So now you can even get killed for vaping?
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I can understand why people might think that this was an unjustified shooting, but I believe it was justified. I've had a fair bit of training with firearms, including scenario-based training regarding the use of force continuum. More so than is required by most law enforcement officers. I thought it was important to do so when I obtained a concealed carry permit that allows me to carry a firearm in 34 states across the nation (but not the state where I live, although that's an entirely different discussion).
Put in that exact same situation -- as an officer with a person who has repeatedly refused to take their hands out of their pockets, who suddenly pulls an object from their pockets (which appears to have a gun barrel sticking out the front), grasps it with both hands as you would a firearm, and points it at you in a common shooting stance -- I would have fired too. I would have been greatly disturbed when I learned that it was not actually a firearm, as I am sure the officer involved is. But information learned after the fact does not retroactively make the shooting unjustified.
Put in that exact same situation -- as an officer with a person who has repeatedly refused to take their hands out of their pockets, who suddenly pulls an object from their pockets (which appears to have a gun barrel sticking out the front), grasps it with both hands as you would a firearm, and points it at you in a common shooting stance -- I would have fired too. I would have been greatly disturbed when I learned that it was not actually a firearm, as I am sure the officer involved is. But information learned after the fact does not retroactively make the shooting unjustified.
The police do an incredibly dangerous and these days a thankless job. Most people who criticise them haven't the faintest clue about what they are asked to do on a daily basis.
Walk a mile in my shoes.
See what I see,
Hear what I hear,
Feel what I feel,
Then maybe you will understand why I do what I do.
Walk a mile in my shoes.
See what I see,
Hear what I hear,
Feel what I feel,
Then maybe you will understand why I do what I do.
So still, the only relation to vaping I can draw from this thread is, if you are in a confrontational situation with the police, do not quickly withdraw your mod from your pocket and assume a Weaver stance pointing your mod at the armed, highly alert, and ready police officer or he or she may respond in a very predictable manner and disable you with deadly force, as is an appropriate response to the actions and visual clues that you present them with. 
Yeah, something like that. Unless you happen along police with "special training" and mystical powers that can tell you mean no one harm, then your good.So still, the only relation to vaping I can draw from this thread is, if you are in a confrontational situation with the police, do not quickly withdraw your mod from your pocket and assume a Weaver stance pointing your mod at the armed, highly alert, and ready police officer or he or she may respond in a very predictable manner and disable you with deadly force, as is an appropriate response to the actions and visual clues that you present them with.
I do think it's fortunate that video and photos were available, as I can completely understand someone hearing about an officer shooting a man holding a vape mod would sound outrageous. It also illustrates how important it is for episodes to be carefully examined before jumping to conclusions.
I think the relevance of this incident is to see how the media will somehow link the dangers of "vaping" to it.
If you are stupid enough to pull out your mod and use it to assume a shooting stance, then maybe, just maybe if you get shot and killed it's your own stupidity that caused your death.
In 3 months this death will of been caused by vaping. I can see results of the Glantz already.
Perhaps it will provide some incentive to train (teachable moment) police on today's vaporizers...what they look like...what they do. Couldn't hurt.
not all cops are inherently good people, nor are they better than regular people. they chose to protect citizens and lay their lives on the line, its great and brave, but everytime there's a story about a police officer who shoots somebody, particularly unarmed, the line that gets touted the most is 'but you don't understand because you're not a cop. they risk their lives for your safety' when all i can think is 'was this guy trained properly?' 'has this police officer faced situations like this before?' and 'should they continue to be a police officer?' and in this instance 'how was a pv mistaken for a gun?'.
there are many things cops do very well. they've helped myself, my siblings and mother many times, but heaven forbid i be mentally ill, have something thats somewhat similar in shape to a gun, a fake gun, i'm an ethnic minority or i reach for my drivers licence when being asked to identify myself. they're really not the best people in the world, they're an average person with little training and a gun, scared for their lives. the only difference in your job, and cops, is their mistakes can be lethal to others or themselves. it takes somebody very well adjusted with great instincts to be able to make accurate split second decisions, most cops don't have the instinct.
more training and screening, and rejection needs to happen when joining the force.
#sorryifitriggeredyou
get it? triggered? .....cringe
there are many things cops do very well. they've helped myself, my siblings and mother many times, but heaven forbid i be mentally ill, have something thats somewhat similar in shape to a gun, a fake gun, i'm an ethnic minority or i reach for my drivers licence when being asked to identify myself. they're really not the best people in the world, they're an average person with little training and a gun, scared for their lives. the only difference in your job, and cops, is their mistakes can be lethal to others or themselves. it takes somebody very well adjusted with great instincts to be able to make accurate split second decisions, most cops don't have the instinct.
more training and screening, and rejection needs to happen when joining the force.
#sorryifitriggeredyou
get it? triggered? .....cringe
There is no "cookie cutter" training that teaches an individual how to deal with his/her own self preservation. When faced with this kind of situation, right or wrong, nobody can honestly say what they'd do. (Especially without the benefit of hindsight).
Reminds me of a co-worker who got robbed at gunpoint back in the 70's. He was chastised and eventually fired for not pressing the silent alarm which was the "procedure" at the time. He was scared out of his wits and was just doing what the assailant demanded. Needless to say, the ensuing lawsuit he filed changed that policy in a hurry and cost a few jobs.
And to keep this on topic he is a vaper today. I converted him.
Training,screening ,and sometimes rejection is what happens before and after you go to the Academy. Maybe it's the people not complying who need more training.
Edit-As far as rejections the county my brother serves has a 98% failure rate meaning only 2% of the people who enter the academy become Police officers.
Edit-As far as rejections the county my brother serves has a 98% failure rate meaning only 2% of the people who enter the academy become Police officers.
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I support our LEOs. Especially here.
No sane person would say it was a bad shoot.
However there are problems with law enforcement officers and their departments.
Most local police officers of sheriff's deputys do not attend a "police academy".
Thats only in a few very specific, very large cities.
Most are simply hired after a application and background check.
Ill add that there is a serious issue with untrained, unqualified officers in this country.
Its a recent change.
Officers didnt used to be afraid to do the job they asked to do like many are today.
With great power comes great responsibility.
I always back LEO when they are in the right.
Im also quick to point out when they are in the wrong
Nervous cops need to find another line of work.
Active law enforcement isnt an easy job.
Not everyone is qualified to carry a badge and gun.
I was talking about this thread with my neighbor just a bit ago, he was a bit indecisive at first. Then I pointed my Istick 200w with a Kayfun V5 on it, drip tip first, at him, "Yeah, you'd get shot!"
I neglected to say he's a county Sheriff.
I neglected to say he's a county Sheriff.
accua
Ask a police officer if he/she thinks they get enough training and they will probably chuckle.They train CONSTANTLY!
Police officers make mistakes.They are human but to say there is a serious problem with untrained officers is hardly the case. The problem right now is a shortage of officers and it is not difficult to see why. I think every citizen should be made to do a ride along with a police officer at least once in there life.Only then could they possibly fathom the stressful,and quite frankly impossible job they do.Imagine going to work everyday with the fear that you will be shot,have to shoot, or possibly go to jail for the rest of your life if you make 1 bad choice.Why should they be nervous ? I don't know a cop who is not somewhat nervous.You would be too. My brother has had to kill 2 people in the line of duty.After the first I lost part of my brother.He was never the same happy guy I grew up with. We should stand up for our Police just like we do for our military because they have just as much to lose.While not infallible there record is quite extraordinary in the scheme of things. IMO they don't get near enough credit.
Every police officer in the country needs a training certification from a Police Academy.There is no place in the U.S. that hires a police officer without one.Some municipalities also require a degree in criminal justice.
Ask a police officer if he/she thinks they get enough training and they will probably chuckle.They train CONSTANTLY!
Police officers make mistakes.They are human but to say there is a serious problem with untrained officers is hardly the case. The problem right now is a shortage of officers and it is not difficult to see why. I think every citizen should be made to do a ride along with a police officer at least once in there life.Only then could they possibly fathom the stressful,and quite frankly impossible job they do.Imagine going to work everyday with the fear that you will be shot,have to shoot, or possibly go to jail for the rest of your life if you make 1 bad choice.Why should they be nervous ? I don't know a cop who is not somewhat nervous.You would be too. My brother has had to kill 2 people in the line of duty.After the first I lost part of my brother.He was never the same happy guy I grew up with. We should stand up for our Police just like we do for our military because they have just as much to lose.While not infallible there record is quite extraordinary in the scheme of things. IMO they don't get near enough credit.
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