A Billion Lives

[JoeMischief]

Welcome to new members. I'm a new member myself. Everyone joining needs to know the facts and watch the movie A Billion Lives. The legendary Oliver Kershaw is even in it... We need to join the fight. We need to become an army. The British are epic at this stuff. We need to help our friends across the pond and across the world fight. We need to envigorate those who have the influence that are on the front lines of this battle with our support and passion for the moments when they feel jaded. This is an uphill battle but we're not done. I'm NOT done yet! #ABillionLives

 

[WillyZee]

wanted to go see it when it came to my city last year... however, $50 a ticket stopped that from happening.

IMO, the movie missed the boat ... they had a chance to make a difference pre FDA regs.

we live and learn in life

 

[JoeMischief]

Trouble is they kind of stumbled across this as non smokers/vapers by the looks of it so maybe their timing wasn't perfect as they didn't know they were on a clock? I'll hold my hands up this side of the water and say that pre euro TPD regulations and the FDA stuff we as a community missed our opportunity to do something like this knowing what was coming. However we may be small but we here in Britain are plucky for want of a better word. We can be a bit reactive rather than proactive when something bad is imposed on us by 'the man' but once we get our fight on we have turned an awful lot of things around... As far as I'm concerned the fat lady hasn't sung quite yet just because of TPD and FDA. Over there in the USA prohibition didn't stop you before! You just had speakeasys and then the law got turned round... Am I right? Two of the greatest nations the world has ever seen didn't get where they were through apathy!!!

 

[JoeMischief]

wanted to go see it when it came to my city last year... however, $50 a ticket stopped that from happening.

IMO, the movie missed the boat ... they had a chance to make a difference pre FDA regs.

we live and learn in life

My APOLOGIES. You spoke as though the FDA was going to affect you so I assumed you were in the States. Having checked your profile I will apologise for my ignorance as I see you are Canadian. Home of my favourite - Dr Fog!

 

[JoeMischief]

Sorry just to add. Movie is available online now as far as I'm aware. Just trying to say that they're just film makers. We are the ones to make a difference surely?

 

[sofarsogood]

Trouble is they kind of stumbled across this as non smokers/vapers by the looks of it so maybe their timing wasn't perfect as they didn't know they were on a clock? I'll hold my hands up this side of the water and say that pre euro TPD regulations and the FDA stuff we as a community missed our opportunity to do something like this knowing what was coming. However we may be small but we here in Britain are plucky for want of a better word. We can be a bit reactive rather than proactive when something bad is imposed on us by 'the man' but once we get our fight on we have turned an awful lot of things around... As far as I'm concerned the fat lady hasn't sung quite yet just because of TPD and FDA. Over there in the USA prohibition didn't stop you before! You just had speakeasys and then the law got turned round... Am I right? Two of the greatest nations the world has ever seen didn't get where they were through apathy!!!

There s very little awareness or concern among my coworkers who vape. My read of retailers is they are not raising the ban issue with customers because they fear scaring them off. I visit a few vape shops in my area occaisionally to see how they are doing. Compared to 2 years ago they are dead. May be there are too many shops here but may be mail order is killing them too. I'm in Michigan which has no state level laws about vaping. There is very little ecig press by Michigan news media. I suspect the fun will start when vapers can't get the products they rely on.

 

[WillyZee]

My APOLOGIES. You spoke as though the FDA was going to affect you so I assumed you were in the States. Having checked your profile I will apologise for my ignorance as I see you are Canadian. Home of my favourite - Dr Fog!

The FDA will most likely eventually affect vapers in Canada ... I'm just not one of them as I have everything to continue my vape style for 20+ years.

The propaganda against Vaping will never ease up ... as I mentioned, ABL had a shot pre FDA.


Sent via iPhone

 

[jseah]

Outside of the FDA, the real fear is legislation in the various states. The vaping industry got decimated in Pennsylvania when the state passed a 40 percent tax. The problem is the tax is assessed on the inventory that a store has in stock, not what is sold. So if a shop had $100,000 in unsold inventory of mods, tanks, RDA's, coils, juice, they needed to write a check to the state for $40,000 the day the law went into effect. This drove a lot of shops out of business since they couldn't afford to fork up the cash up front. Other states have proposed wholesale taxes as high as 90 percent on vaping products.

Like the movie said, the states have gotten so reliant on the MSA money, and with many of them selling away the rights to the MSA money through bonds, it hurts them directly in the wallet if people stop smoking. This is why they want to treat vaping as tobacco products and hopefully get them included in the MSA so they can get a cut from the sales of vaping products as well.

 

[Chakris]

I just finished watching "A Billion Lives" and thought it was quite well done. However, now I feel ill as I drank too much coffee while watching it. LOL
A Billion Lives

 

[JoeMischief]

There s very little awareness or concern among my coworkers who vape. My read of retailers is they are not raising the ban issue with customers because they fear scaring them off. I visit a few vape shops in my area occaisionally to see how they are doing. Compared to 2 years ago they are dead. May be there are too many shops here but may be mail order is killing them too. I'm in Michigan which has no state level laws about vaping. There is very little ecig press by Michigan news media. I suspect the fun will start when vapers can't get the products they rely on.

I fear you may well be right. I think we have to be proactive or no one will. With the TPD changes over here prices on the compliant stuff is rocketing and people will start to get a shock when the products they use are withdrawn, disappear as they aren't viable or rise exponentially in price. Hence why I don't see things as being quite over yet. We have a history over here of the popular masses realising what the hell has been done in their names by their elected officials too late and then having a good old fashioned uprising... I have a fondness for your plight over there. Most of the info that has helped me has been from American YouTubers etc and I watch Ryan Hall at RKHTV with interest to see the plight of his Kentucky stores...

 

[JoeMischief]

The FDA will most likely eventually affect vapers in Canada ... I'm just not one of them as I have everything to continue my vape style for 20+ years.

The propaganda against Vaping will never ease up ... as I mentioned, ABL had a shot pre FDA.


Sent via iPhone

Declare war on them. We'll send troops to fight and repel from your borders. What the hell has the FDA got any business dictating what Canadians do!?!??

We've done the same. I just bought a stack of kit to build coils and we measure our liquid reserves in litres now. We got some great deals as over here max quantity sold must be 10ml. That'll barely fill my tanks twice!!! Some of the liquids we like have already gone up by a third!

Admittedly we may have missed a trick by leaving it to non vaping film makers to come in a little too late for this battle, but now we have a massive piece of propaganda ourselves. The fact they have been brave enough to release this independent unbiased assessment with no hidden agenda gives us a hugely powerful tool to fight back with.

 

[JoeMischief]

Outside of the FDA, the real fear is legislation in the various states. The vaping industry got decimated in Pennsylvania when the state passed a 40 percent tax. The problem is the tax is assessed on the inventory that a store has in stock, not what is sold. So if a shop had $100,000 in unsold inventory of mods, tanks, RDA's, coils, juice, they needed to write a check to the state for $40,000 the day the law went into effect. This drove a lot of shops out of business since they couldn't afford to fork up the cash up front. Other states have proposed wholesale taxes as high as 90 percent on vaping products.

Like the movie said, the states have gotten so reliant on the MSA money, and with many of them selling away the rights to the MSA money through bonds, it hurts them directly in the wallet if people stop smoking. This is why they want to treat vaping as tobacco products and hopefully get them included in the MSA so they can get a cut from the sales of vaping products as well.

Watching A Billion Lives made me glad to live here in the UK. I've always fancied the States as a place to live. Have had a lot of American friends and just this underlying feeling I'd be a success there. Odd maybe? Maybe it's just the lure of individual States that have sunshine! However as much as we accept corruption, hideous motives, greed and a lack of innovative thinking in our officials and politicians what you guys are about to go through is worse than TPD in Europe. I don't know why you put up with it.

It wouldn't take much for them to see if they didn't punish it early doors and thought a little more long term than immediate excessive legislation taxes etc that the vaping industry could be a real golden goose. And LONG term. The cigarette industry is on a countdown.

 

[JoeMischief]

I just finished watching "A Billion Lives" and thought it was quite well done. However, now I feel ill as I drank too much coffee while watching it. LOL
A Billion Lives

I see who you are. You're from big Pharma or big alcohol. This is an attack on coffee with marketing like the State of California did.
The war on coffee!!!
#StillDrinkingAndDriving
Joking aside, some of the statistics are astonishing. Well done for watching the movie. The more the merrier!

 

[90VG]

I watched it and paid the $10. It was good, but the Winston man talked for about half of it, IIRC.

 

[Steamer861]

The FDA will most likely eventually affect vapers in Canada

I don't see how thats going to happen? We are Canadians we have our own regulatory agencies!
I don't see how the FDA has any jurisdiction here!

 

[90VG]

I don't see how thats going to happen? We are Canadians we have our own regulatory agencies!
I don't see how the FDA has any jurisdiction here!

It's the issue of "Monkey see, Monkey do"

 

[Steamer861]

It's the issue of "Monkey see, Monkey do"

No! we just passed our own regulations on Vaping & there nothing like the Deeming!
We took a more common sense approach, not a destroy the whole industry approach so BT can take over!

 

[sofarsogood]

I fear you may well be right. I think we have to be proactive or no one will. With the TPD changes over here prices on the compliant stuff is rocketing and people will start to get a shock when the products they use are withdrawn, disappear as they aren't viable or rise exponentially in price. Hence why I don't see things as being quite over yet. We have a history over here of the popular masses realising what the hell has been done in their names by their elected officials too late and then having a good old fashioned uprising... I have a fondness for your plight over there. Most of the info that has helped me has been from American YouTubers etc and I watch Ryan Hall at RKHTV with interest to see the plight of his Kentucky stores...

The controlling influence on the controversy everywhere, including the UK is the tax money and the people who benefit from that money. The tobacco companies can invest their capital in other things. The beneficiiaries of tax handouts have no funding alternatiives. May be the British are a little more civilized than the rest of us. My theory about the Brits is you have a moral authority presiding over public discourse. If you say really stupid stuff you're insulting the Queen. There is nothing like that in the US. I believe what will defeat the anti vaping folks is when their interference creates more troouble than it's worth. No matter what Trump or State governments do or don't do I'm going to be self sufficient for at least 10 years, may be 20 if things work better than planned. The cost of doing that is what I used too spend for a couple of months of smoking.

In the US nearly all the whiners about ecigs are tax supported, mostly NGO's. It is not a coincidence. It is a conflict of interest.

 

[JoeMischief]

I watched it and paid the $10. It was good, but the Winston man talked for about half of it, IIRC.

I kinda liked him. Was probably quite brave of him to do what he did back then. Amazed he didn't just 'disappear'...

My uncle did the same campaign in the 60s for another big cigarette brand. May have even been Winston... Ironically he died of cancer at 47.

 

[WillyZee]

I don't see how thats going to happen? We are Canadians we have our own regulatory agencies!
I don't see how the FDA has any jurisdiction here!

even before the FDA deeming regs (I never said the FDA will have jurisdiction in Canada, you are only assuming that) ... Health Canada has already laid out harsher restrictions on nicotine before the FDA deeming.

the only way vendors actually have eLiquid with nicotine in Canada ... they are flying under the radar and smuggling it into Canada.

There is no way the nicotine smuggling into Canada continues long term ... when the final FDA hammer drops in the USA ... Canada will follow suit on enforcement.

Don't be surprised one day when eLiquid with nicotine becomes very hard to find in Canada.

Health Canada has only been turning a blind eye for the last 5 years.

It's interesting how people think Canada could somehow become a global supplier of nicotine eLiquid after the final FDA regs are complete.