A germ-killing vapor

[bishybob]

Something else the original post makes me wonder...
If PG is antibacterial. Wouldn't that help bad breath? Isn't a lot of bad breath is caused by bacteria. Also if it kills viruses... It could prevent herpes and cold sores. Also sinus infections. Just make sure to exhale the vapor out of your nose.

 

[kramerica2]

To tell you the truth, the PG being a germicide concerns me much more than if it didn't do anything. Even if we assume that it doesn't kill any friendly bacteria, I think that it must weaken our immune system. It's like being 100% of the time in a sterile environment. What do you think will happen the second you'll go outside? This also might be the case if for any reason we'll stop e-smoking.....

 

[windblown]

Has anyone checked their ph levels lately?

For the last few years, I have kept a roll of ph test tape on hand, and frequently do a check of acid/alkaline levels .

Since I began e-smoking, an oral ph check has consistently measured in the extreme alkaline range of the scale. Prior to e-smoking, it was usually on the acidic end. I also tested a PG-based e-liquid by itself....it was in the neutral range.

Somewhere along the way, the neutral PG appears to be transforming into alkaline saliva.

If it is true that viruses cannot live in an alkaline environment, and if e-smoking is causing the alkaline ph tests, then......heck, wish I'd stayed awake during chemistry class.

 

[apachedug]

I spent a good hour last night reading this entire thread, and while all the talk about glycol was encouraging, there's been somethiing I've been wondering about since Day 1;

Is the glycol from these carts building up residue in our lungs like the tar from cigarettes?

I feel fairly safe that it's not cancerous, but that's not my concern; for awhile after I quit cigarettes, I was (excuse my bluntness) coughing up some junk. Then it stopped...

But 3 weeks later, and I am doing the occasional 'coughing up junk' again. I'm just wondering if its my lungs in another stage of self-cleaning after 29 years of smoking, or am I accumulating some type of gel down there?

Anyone else wonder or worry about this? Or have any clue?

 

[phylo]

I spent a good hour last night reading this entire thread, and while all the talk about glycol was encouraging, there's been somethiing I've been wondering about since Day 1;

Is the glycol from these carts building up residue in our lungs like the tar from cigarettes?

I feel fairly safe that it's not cancerous, but that's not my concern; for awhile after I quit cigarettes, I was (excuse my bluntness) coughing up some junk. Then it stopped...

But 3 weeks later, and I am doing the occasional 'coughing up junk' again. I'm just wondering if its my lungs in another stage of self-cleaning after 29 years of smoking, or am I accumulating some type of gel down there?

Anyone else wonder or worry about this? Or have any clue?

That is a good question! Has anyone else had the same behavior? I personally have not after over 4 months of using my e-cigs daily and only having the very occasional cigarette.

Phil

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

Every now and then I get a snotty nose. Back in the day I'd have put that down to catarrh, but not now. Probably a summer cold. But we're hoping PG will knock that on it's ..., right?

Mystified Emp

 

[DeviLFisH]

I feel the effect of overdose?PG which cause lactic acid build up?

cos I found myself not strength on workout .

 

[TropicalBob]

Emp: Colds are caused by rhinoviruses, and I didn't see them listed in the research papers. Pneumonia, yes; influenza, yes; colds, who knows.

My correspondence with Dr. Laugesen continues, with the recent focus on whether propylene glycol is most effective as a gas, vapor, mist or aerosol. The differences would be size of the droplets. From the research, the vapor form appears to be best. And that's how we get it. We also get it in saturated form (a fog), with a concentration sufficient to kill bacteria. Note in one reference how the delivery system used in 1941 resembles our atomizers!

I highlighted some material in two research papers for Dr. Laugesen and will post links to the papers here (moved them to my old Web site). Just scan for the yellow highlights and read them. Also, if you haven't seen the photos, go to the very bottom of the first linked page and check out what happened when bacteria were exposed to PG vapor.

http://www.karr-tv.com/pgvapor2.pdf
http://www.karr-tv.com/PGvapor.pdf

 

[Nazareth]

antibiotics don't help colds- but not sure about germicidals, it would seem that it owuld, but not sure?

also devilfish- stop worrying yourself- you're goign to have a nervous breakdown- lactic acidosis is a very rare issue- the chances of it happening are very low- you most likely were just having an off day

 

[Nazareth]

Every now and then I get a snotty nose. Back in the day I'd have put that down to catarrh, but not now. Probably a summer cold. But we're hoping PG will knock that on it's ..., right?

Mystified Emp

PG and soem Zircam in the nose at first sign of cold- stuff works great

 

[Ryle]

Not to be negative but I thought that I'd share that I found this.. isn't much but I didn't see this information posted anywhere on here.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Propylene Glycol[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A cosmetic form of mineral oil found in automatic brake and hydraulic fluid and industrial antifreeze. In the skin and hair, propylene glycol works as a humescent, which causes retention of moisture content of skin or cosmetic products by preventing the escape of moisture or water. The Material Safety Data Sheet warns users to avoid skin contact with propylene glycol as this strong skin irritant can cause liver abnormalities and kidney damage.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Known health effects.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Eye irritation, skin irritation, skin drying, defatting. Ingestion has serious health effects similar to above.[/FONT]

 

[katink]

Known and posted, debated about and afaik all looked at Ryle, sorry. Would have been a find with a need to investigate further if it hadn't been though
Some of the above examples also can be using polypropylene-glycol by the way, and that is quite a different cup of tea then propyleen-glycol (don't ever use the poly-version for anything related to e-smoking..)

 

[karenwest1961]

Forget it T-Bo. I've got a bad chest cold right AND a head cold right now. Damned PG didn't do anything for me. Hubby had it first. I vaped my ... off...got it anyway. Bummer.

 

[Ruby]

What about the good bacteria?
Seems like PG is not going to be selective.
And if it is causing an alkaline environment in the mouth and making saliva alkaline how does this effect the enzymes in the saliva?
Could it have a knock on effect on the digestive tract?
Mind you, some believe a more alkaline environment in the digestive tract is a good thing. I don't know. Just having pre e-cigs worries which is rich considering I'm currently sliding down the real cig slope.

Might be an idea to supplement with some good mouth bacteria and some other type of acidophilus capsules if one's stomach seems gripey.
Udo's choice sells one that replenishes the friendly bugs in the mouth, it's called Super 5 oral health. Not cheap, but might be worth using it on & off.

 

[Kate]

Welcome to the forum Ruby. Are you saying that there are good bacteria in our mouths and respiratory tract that might be getting killed off with propylene glycol vapour? I was thinking this might be the case but wasn't sure if the friendly bacteria were only in our guts.

I think I read somewhere that pg was alkaline in vapour but I'm not certain.

That's good for teeth because it neutralises the acid that demineralise teeth and feeds bad bacteria, it gives our teeth more chance to naturally re mineralise. Saliva does the same thing.

How an alkaline vapour affects bronchial tubes and lungs I don't know. I also don't know about the digestive tract except to say that I get heartburn type symptoms sometimes when using pg vapour (but it could be to do with higher nicotine).

People have also reported bubbly stomachs and dry throats. Some of us get irritated throats and coughs but we don't know if that's to do with pg, flavourings or nicotine.

I think pg does have advantages but in smaller doses than we tend to inhale. I mix mine with glycerine, I think it's still concentrated enough to have the 'germ killing' properties without other negative effects.

Could you please post links to the supplements you think might be beneficial? Thanks.

 

[karenwest1961]

Hey Ryle...we already know PG can probably kill yer .... But we still vape it like we still smoked cigarettes knowing it could probably give us lung cancer.

So the subject, is it a germ killing vapor? Maybe...probably not. Just answered that two posts back. Not the cold or flu germ for sure. My husband was eat up with it last week. Now, I've got the cold from hell. My chest hurts so bad I can't even vape right now. There was no prevention there. Just a dryer throat to add to the germ I got. Vaping irritates it more. So I'll be chewing nicotine gum til this thing goes away.

And germs that cause bad breath? Don't kill those either. I just woke up and killed the plants.

It's a nice thought here, but I think this is another one to cross off our lists.

 

[Ruby]

Thanks for the welcome Kate.
I tried to post the urls but I got a stop on my post saying we can only do this if we have posted more than 15 posts. So thought I'd just clip it out the relevant bit off the link I found on google.

Quote:
'L. salivarius is most abundant in the mouth and gums (hence its scientific name), but it is also flourishes in the lining of the small intestine. It is important in helping to normalize the flora of the gut, especially in those with chronic bowel conditions. In one study printed in the American Journal of Gastroenterology (1998), only L. salivarius, and not L. casei or L. acidophilus, was able to produce high amounts of lactic acid and completely inhibited the growth of H. pylori in a mixed culture. '

Again was unable to post a link for it but if you google 'Udo Erasmus' you'll find his website. Look for the link: Prebiotics & you'll find the 'Super oral 5 Health Probiotic'.

I use this Udo's supplement quite a lot (got a big intestinal surgery going on)and it is chewable and not bad tasting. Just got a bottle yesterday - £14.99, but it lasts quite a long time as I use it on & off. Some health stores in the UK stock it in the fridge sections.

Found your reference to 'bubbly' stomachs interesting I deffo find if my good gut bugs are on the decline (due to my surgery) my stomach bubbles a lot. Those bubbling noises are called Borborygmus...seriously. I dose myself with a good brand of acidophilus and it is sorted out pretty fast. Still, might not be the reason why this happens to some e-smokers...but worth thinking about I suppose, if it happens to one often enough to be annoying.

Probably best to just take it last thing at night before bed. It might coat the throat too & help irritation.

Kate - I know this is OT but I feel silly posting it as a seperate thread incase it is a silly question. Please could you tell me if a glycerine based juice yields the same or less vapour than a pg based one? Plus - are you topping up carts with glycerine or am I getting all confused again ... Thanks.

 

[TropicalBob]

Karen, in the research it was never mentioned that PG killed rhinoviruses, the little devils behind the common cold. Pneumonia? Yes. Tuberculosis? Yes. A cold? No mention so it probably has no effect.

Take two aspirin and post me in the morning.

 

[Kate]

Thanks very much for the information Ruby, that's pretty interesting stuff. I haven't had a chance to take it all in just yet but wanted to get back here about your question re. glycerine.

Some members of the forum use vegetable glycerine to make vapour instead of propylene glycol. There seem to be pros and cons to each, you might want to check some of the discussions here to draw your own conclusions on which is best for you.

Vegetable glycerine produces good vapour, more than pg according to some people. It's certainly not thought of as inferior in that regard.

I mix my own juice to top off cartridges and drip. You probably could use vg neat but you would get no flavour or nicotine. Some of us make juice by diluting ready made high nicotine eliquid with vg and flavourings. There is much less pg that way. Others extract their own nicotine juice from tobacco to mix with vg and sometimes flavourings. This board might help you find out more if you want to mix your own - DIY e-liquid - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

If there's anything else you want to know, just ask. All the best.

 

[karenwest1961]

Karen, in the research it was never mentioned that PG killed rhinoviruses, the little devils behind the common cold. Pneumonia? Yes. Tuberculosis? Yes. A cold? No mention so it probably has no effect.

Take two aspirin and post me in the morning.

I'd probably get better faster if I had a hot doctor.