4.8v batteries in proVari?

Discussion in 'Battery Issues' started by killovicz, May 1, 2012.

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  1. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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  2. BuGlen

    BuGlen Divergent ECF Veteran

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    From the web site:

    While they don't say to use only Li-ion (Lithium Ion) batteries at 3.7 volts, that seems to be the standard. So to be safe, I would only use the recommended (AW IMR) batteries and I believe these batteries are only currently available in the 3.7v format.
     
  3. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    First of all thanks a lot for your time and effort :)

    That much I knew my self, I have and use li-mn IMR, I'm hoping to be able to use 4.8v such that I can achieve 4.8v x 2.5a = 12watt :)

    Any1?
     
  4. Dougiestyle

    Dougiestyle Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Do not do it. The protection circuit in the Provari is designed to operate between 4.2 and 3.4 volts.if the Provari handles the higher voltage, great, but you're facing a dangerous situation by allowing the NiMh battery to fall too low before the low voltage cutoff of the Provari prevents use.

    You can get 12W out of the Provari. You just have to provide the correct resistance and voltage. The Provari will supply 4.8V as long as the coil is above 2.5ohm
     
  5. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Thanks for pointing this out for me, I haven't thought of that :) But I'm almost 100% that there is a protection circuit on the batteries 'em self!

    I can get aprox 11watt out of my proVari V1, even tho I'm not supposed to be able go above 9.2watt for the most of battery life! I was hoping to be able to pull at least 12 perhaps 13.5watt out of 4.8v, hmm :/

    I have a cisco at 1.4ohm, that runs like a dream on 3.9v (10.86watt) I was hoping to be able to go up to 4.2v (12.6watt) with 4.8v batteries

    Would 4.8volt batteries fry proVari, any1?
     
  6. Dougiestyle

    Dougiestyle Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Another point I might add is that I'm unsure if the NiMh batteries will provide the current to allow the Provari boost circuit to actually fire in the first place. The IMR is 8-10C. So, 4-5amps of current.

    I think you'll damage an expensive mod by trying to work outside its parameters. The Provari circuit does what it's supposed to do as designed with the power needed/supplied by the recommended batteries. Just because you supply more volts does not mean the circuit is goin to provide more output.
     
  7. Dougiestyle

    Dougiestyle Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    If you want to unload it or trade for something that provides higher amps, send me a PM. I have a Sabertouch VV w/HP (5amp) option. It will provide all the Watts you can handle and more. I've pushed 1.5ohm DCCs @ 6.5V. Way too hot, but I wanted to see if it would do it. Never again lol.
     
  8. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    First of all thanks a lot for your time and effort :)

    no current limit on NiMh they can provide 3.2amps at least, and my vari have a limit of 2.5amp (or it's supposed to)

    ..and proVari with LiMn IMR is all I need when it comes to vaping nic, BUT I need just 1 watt more to be able to vape "herbs" on my proVari. As it is now I use 1.4ohm cisco on a cable-mod with a fully loaded LiMn IMR 4.2volt to vape "herbs". If I use the same solution on a proVari at 3.9volt the herbal extraction keeps piling up in the atty :/

    It would be so convenient if a single mod could cover all my needs :)

    PS. ilolite kill my taste buds
     
  9. Switched

    Switched ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    The long and the short is no.

    The system (Provari) is designed to operate in a buck boost system supplied from a standard LI Mn 3.7V battery. Changing the source cell will not produce more watts but there is a good chance of frying the PCB in an attempt to get that extra watt, by supplying the board with too much current. Have you ever heard of a lighter?
     
  10. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Sort of like "can I get more storage space on my 500MB external hard drive if I run it on 12v instead of 5v from the USB? Or will it just run faster?"
     
  11. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Thank you for your reply :)

    Any kind of combustion kills my taste buds :(, ilolite which is an butane driven vaporizer (no contact between flame and the herbs) is unacceptable FOR ME!

    ------------------------------

    My best bet would probably be to ask proVape but they'll probably say no :/, just to be on the safe side.

    ------------------------------

    The question is would 4.8v (they start at 5.2v, lol) batteries fry proVari V1 for sure?

    I'm not trying to supply more current only higher voltage such that by pulling the same amount of current I can achieve higher wattage!

    I'm assuming that the current limit of 2.5amps is from battery through out the booster NOT from the booster trough out the atty? <<---- Any1?
     
  12. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Still asking? If the overvoltage 4.8 volt battery damaged the protection circuitry inside the Provary would it now be a dangerous device to use with Li-ion? Why not ask the vendor if he would replace it if you killed it playing with strange battery combinations. I sure hope you get your 'herb' fix soon. Before you blow something up.
     
  13. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Ok :)

    I only got my vari and if I blow it I would have virtually nothing to vape on :(

    So I'll ask proVape even tho I already know what they will say :/ Then I'll start saving for miniVari & when it arrives I'll try then on my proVari V1 :(

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Thank you all for your replays your time and effort is much appreciated :)
     
  14. Switched

    Switched ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    As Rocket stated talk to the vendor. A board that is designed to run on 3.7V does not like to have 5V shoved at it. If I was going to stack batteries, I'd sooner use 2 x AW LiPO4s before using 4 x 1.2s, just saying
     
  15. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    killo,
    the 4.8 volt Nimh battery is a stack of 600mah 1.2 volt cells. Drawing current to drive the Provari at 10 watts output is straining this little battery stack. I know that the 4.8v seems like a cure-all for the 3.7v limitation of the Li-ion but it really isn't. I'm pretty sure the circuitry inside the Provari was 'optimized' for a single 3.7v IMR source. Using more voltage to get a higher output is something that only someone with knowledge of the internal circuitry could answer. It sounds like selection of atty resistance to extract the most power (within specified operating limits) would be the best route. I see no reason the Provari should not be able to supply 10 to 12 watts with the correct IMR cell and an appropriate atty resistance.
     
  16. markfm

    markfm PIF Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Fundamentally, there's basically no way you should be able to do what you're trying to do.

    The V1 regulator is limited to 2.5A OUTPUT current. It doesn't matter what you shove into it (though it may blow the regulator), the regulator output is limited to 2.5 amps max. A higher input voltage won't change the limit on the output side, other than possibly breaking the unit. Whether the regulator can take a nominal 4.8V input is a Provape question; I haven't seen the specs on it, but that wouldn't change the output range.

    If you look at the batteries used in the Provari, they are high capacity, high discharge. The red AW IMR 1600 mAh is rated for 15C max discharge, meaning up to 24 amps. In theory you could then supply over 80 watts into the regulator, but the regulator will never draw anywhere near that power because it is limited to 2.5 amp output, with max output voltage of 6V; you cannot dial higher than 6V, and you're 2.5A limited, so the highest output power you can get to is 15W, and that only at 6V.

    If what you want to do, instead, is be able to use lower resistance atties at higher voltages than a V1 Provari, you could have it upgraded to a V2. The V2 trades a little on absolute max power, but increases the max current to 3.5A at lower voltages. Personally I think this is a smart move, since I expect more people are interested at using LR in the lower voltages than care about 6V, but that's just a guess.

    See: http://www.provape.com/v/images/ProVariV1vsV2.pdf The document compares V1 and V2, shows the max amps, and power, at different voltages.
     
  17. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Yeah I have noticed that there are LiPO4's around, tho not any AW's (thank you veri much for this) but I have already ordered 2 x 4 x 1.2s and a charger :), they will arrive b4 the weekend.

    The question is which range does the booster & circuit voltage regulator operate with in?

    4 x 1.2s can provide at least 3.2amps, more then enoff
     
  18. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    THANK YOU VERY MUCH :) :) :)

    That's the answer I was looking for :), I was in doubt if the amp regulator was between the booster and the atty or between the cell and the booster. Tho I'm still in doubt :/

    How come em I able to run 18500 cell dry at 4.2volt 1.6ohm = 2.625 amp output? And to be able to pull 11wat out of LiMn at 3.7volt is almost 3amps through out the "system" (booster, LDO, etc)? --->>I think I understand now

    Thank you everyone for your comments time and effort, much appreciated :)

    Special thanks to markfm for explaining the matter completely :)
     
  19. Rocketman

    Rocketman Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    The "power" from the battery will be about 10% higher than "power" delivered to the atty. In the example you gave that is right at the 2.5 amp output limit of the Provari (2.625 amps is pretty good). The input amps would be 3.3 amps, which is easily supplied from almost any good Li-ion cell. The peak pulse current sourced from the cell to the Provari circuit (it's not a simple series regulator) may be a couple times that) thus the recommendation for IMR or High Drain Li-ion.
    Note that simply changing to a 2 ohm atty would give you 12.5 watts at the recommended max current of 2.5 amps.
    A 2.2 ohm Joye atty could be used to give 13.75 watts. 1.6 ohm attys are 'current hogs'. Especially with a 'boost' regulator' :)

    Please don't even THINK about stacking LiPO4s in the Provari.
     
  20. killovicz

    killovicz Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Thank so much mate :), :)

    How stupid of me, I always tough that the current limit was input, hmm. Such that attys resistance had non to do with the maximum output. Lol SO all I need is an cisco at 1.8 ohm they ware available all the time, lol

    Cisco is the only one that can do the job, both when it comes to performance but mostly when it comes to durability!

    Now what to do with the 4.8v batteries + charger? Sell?

    I bought 'em in England, they still in the mail, I paid 23 quid with shipping, Im sure that I can get at least 15 quid here in Copenhagen if not 20. I only have 2 eGo batteries, boxMod for 14500's and proVari V1.

    I do have a cable-mod where they might fit in. Perhaps just keep 'em and hope to win in lotto 1 day and buy super t precise just for the sake of enthusiasm, lol
     
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