Mixing By Weight: Basics 101

[Angela0111]

Yeah i am, and i agree % is %, but it also depends if the recipe originally created in % and not in volume or weight because those 2 are also possible. One thinks in % one in volume and the other on maybe in weight.

But i need to rest this for a week or so im a over-thinking LVL1000.
Lol, but thanks for the chat @Fozzy71

 

[zoiDman]

I want to start with mixing by weights but i can't get my mind of this ''problem'':
Lets' take one aroma is 0.95g/ml but you just use 1g so 1g=1,05ml.
For a mix you need 6g is 6x1,05ml= 6,3ml =5% more then actual needed.

Adding 5% More/Less Flavoring with respect to the Total Mix would make a Noticeable Difference. No Arguments there.

But if I use 10% Total Flavoring in Mix, and if my measurement of the Flavoring is off by 5%, Isn't the Error 5% of the 10%?

 

[Kenna]

My scale came with calibration weights, two 200g. You put one then when prompted, the other on the scale.
Once a month, I hit the CAL key and calibrate it.
Take all of about 3 minutes including getting the weights out of their baggie.

Mine came with those, also.

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[Fozzy71]

Adding 5% More/Less Flavoring with respect to the Total Mix would make a Noticeable Difference. No Arguments there.

But if I use 10% Total Flavoring in Mix, and if my measurement of the Flavoring is off by 5%, Isn't the Error 5% of the 10%?

thank you, .05% is negligible at best

 

[zoiDman]

thank you, .05% is negligible at best

Yeah... Maybe 1/2 the Thickness of a Black Line on a Syringe?

 

[ShowerHead]

But i need to rest this for a week or so im a over-thinking LVL1000.

You seem to be thinking that a scale can only measure in whole grams.
Mine is good to two decimal points, like .02 grams.
The calculator I use gives me three digit precision, like .024 grams.
I do round the third place, but I'm willing to bet that the scale and calculator are as accurate as your recipes.
No matter if they are in percentage, volume, or weight.

But, as others have pointed out, if you have taste buds that can detect the small difference you are talking about, you've got a lucrative career as a taster waiting.

 

[mhertz]

[...]
I think i stick to using the syringes, i think it takes a little more time and more mess and also more cost's over time. But i think it's also more fool proof and 300 syringes is about buying a scale. I have 150 flavours now. So 2x syringes for a flavor. I think i can use that for a year or 2 . Oh and i am also aware of pulling up 1ml with a syringe can be 0,92ml, so in that way its less constant vs by weight mixing.

That's fine, nothing wrong with volumetric mixing of course, most of us did that for years... However, as stated many times, the difference in accuracy is neglible, and even if you have tastebuds to notice, then it will ever only be a problem when going by a recipe from another person online that used volume, and that is by most of us already seen as a "tester", which maybe/probably needs fixing/changing/adapting anyway. Your own mixes will be repeatable, though possibly, but unlikely, slightly off from the online posted one...

Also even the SG in a MSDS can be different from your mixing because differences in temperature and if it's obtained a little bit water from humidity, I believe... I just use standard values in a close enough ball park which is repeatable anyway, though I understand it's nice to have the values as accurate as can be of course.

 

[Capt.shay]

Yeah i am, and i agree % is %, but it also depends if the recipe originally created in % and not in volume or weight because those 2 are also possible.

When one sees a recipes posted, it is almost always in percentages. If the recipe is in percentages then it really doesn't matter if you use ml or grams. The percentages should be the same.

I've looked at a lot of the manufacturers specified weight and they are mostly pretty close to 1. They don't very a whole lot. I don't think I have ever seen one that was as low as .89. If I did see that in one of my flavors then I might, might try to adjust that in my calculator but again, we are dealing in percentages so the only time this discrepancy may cause any inaccuracy is when trying to copy some one else s recipe and even then it would be nominal. Remember also that one drop is .03-.04 mg and that is as small as we can dispense (by either method) so having a 02-.03 is less than a one drop difference and it is difficult or impossible to get much closer.

A scale and a pack of 100 disposable pipettes will set you back less than $30 and I have found many uses for my digi scale other than mixing. For such short money, it is worth a try to get rid of the syringes and the mess.

Best of luck,
John

 

[DaveP]

After reading through another thread, a couple questions came to me about scale calibration. I'm not sure the specific scale is pertinent to the question, so just generally speaking for now:

1. How do you know your scale needs calibration? Is using a nickel or nickels known to be exactly 5 grams each placed on the scale before each session sufficient? Or just now and then or if you think it needs calibration? Or is there some other obvious indicator?

2. If your scale is "off", is it off a percentage or amount? Percentage being applied to any weight as in, off 10% (probably high, but easier calculation and explanation) so 1 gram reads 1.1 or .9 and 50 grams reads 55 or 45? For amount, off by 1 gram, so 1 gram reads 0 or 2 and 50 grams read 49 or 51? I'm assuming it would be consistent and not up, down, and all over the place.

3. And if that assumption (consistently wrong) is correct, does it really matter that the scale is off 1 gram/percent or 2 (mostly by percent)? In other words, if weighing short 1%, all ingredients would be short 1%, but actual ratios would be the same, but the total weight of the mix would be 1% short?

Maybe I am going overboard with my thinking, but after something else I read in another thread, wanted clarification on how frequently I should or need to calibrate and how to know when it is imperative to do so.

The AWS LB-501 comes with two 200G calibration weights for 200 and 400 gram calibration checks. We use a nickel to verify that it will accurately read small weights since our liquids are light weight measurements. My 3% nic add to a 50ml bottle is 1.5mg. I want to know it's at least close!

 

[DaveP]

Yes that is the one solution to use the specified gravity's.
But if you don't you can have a big difference. Also when using other people's recipe. You don't know if they used 1 or the real specified gravity. Which imo can also change, so every new batch of aroma's has to be measured again.

Ok you can do this yourself using a calibrated syringe or digital syringe which are expensive, but to measure each aroma takes also a lot of your time and you have to clean to measure each aroma. Also you have to keep it in a log and take that log again when you want to mix. Is just not fool proof to me.

I think i stick to using the syringes, i think it takes a little more time and more mess and also more cost's over time. But i think it's also more fool proof and 300 syringes is about buying a scale. I have 150 flavours now. So 2x syringes for a flavor. I think i can use that for a year or 2 . Oh and i am also aware of pulling up 1ml with a syringe can be 0,92ml, so in that way its less constant vs by weight mixing.

I use the scales and get good results if the recipe I'm using is accurate. Flavor is subjective. Nicotine should be close, but if were to be off 10% +/- on a 3% nic pour it's no big deal. I'd be at 2.7% or 3.3%. The rest are just base additives of PG and VG.

I frequently add flavor after the fact or dilute a bottle of DIY juice with unflavored Nic Base to get it right. Next time I mix I adjust the flavor accordingly. Published flavor percentages are just other people's ideas of what it should be. I use 1 gram per ml for flavor in my set points since virtually all flavors range from .93 to 1.07 grams/milliter according to BotBoy's research.

Botboy141 Guide to Mixing By Weight • r/DIY_eJuice

Ejuice mixes are like cooking recipes. The first time is according to the recipe. After that you add or take away a dab of this or that to suit taste. We use other peoples' recipes to start and play with the ingredients.

 

[Burnie]

I just ordered this yesterday
8 pcs calibration weight set 10g 20g 50g 100g 200g 500g -- 1000g total weight | eBay
Figured it would be good for calibration and checking my scale with the smaller weights.

 

[Eskie]

You seem to be thinking that a scale can only measure in whole grams.
Mine is good to two decimal points, like .02 grams.
The calculator I use gives me three digit precision, like .024 grams.
I do round the third place, but I'm willing to bet that the scale and calculator are as accurate as your recipes.
No matter if they are in percentage, volume, or weight.

But, as others have pointed out, if you have taste buds that can detect the small difference you are talking about, you've got a lucrative career as a taster waiting.

Just because a scale displays 3 digits after the decimal point (could be 7 for that matter) doesn't mean accuracy or precision. Only it has a screen that reads 3 digits.

I just ordered this yesterday
8 pcs calibration weight set 10g 20g 50g 100g 200g 500g -- 1000g total weight | eBay
Figured it would be good for calibration and checking my scale with the smaller weights.

Good buy. If you are going to rely on a scale, having multiple calibration weights is necessary as relying on a single weight will do nothing at the extremes for higher and lower values. Not all digital scales are linear in response.

Bottom line is if a digital scale meant for kitchen use is what you rely on for mixing, I wouldn't expect anything better than MAYBE an accuracy to 0.1 gm. Which is still more than sufficient for preparing juice with more than acceptable accuracy for a non-industrial commercial process. But recognizing limitations isn't a bad thing, it's simply accepting the reality of what you're doing (unless you really feel a >$500 NIST certified scale is needed for 100 ml of DIY juice).

 

[ShowerHead]

Just because a scale displays 3 digits after the decimal point (could be 7 for that matter) doesn't mean accuracy or precision. Only it has a screen that reads 3 digits.

Scale doesn't, calculator does.
I have no ability to test for less than 5 gram weight, but it's good for that. I also don't notice much error on the projected weight of a mixed juice. At least past my poor measuring technique accumulated errors.
My volume control goes to 11 too BTW

 

[73neb]

Scale doesn't, calculator does.
I have no ability to test for less than 5 gram weight, but it's good for that. I also don't notice much error on the projected weight of a mixed juice. At least past my poor measuring technique accumulated errors.
My volume control goes to 11 too BTW

According to the U.S. Bureau of Engraving and Printing, a dollar weighs one gram. This is the same weight for every denomination of a U.S. note.

 

[ShowerHead]

According to the U.S. Bureau of Engraving and Printing, a dollar weighs one gram. This is the same weight for every denomination of a U.S. note.

Cool fact! Thanks.

 

[Capt.shay]

Bottom line is if a digital scale meant for kitchen use is what you rely on for mixing, I wouldn't expect anything better than MAYBE an accuracy to 0.1 gm.

This isn't the first time I have seen you make this statement but I have checked mine many times with different weights and it has never been off by more than a couple of hundredths.

How far off were you finding the one you have used?

 

[Eskie]

This isn't the first time I have seen you make this statement but I have checked mine many times with different weights and it has never been off by more than a couple of hundredths.

How far off were you finding the one you have used?

The one I use for food? Haven't bothered checking it in a really long time. Then again, I don't use it all that much as with too many kitchen gadgets and crap already on my counters it mostly lives in a cabinet and I'll forget to pull it out even when it would likely be useful. Maybe I should keep it out.

 

[DaveP]

We all tend to think that "digital" means higher accuracy. Not exactly so unless it's been calibrated. Even then, we only know that it's most accurate around the weight of the calibration weights. Weighing a new nickel after calibration is a good test of lightweight accuracy.

Test Digital Scale Calibration With Coins

With scales, accuracy to a tenth of a gram is probably more than enough to make great juice.

 

[OlderNDirt]

Ooops! Wrong thread! Sorry!

 

[ChelsB]

Thank you for such a helpful thread!


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