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About Low Resistance and Specific batteries

Discussion in 'MadVapes' started by hoogie76, Oct 5, 2010.

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  1. hoogie76

    hoogie76 Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2009
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Hi folks, we've been seeing some failures with eGo, vGo and 016 batteies and low resistance atomizers/cartomizers.

    The problem appears to me to be a compatibilty issue between certain batteries and atomizers.

    Low resistance atomizers are meant to simulate a higher voltage device on a 3.7 volt device but there are limitations.

    Low Resistance atomizers are never meant to be used with 5 volts as the wattage and current draw will be excessive as well as the atomizers/cartomizers will not last very long due to the heat produced at 5 volts. Low resistance atomizers should never be used with a 5 volt passthrough.

    We're finding also that low resistance atomizers/cartomizers are causing pre-mature failures on eGo, vGo, 016 or other mosfet driven batteries. Mosfet driven devices are designed to work with 2.5 ohm or higher atomizers/cartomizers.

    As an industry we sell products but can't control how they are used. eGo, vGo, 016, regular e-cig batteries and similar devices all have short circuit protection but do not account for excessive current draw which eventually weakens the components and causes failure.

    A shorted cartomizer/atomizer *should* never cause a battery to fail due to the short circuit protection of the device (including protected batteries on mods). The only other states that an atomizer or cartomizer can have is that the actual resistance is either correct or the device has burnt out which would give an infinite resistance.

    Shorted atomizers are actually a very rare occurance unless manufactured incorrectly.

    What this means is that we can't blame a specific product for a failure. It's a combination of incompatible products that's causing premature failure of components.

    The main problem is really lack of clear guidelines on use of the products and compatibilty issues.

    Unfortunately low resistance devices are here and they screw in, so people will continue to use them, sometimes with undesirable results.

    Just want folks to understand that low resistance atomizers/cartomizers are not defective but are sometimes being used beyond the scope of what they were meant for.

    Most devices other than battery mods do not come with LR atomizers/Cartomizers as a kit. As the failures pile up, I think we'll see more warnings/guidelines with low-resistance atomizers/cartomizers and mosfet driven batteries in the near future.

    just food for thought..

    hoog
     
  2. dale1962

    dale1962 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Location:
    Charlotte,NC
    Hoog,Just started direct dripping here recently and I have a 750 mah riva at 4.2-3.7 volts range and bought a couple of your low res atties and working great so far on this...the voltage on the riva is not to high for low res atties is it?It probably at it's highest voltage for short time anyway.
     
  3. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Location:
    Outside of the Philadelphia Burbs, NJ & Fla
    Dale,

    As Hoogie states the LR Atty draws more current an therefor Mosfit type Batts are more stressed using them with this LR set up, LR draws double the current then a regular Atty in which these types of Batteries are made for and therefore you will see more failure on these types of batteries then a standard Mod say with an 18650 AW Batt running it, Bottom line is your Batt Ego/Riva Batt will run your LR Atty but don't expect it to last forever. In regards to that I must have 40 Rive/Ego Batts, some have lasted a abnormal amount of time others have hit the grave yard early, they are only Batteries and who knows how long one will last is the bottom line, many think because it is an ecig it should last forever but it's only a Battery.If your looking for longevity running the LR Atty's I would find a Mod that holds a nice IMR AW 18650 Batt in it.
     
  4. dale1962

    dale1962 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Location:
    Charlotte,NC
    I hear ya man,just a little confused definately don't expect batt to last forever but wish it would(haha),LR atty's are to be used with higher voltage or with something in 3.7 range?Probably stupid question just not battery or electronic savvy.Also doe's madvapes carry a mod with specifications you suggest to use with LR atty?
     
  5. dale1962

    dale1962 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Location:
    Charlotte,NC
    Just went on website and I think I may have 510 spare atty anyway,which says has higher resistence...also seen on site about what voltage you use with LR atty's....Hell I just don't know what a mosfit type batt is.My order say's I got 2 510 spare atties but i can't tell the difference between them and the LR atties on the site by picture,so not sure what i have because got them at there shop and i thought they said the one's i got are LR.Don't want to kill my batts prematurely if don't have too!
     
  6. bsoplinger

    bsoplinger Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Location:
    Capitol District New York
    Bottom line here seems to say use LR atomizers on 'standard' battery mods. That is anything that takes a 10440, 14500, 18650, 16340, etc but not any sort of 'regular' battery be it the standard 510, 901, 801 or 808D-1 battery or the extra capacity versions of these like the eGo, Riva, Hello-016 etc. Do I have that right?
     
  7. VPJUNKIE510

    VPJUNKIE510 Moved On ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    what are the lr for if not for those devices i was also told not to use it with the standard 510 kit either
     
  8. J-ShaZzle

    J-ShaZzle Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Location:
    South NJ
    Been using a Riva with many different vendor LR atties with no shorts of the batteries. I have had LR atties die quickly (within a week), but find that Eastmall atties last forever.

    If someone is experiencing failures with the Ego/vgo/016; my suggestion is to try the Riva w/ Eastmall Lr atties.

    I did have a Riva battery die on me, but I highly doubt it had anything to do with the LR atties. I am constantly switching between 2 batteries and use one while the other charges. I have received a free replacement and haven't.experienced any other problems. Even when I was forced to deal with one battery for almost 2 weeks. It is my belief that if LR atties were the cause of my failure then it would have became apparent when I was using just one battery straight.

    I have only experienced one brand of LR cartomizers and they also did not short nor did the battery fail.
     
  9. Bageone

    Bageone Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Explains why all my Riva, Ego and 016 batteries went Kaput on me... :)
     
  10. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Location:
    Outside of the Philadelphia Burbs, NJ & Fla
    for those that still dont get it the LR draws 2amps the reg Atty draws 1 amp these mosfet Batts are being over stressed with the 2amp draw, will they still work, heck ya, but they are being over stressed with the 2 amp draw compared to the 1 amp draw, therefor they will not last as long as say an 18650 IMR Batt.
     
  11. tardcore

    tardcore Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Location:
    pittsburgh, pa
    i can definitely attest to lr attys shortening the life of batteries. when i first started using LR's (510s and now 306's) on my 016, it would last me ALL day, and usually most of the next day if i wasn't able to charge it (or forgot to). now, only a week or 2 later, i'm not using it more than i was and it's only lasting me maybe a full day, sometimes less. thank goodness my first mod is in the mail right now! 18650, here i come!
     
  12. dale1962

    dale1962 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Location:
    Charlotte,NC
    I do get it now but like I said not to electronically gifted...what I should have originally asked was if I had a LR or standard atty.Reason I don't know is because bought at shop and tried a bigger atty first didn't like hit on that one and the guy's their I thought(I may be wrong) said get him a LR one and really liked that one,so that's the one's I bought but then got home and on my order it said 510 spare atty and since just started using atomizers I don't know the difference(other than the amp draw now) between a standard or LR.Anyway to tell them apart by just looking at them?Is one bigger than the other?I'm a noobie all over again...
     
  13. DigDreams

    DigDreams Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2009
    Location:
    Oldsmar, FL
    I just lost two brand new Ego batteries and a 5v passthrough to LR cartos, so I can attest that this is true. In my case all three were dead within a few days of using the LR's so I wouldn't say it shortens their life, I would say it kills them outright.

    Right off one of my batteries and the passthrough would randomly not work and just blink with the LR's attached, but the other battery worked fine.... Until it turned on by itself and melted the carto. The other battery started geting "stuck on" as well, then the passthrough started getting "stuck on" as well, then they both outright died.

    I was using the Bauway 1.7ohm cartos.
     
  14. _TJ_

    _TJ_ Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Location:
    SE Ohio in the sticks
    Wow, first I heard about this.
    We have always been told +450 mah for lr atties, 3.7 volts obviously ;) because the regular-sized batteries can't provide what the atty is drawing. Drain rates and whatnot.
    Now it's not true? Well still true, but more stuff?
     
  15. bsoplinger

    bsoplinger Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Location:
    Capitol District New York
    I've always used the rule of thumb that LR atomizers need IMR (high drain) batteries. So I'd never try one on any 'normal' style extra big battery like an eGo or Riva or Hello-016 but that was just me. Now seems like I had a good idea.
     
  16. Vaporologist

    Vaporologist Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Location:
    Epic Journey
    Bottom line is that LR atties should not be used with pretty much most batteries available to us. The ones which have the appropriate continuous maximum discharge rate to feed the amp draw of LR atties are AW16340 IMR, AW14500 IMR, AW17670 and almost any 18650 and bigger battery.
     
  17. MaxUT

    MaxUT Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Location:
    Ogden, UT, US
    I've been using only LR attys on eGo batteries since April 1st and no problems so far. My wife has been using only LRs since June 2nd.

    The eGos were from Janty and purchased in March, maybe there's a difference in the quality of the electronics between these and others produced later.
     
  18. jcamacho

    jcamacho Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Location:
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    I was told that that the Ego and Hello's were high drain batteries. Anyone have some factual knowledge of this? That would also include the Rivas.
     
  19. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Location:
    Outside of the Philadelphia Burbs, NJ & Fla
    Ego & Riva are a Mosfet set up lion Batt not high drain
     
  20. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
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    It's all in the amp draw guys, again the LR draws around 2 amp & a regular Atty draws around 1amp, so what happens is a regular battery is being overstressed drawing 2 amps and is made more for a 1 amp draw. IMR Batteries like the Orange AW18650 IMR ar best for the LR Attys and the AW IC works well too, I prefer the IMR best. So again, when you are using an Ego.Riva it really has nothing to do with mAh it has to do with the battery chemistry, the IMR can handle the 2amp draw better and is not stressed like a regular battery and is made for just this, so your Ego/Riva Batts will work, heck any battery will work but you are over stressing them and therefore they will not last as long
     
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