Nine come to mind for me.
A 1:1 praxis has a huge switch contact and the main tension spring can't carry current due to design.
The main engineering consideration when you design a switch for high amperage situations is the mass of the electrical contacts; larger contacts take longer to heat up, can dissipate more heat/second, and have a lower electrical resistance. Keep this in mind when you are looking at the switch components on a mech; bigger is better. The praxis' switch contact is the largest I've seen in a single cell mech.
A 1:1 4Nine has a magnetic switch that is pretty similar in working design to the praxis. The 4Nine has two contact parts; the switch, and a magnetic spacer. The switch is retained by the bottom of the mod's hull/tube. Both the spacer and switch have embedded magnets, the spacer affixes to the negative end of your battery (seen here on a vtc4) and repels the battery off the switch.
View attachment 529240

The big advantage to this setup besides simplicity and stupid short switch throw is the negative contact of your battery is protected from pitting by the magnetic spacer. Adjusted correctly, the magnets dont make contact when the mod is firing. The magnet in the spacer and button are sunk enough that all contact is copper to copper.
Only downside is this isn't a pocket friendly mod, switch is a hair trigger with no safety. I would never build over CDR with a 4Nine.
I've ran both my praxis and 4Nine with a quad coil Kennedy built to .14 ohms. Battery life is... short but no hotswitch issues with either mod, ever. I'm sure there are more single cell tubes that are hot switch resistant by design.

I'm not against the Praxis or 4 nine persae, I am just specifically using the SMPL as a vacationing mod. Last thing I want to do is bring my XXIX, Stingray, or Mizrah (or a praxis or 4nine) through customs and have it taken. If the SMPL is taken, sucks for my trip, but easy enough to replace at a minimal cost. I had another mod with a magnet set up like the 4 nine and like it alot actually, but it was big and bulky so i passed it on. I'm also not looking to set up the SMPL to handle super deep subohm builds..for starters, I don't push single tube mechs past .2 or so (and that's on Samsungs), and once in a while will use a .18 on a Vtc4. Safety considerations aside, you get funny looks from people when your laying on the beach and there's thunderclouds that smell like desert spinning around you. Not to mention the constant harassment to buy pot (true story).

So, lets assume i do another strip down of the switch, hit the waves with the grease after a brasso/mother mag treatment, then a rinse, and rub down with alcohol. I think the wire I got is 24 gauge SS. Do I want to shoot for higher or lower resistance in the spring? If that fails...then I can probably track down some copper wire..20 gauge somewhere.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Walmart sells 20g copper, brass, and silver plated wire in their craft department.

 

[Nikea Tiber]

You want as low a resistance as possible for a spring. Thick wire with as little length as possible.

 

[duc916]

This picture...feels like deja vu XD.

I thought it might ring a bell.

Not to mention the constant harassment to buy pot (true story).

Happens to me in Santa Cruz every time.

 

[mhertz]

The main reasons I don't have hot button issues isn't magic.

I replace most springs because they DO carry current. They are metal and they are in contact with the current.
If they are poorly made they can and will get hot.

I also clean my mods. Really well, not just a wipe with cleaning cloth.
Patina on threads is a conductivity killer, and most people neglect the threads.

As far as build goes, I don't exceeded battery limits but my a day vape is around. .2 ohms on a single 18650.

If the button stays cool at .2 it's not going to get hot.

I've made my own wire with 20g SS316L wire, I believe that would be fine, although not positive, but will get others when found... Of course it's not enough to wipe with cloth lol... I'm a little OCD and use about an hour per mod for the cleaning, especially threads... That's just cleaning, not greasing as I don't use such, yet at least... I love 20g wire, so run very low on unregulated mods... I will not say what, since i'm tired of defending that I know/understand what i'm doing...

Btw, thank you all for some really great posts in this thread! Appreciated!

 

[Bad Ninja]

I've made my own wire with 20g SS316L wire, I believe that would be fine, although not positive, but will get others when found... Of course it's not enough to wipe with cloth lol... I'm a little OCD and use about an hour per mod for the cleaning, especially threads... That's just cleaning, not greasing as I don't use such, yet at least... I love 20g wire, so run very low on unregulated mods... I will not say what, since i'm tired of defending that I know/understand what i'm doing...

Btw, thank you all for some really great posts in this thread! Appreciated!

We see a lot of threads about vapers with hot button issues in all kinds of mechancial mods.

However some mods are made with copper, brass and silver plated high quality springs.

Have you ever seen a thread where someone had a high quality spring and had a hot button issue?


Just sayin.

 

[Mrez]

We see a lot of threads about vapers with hot button issues in all kinds of mechancial mods.

However some mods are made with copper, brass and silver plated high quality springs.

Have you ever seen a thread where someone had a high quality spring and had a hot button issue?


Just sayin.

I have to say, I've had a reasonable number of tube mechs over the years and the only ones that gave me issues like this are the SMPl and Workhorse. Every time I've only got a hot button on my XXIX once, and that was resolved quickly, never on my red copper stingray, and never on my stingray x clone. Actually I'm hoping to resolve the issue on both the SMPL and Workhorse with the same wire. I don't use the work horse anymore, but it would be nice to have it working so I can put it back in rotation, or possibly bring it with me on vacation. The brass tube polished up looks nice

 

[Bad Ninja]

I have to say, I've had a reasonable number of tube mechs over the years and the only ones that gave me issues like this are the SMPl and Workhorse. Every time I've only got a hot button on my XXIX once, and that was resolved quickly, never on my red copper stingray, and never on my stingray x clone. Actually I'm hoping to resolve the issue on both the SMPL and Workhorse with the same wire. I don't use the work horse anymore, but it would be nice to have it working so I can put it back in rotation, or possibly bring it with me on vacation. The brass tube polished up looks nice

Interesting.
I had to replace the spring in one of my workhorse mods. (I have three)
The other two had no problems at all.

 

[sonicbomb]

I bought a single spring off ebay to replace the magnets in a mech. I chose one of roughly the right dimensions and strength, then used wire cutters to shorten it so the throw was correct and would fit inside the button.

 

[Mrez]

Interesting.
I had to replace the spring in one of my workhorse mods. (I have three)
The other two had no problems at all.

The Workhorse was my third mod, right before my wife got me my stingray. I hadn't developed good cleaning habits yet, then started moving in the direct to battery direction. Workhorse got shelved after that, in part because the button, part because I hated the constant adjustments needed, and the stingray just had more uhmph to it. This was also when I was staying in the .3-.5 range. Once I hit the .25 range..the WH wasn't keeping up.

 

[Bad Ninja]

The Workhorse was my third mod, right before my wife got me my stingray. I hadn't developed good cleaning habits yet, then started moving in the direct to battery direction. Workhorse got shelved after that, in part because the button, part because I hated the constant adjustments needed, and the stingray just had more uhmph to it. This was also when I was staying in the .3-.5 range. Once I hit the .25 range..the WH wasn't keeping up.

It's a pain when using different batteries, or a bottom fill tank.
Lol
The O ring battery adjustments kinda suck, but it's a bare bones type mod.

I usually run HE2s in it so it's set up for that specific battery size.

When the battery gets low on builds near .2 I agree, it's more noticeable on the WH than say my brass King.

 

[Mrez]

Yeah the O rings...they made me nutty. I use the 25rs and VTC 4s mostly in my tubes, but I dont recall having to change O rings often. I had a fatty and slim one in there and it seemed to work, but I have a bunch of atties with diff lengths 510s, so getting the right fit was frustrating.

 

[mhertz]

Disassemble your switch, clean every part that makes sliding contact (this is where the current should be passing, if the spring ends up as the path of least resistance, you are going to have a bad time at low atty resistance, because the spring is another heating coil in this situation). When you reassemble, dope all sliding surfaces with a dielectric grease of your choice (tons on the market).
Many high end authentic mechs have rhodium plated contacts because they require much less cleaning. Most major cities in the US have jewlery repair shops that do rhodium electroplating. The cost of plating your switch parts may be reasonable enough to try and see if it is a fix or alleviation.
If you are dead set on making a spring work it should be as short as possible in total wound length, and as thick a gauge as possible to keep the possible resistance of the spring as low as possible.

Because this is a thread about the SMPL, I feel that this may be an unwanted suggestion, but if you are dead set at vaping .14-.19 ohm atties on a single cell mech (you had better be using vtc4s first off), consider switching to a mech that is resistant to hot switching issues. The praxis/prax1s and the 4Nine come to mind for me.
A 1:1 praxis has a huge switch contact and the main tension spring can't carry current due to design.
The main engineering consideration when you design a switch for high amperage situations is the mass of the electrical contacts; larger contacts take longer to heat up, can dissipate more heat/second, and have a lower electrical resistance. Keep this in mind when you are looking at the switch components on a mech; bigger is better. The praxis' switch contact is the largest I've seen in a single cell mech.
A 1:1 4Nine has a magnetic switch that is pretty similar in working design to the praxis. The 4Nine has two contact parts; the switch, and a magnetic spacer. The switch is retained by the bottom of the mod's hull/tube. Both the spacer and switch have embedded magnets, the spacer affixes to the negative end of your battery (seen here on a vtc4) and repels the battery off the switch.
View attachment 529240

The big advantage to this setup besides simplicity and stupid short switch throw is the negative contact of your battery is protected from pitting by the magnetic spacer. Adjusted correctly, the magnets dont make contact when the mod is firing. The magnet in the spacer and button are sunk enough that all contact is copper to copper.
Only downside is this isn't a pocket friendly mod, switch is a hair trigger with no safety. I would never build over CDR with a 4Nine.
I've ran both my praxis and 4Nine with a quad coil Kennedy built to .14 ohms. Battery life is... short but no hotswitch issues with either mod, ever. I'm sure there are more single cell tubes that are hot switch resistant by design.

Thank you so much! Due to that nice write-up, I just ordered a SS/brass praxis 1:1 clone and a 4nine copper clone! Appreciated! The praxis I hope I can adjust to liking(button-wise) and I can understand why it's supposed to be a hard-hitter with a beefy contact-pin and so few threads and pinless-topcap. The 4nine I like the design off, except I would prefer one 18650 tube but OK... Thanks again!

(Sorry for off-topic...)

 

[Nikea Tiber]

The praxis adjusts itself for battery rattle.

 

[mhertz]

Sorry, yeah, bad wording, I meant that after extended usage I hope to become comfortable with the locking-switch style button... Up front it looks like a pita honestly...

 

[Mrez]

Blast it, SS hobby wire came in and its to soft to make a good spring out of. Walmart is next.

 

[Mrez]

Some updates on this. I took everything apart again, polished, cleaned, and reapplied some ox gard to the contact, threads, and both sets of waves in the switch assembly. I put it back together and have been vaping away on it for the last 4 or 5 days. No hot button down to .23 ohms. Still on the original spring. Seems to be hitting nice, not quite as hard as my Stingray or XXIX (Both authentics), but I have no numbers to verify. I did try to build a coil with SS wire, and it didnt really work out well. I also hit WalMart today (and Good Gods Above I hate that place) to see if they had copper wire. They did, but it was to soft to make a useful spring out of, so I passed. I'm going to try and hit Harbor Freight tomorrow to see if I can find that box of assorted springs mentioned previously. Maybe I made a mistake, but is there a trick to making a compression spring? Should I torch the wire?