18350 batteries

Discussion in 'Variable Voltage APV Discussion' started by love coffee, Oct 15, 2013.

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  1. love coffee

    love coffee Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Sep 11, 2013
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    Charlotte, NC
    I have the Smoktec SID mod and purchased an additional small tube so I can use it mini or maxi. But, I have purchased 2 different sets of 18350 batteries from two different suppliers, and NONE of them last longer than about 2 hours max (with intermittant vaping). I'm beyond frustrated with these batteries and their short life.

    Is this all I should expect from these batteries? Changing them every 2 hours was not what I planned. :mad:Both sets are 800 mAh if that matters.

    I'm about ready to go back to my eGo's. Even the 650 lasts at least a day. The 1100's last for DAYS.
     
  2. fourthrok

    fourthrok Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I don't know what the deal is, either. I bought the SID and with the 18650s...the battery life is about what is expected. But with the shorty tube on the SID and the 18350s...it's ridiculous. I have eFest, EH, and AMR both button top and flat top 700 to 800 mAh..and the most I can get out of any of them is a max of just shy of 3 hours. I don't get it. I've used many of those same batteries in the eGo T Mod (short tube size) and in my Ovale V8 and Smok e-pipe and got better life (admittedly the V8 uses two batteries). Anyway, aside from the shorter than expected battery life (I am a very heavy chain vaper and figure I really ought to get at least 4 or 5 hours) I'm also not happy that the mod seems to heat up quite a bit with my style vaping. I don't get that with the 18650 size on the SID..or with the other mods I've used the 18350s with. I'm mystified.
     
  3. love coffee

    love coffee Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Charlotte, NC
    Thanks for your reply. Very frustrating, but good to know I'm not crazy, at least. I also have shorter than expected life in my 18650 long battery too. I wonder if this issue happens with the Smoktek mods more than others? I returned my zmax mini for this exact problem.:mad:
     
  4. fourthrok

    fourthrok Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I doubt it is the brand. My theory is that the 18350s just don't handle VV/VW very well. The other mods I've used the 18350s in are either regulated to eGo (3.3v) or mechanical. The exception was the V8..and it used 2 18350s "stacked" or whatever it's called when you have to use 2 batteries in a mod at once. The V8 is VV...and even with 2 batteries in there, I didn't get impressive battery life.

    I have wondered sometimes if my vaping has gotten "worse" ...or heavier/harder hitting over the past two years because while I vape about the same amount of juice a day, I've noticed that since I switched to "mods" (APVs with removable batteries) the mAh life isn't what I would have expected. Back when I used eGos and vGos (KR808 type eGos) I could go 8 hours or so with a 1100 mAh battery. But with the 18650s and the big mods (regulated, VV/VW and mechanical) I only get about 6-8 hours with a 2000 mAh battery; approximately the same amount of time yet twice the mAh ! What is the sense in that?

    Ironically...I'm starting to play with my old eGos some more lately. I'm a little surprised how well the vape...and the small size is nice! I'd forgotten, I suppose. It's been at least a year since I messed with them.
     
  5. dr g

    dr g Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Couple reasons for your issues. First off the best 18350 is the AW 18350, with the Efest 2nd, and nothing else is really suitable for vaping.

    Second, a SID or full power APV can draw a LOT more power than an Ego can, what wattage settings are you using? Most egos peter out around 2A, it's pretty easy to hit 3+A on a full power APV.

    2-4 hours is pretty typical for an 18350 in an APV.
     
  6. love coffee

    love coffee Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I'm using efest predominantly. My other 18350's are some no-name brand, but the battery life is the same. Terrible.

    I generally vape at 3.7.
     
  7. fourthrok

    fourthrok Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Thanks! Yeah..I goofed. I meant to say I was using AW, eFest and the EH too. (I've not have any noticeable difference in performance with the EH compared to the other two).

    I don't push amps at all. I guess you could say I'm pretty light weight. I generally set my SID to about 5.5 to 6 watts, and use a 3ohm atomizer/carto with it. Sometimes, if I don't happen to have a 3ohm handy, I'll throw on a 2ohm since I figure the watts will "correct" things to where I like 'em. By using the Ohm's Law Calculator, it's apparent I don't use high amps at all....somewhere in the area of 1.4 to 1.8 amps or so. I played around with the calculator a bit...and it seems I don't particularly like anything as high as 2amps.

    I seriously am not a fan of very low ohm.

    I'm rather relieved there isn't anything really wrong with me if most people only get 2 or 3 hours from a 18350 on a VV/VW device. That means that if I really want the smaller size (when out and about) I'd better carry my battery case with extras.
     
  8. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    I agree with dr g. :shock:

    I use AW IMR's exclusively, primarily in a Provari Mini and also in a Ovale V8 (X2) like Fourthrok does, and in a Smoktek Gripper. With the Mini Provari I get 5 - 6 hours per battery. I suspect the SVD's processor is not as energy efficient as the Provari is.

    My only experience with another brand battery other than AW was purchasing some Efest IMRs in both 18350 and 14500 (for my daughter's BB). The Efests were put in a rotation with my AWs in the Provari and for the first couple of weeks they seemed comparable in capacity. However, after that I noticed marked dropoff in battery duration, of only 2 - 4 hours. My daughter noticed the same thing, as she asked why her batteries were only lasting 2 - 3 hours when they lasted 5 - 6 hours new. I ended up giving her the AW 14500 batteries that I had for my BB and told her not to use the Efests anymore. My Efests are now in a drawer, too.
     
  9. bluecat

    bluecat Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Cincy
    I bought some AW 18350s to use with a mech mod (smok kick as well) I was getting. I decided to use them in my SVD. I can tell you they don't last long. 3 hours max chain vaping. Considering my Spinner 1300 last about 6-7 hours.. It stands on reason they would last that long after I did the math.

    I was a bit shocked too as I felt they would last longer. 700mah isn't that much compared to the other mahs I have.

    I thought it was the SVD at first. Once I did the math though, I doubt it.
     
  10. love coffee

    love coffee Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    I'm really frustrated with the VERY short battery life I get with this device and the batteries. Even the 18650 doesn't last more than about 4-5 hours. Are you guys saying the SID uses voltage differently and another mod might last longer with these batteries? If so, then please give me an idea of a different mod to try (other than provari, cuz I can't afford that one:()
     
  11. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    I can't offer a recommendation. From what I have read, the Chinese manufacturers pretty much all use the same cheap processor in their devices. They all operate with the 33.3 hz PWM chipset. The Provari on the other hand uses a more expensive and efficient circuit board that is made inhouse and uses the patented Acuset Technology. It's PWM chipset is 800 hz. Maybe there IS a reason why a Provari costs more.
     
  12. D. Waterhouse

    D. Waterhouse Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 10, 2009
    Location:
    central WI USA
    For 18650s in my SID I use Panasonic hybrids and they last around two days at 7.5 watts.
     
  13. Thrasher

    Thrasher ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    +1, if you cant get through a day with that battery throw the mod in the trash lol. those batteries give me over 2 days in a provari running a 1.8 coil at 4 volts.
     
  14. dr g

    dr g Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Can you describe the full setup and settings? Coil resistance, voltage/wattage, and your usage pattern?
    What specific 18650 are you using?
     
  15. NicoHolic

    NicoHolic Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Jul 13, 2013
    Location:
    USA
    Comparing how long batteries last you for vaping says more about the vaping than it does about the batteries or the mod. Comparing how much juice a battery will get you through is better, but says as much about the efficiency of the juice delivery device as it does about the battery and mod. The only accurate way of comparing batteries' capacities is with a constant-current load at different discharge rates.

    Technologies being equal, a 700 mAH battery isn't going to last 700/2000 as long as a 2000 mAH battery at the same discharge rate because the discharge current used to establish the 700 mAH rating is much less than that used to establish the 2000 mAH rating. Higher capacity batteries handle the currents we use for vaping much better.

    Regulated mods can be particularly brutal on batteries, especially smaller batteries. The weaker the battery, the increasingly harder a regulated mod works it to maintain the set coil voltage (or wattage). Battery current is higher than coil current by at least a factor of the coil voltage divided by the battery voltage. The battery is regularly deeply discharged, decreasing its cycle life, and the regulated mod must have a low-voltage cut-off to protect the battery. These are the costs of regulated coil voltage.

    A mechanical mod is the opposite simply due to Ohm's Law. The weaker the battery, the less the current drawn from it, and, of course, the weaker the vape. For most of the charge life, the voltage decreases gradually, and that may go unnoticed. But at the end of the charge, the voltage (and vape) drops so suddenly, it can't help but be noticed. The user will change the battery out well above the battery's minimum voltage due to the dramatically reduced vape, and some will change it out above this point. The battery is regularly less deeply discharged and a low-voltage cut-off isn't needed.

    Coming full circle, before you make a consistent coil voltage your Holy Grail, consider that you are a bigger factor in vape. How hard and how long you draw probably vary all over the place--anything but consistent. Experienced mech users subconsciously compensate for gradually declining coil voltage. None of this addresses adjustability. If this is important to you, then the mech won't do it for you. You can only change the coil resistance to vary the power.
     
  16. dr g

    dr g Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    The great thing about variable voltage mods is ... you can vary the voltage. So if you need more runtime, lower the voltage. You can simulate mech behavior with vv/vw by lowering your power as the battery discharges.
     
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