ALL ABOUT E-LIQUIDS

[DaveP]

Propylene---*not* "polyethylene"--- glycol. Got it!
All those chemical-words are like chinese algebra to me.
So it's vegetable glycerine and propylene glycol. There's a lot of carbon in those molecules, no?

If you've seen hospital patients getting a "breathing treatment" It's Propylene Gycol that creates the vapor to carry medication into the lungs. It does the same with nicotine and flavors for vapers. If you want to be concerned about components of ecig vapor the worst offender could be flavors if you don't check them out for Diacetyl (buttered popcorn flavor) and several other ingredients you don't want in your lungs, but nicotine, PG, and VG aren't the chief offenders.

 

[Alien Traveler]

It looks like @90VG tried water successfully (a yesterday thread):
VG vs PG

 

[90VG]

It works, no cloud though. It satisfies me, so whatever. Spits a lot. But it's better than smoking. Plus no cloud is cool when stealthing.

 

[Torturedzen]

I don't want to inhale polyaromatic hydrocarbons... blah blah blah

Ok so you don't want to put anything unhealthy into your lungs. That's fine. vaping in general is unhealthy. Our lungs are not intended to have anything whatsoever put in them, other than the air we need to breathe. And even the air in some areas is questionable in terms of healthy. You express concerns about inhaling certain things yet you also want to put some form of liquid nicotine into your lungs, which is unhealthy no matter how you look at it. If you're THAT concerned about your lungs/health then why vape at all?
Maybe I'm missing something here but if you're gonna vape, do it the recognized proper way. Or just don't do it!

 

[Karl Childers]

Ok so you don't want to put anything unhealthy into your lungs. That's fine. Vaping in general is unhealthy. Our lungs are not intended to have anything whatsoever put in them, other than the air we need to breathe. And even the air in some areas is questionable in terms of healthy. You express concerns about inhaling certain things yet you also want to put some form of liquid nicotine into your lungs, which is unhealthy no matter how you look at it. If you're THAT concerned about your lungs/health then why vape at all?
Maybe I'm missing something here but if you're gonna vape, do it the recognized proper way. Or just don't do it!

 

[Karl Childers]

What you're "missing" is that right now I'm smoking a cigarette (the Humphrey Bogart kind), and I want to move toward a
safer nicotine-delivery vehicle (something short of actually DRINKING nicotine).
I don't want propylene glycol or vegetable
glycerol to be the solvent/aerosol. I want water to be the solvent/aerosol. I understand nicotine is at least partially-soluble in water. So it's just a matter of titrating the nicotine dosage with an appropriate quantity of water, right? [edited]

 

[Karl Childers]

It works, no cloud though. It satisfies me, so whatever. Spits a lot. But it's better than smoking. Plus no cloud is cool when stealthing.

"No cloud" is *very* cool. How do I get there?

 

[90VG]

Let me make a video from a fresh batch and coil. It's just water. It's not like normal vaping. Actually just wash your coil with water and try vaping it. It's not great, but it does work.

 

[MarkyD]

I don't want propylene glycol or vegetable
glycerol to be the solvent/aerosol.

Any nicotine you're likely to purchase is already solved with PG, VG or a combination thereof.
100mg/ml (10%) nicotine is 90% solvent. I wouldnt suggest messing with anything stronger. The idea of a totally PG/VG-free vape just isnt going to happen.

 

[90VG]

Yeah, I even tried with 10% nic base. It has a little PG in it, but it's minuscule.

 

[Capt.shay]

This is a very strange thread in so many different ways

 

[dannyv45]

This is very strange indeed. I understand the OP's goal but it's really impossible to get there. As mentioned you'll always have PG or VG in the mix. That's just the nature of commercially available NIC. The OP is asking is there a method of vaping that uses no or at least, the least amount of PG/VG, Has no harmful ingredients other then NIC and still deliver the NIC level he requires.
Yes you can vape NIC and water but it will produce a lousy vaping experience that gurgles, crackles, spits, floods and produces no vapor and may be to hot (Mostly steam) if high wattage is used. That's really it in a nut shell. Not much more to be offered here.

My personal opinion is if you vape Plain PG/VG/NIC, compared to what your doing now (Smoking cigarettes) then your far ahead of the game health wise and stand more of a chance of sticking with it then if you were to vape an unenjoyable water vape.

All I can say is try both, weight the facts and decide.

 

[OlderNDirt]

To me, what makes this thread strange:

What you're "missing" is that right now I'm smoking a cigarette (the Humphrey Bogart kind), and I want to move toward a
safer nicotine-delivery vehicle (something short of actually SLAMMING nicotine).

Simply put, just vaping unflavored PG/VG juice is "moving toward a safer nicotine-delivery system" by at least 95%. Your "wants" are accomplished within, at the most, 5%. But then:

I don't want propylene glycol or vegetable
glycerol to be the solvent/aerosol. I want water to be the solvent/aerosol. I understand nicotine is at least partially-soluble in water. So it's just a matter of titrating the nicotine dosage with an appropriate quantity of water, right? [edited]

If we are in fact dealing with that last 5%, I have seen nothing at all determining what portion of that 5% that may still be unhealthy attributed to the PG, VG, or nicotine. Presuming the majority of that 5% would be attributed to nicotine, that leaves an extremely minute portion attributed to PG and/or VG. How much is actually gained by the elimination of both?

I guess if one chooses to totally disregard the findings of The Royal College of Physicians and needs to achieve a 100% safety level, stop smoking cold turkey. And don't suck on hard candy or chew gum cause that may also reduce your 100% safety factor.

 

[dannyv45]

It kinda reminds me of the 100% VG vape debates. You can debate it all day long and you'll still never vape 100% VG

 

[Karl Childers]

This is a very strange thread in so many different ways

Didn't mean to "go rogue", but water vapor is ALREADY in my lungs, no problem, so why not use it as the nicotine carrier, rather than VG or PG ( whose health effects--as an inhalant-- must certainly be worse than plain water ) ?

 

[DaveP]

I think this has already been said in similar terms, but nic is CUT with PG and or VG to reduce its potency so that we CAN vape it. The 10% nic mentioned is 90% some combination of PG and or VG. It's also 100mg/ml nic and it's TOO POTENT to vape safely without cutting it. It's what we add in milligram quantities to make an entire bottle of juice.

So, the PG/VG is already in the nic. You can't vape pure nic without serious consequences (including death) and mixing it with water and trying to vape it will likely just cause steam scalding if you actually want water vapor to be created. We've all felt the effects of steam on skin.

I don't see how there wouldn't be a carrier involved in a vapable solution that works in an atomizer.

 

[DaveP]

When you burn polyethylene glycol it decomposes and turns into something ELSE. Something carcinogenic and unhealthful. When you burn vegetable glycerine it decomposes and turns into something ELSE. Something carcinogenic and unhealthful.

That only happens if you vape it at very high temperatures. Normal vaping doesn't create the harmful components in the vapor. We generally vape Propylene Glycol, not polyethylene glycol (PEG). PEG is the one that CAN be dangerous if the temperature is too high, so we don't use it.

Check out this thread by Rolygate (forum manager). If Acrolein or other products of combustion are produced in an ecig, you'll gag and put it down.
Glycerine vapor and acrolein - the issues

 

[Alien Traveler]

Didn't mean to "go rogue", but water vapor is ALREADY in my lungs, no problem, so why not use it as the nicotine carrier, rather than VG or PG ( whose health effects--as an inhalant-- must certainly be worse than plain water ) ?

Vaping water-based juice, as already was told, is unpleasant experience.
You'd better start with usual vaping, VG/PG based. First thing first: get rid of cigarettes. Then you experiment with water. Starting with water will just kill you desire to vape.

 

[Karl Childers]

I think this has already been said in similar terms, but nic is CUT with PG and or VG to reduce its potency so that we CAN vape it. The 10% nic mentioned is 90% some combination of PG and or VG. It's also 100mg/ml nic and it's TOO POTENT to vape safely without cutting it. It's what we add in milligram quantities to make an entire bottle of juice.

So, the PG/VG is already in the nic. You can't vape pure nic without serious consequences (including death) and mixing it with water and trying to vape it will likely just cause steam scalding if you actually want water vapor to be created. We've all felt the effects of steam on skin.

I don't see how there wouldn't be a carrier involved in a vapable solution that works in an atomizer.

Hmmm, Ive never heard of nicotine in distilled water. Hopefully someone here has and knows where to get it. Is this because you dont trust the PG or VG based nicotines?

Hmmm, Ive never heard of nicotine in distilled water. Hopefully someone here has and knows where to get it. Is this because you dont trust the PG or VG based nicotines?

 

[Karl Childers]

Hmmm, Ive never heard of nicotine in distilled water. Hopefully someone here has and knows where to get it. Is this because you dont trust the PG or VG based nicotines?

I am not sure what health effects there are from inhaling thermally-decomposed propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin.
What are the B.P.'s of PG and VG (respectively)? And what are the respective molecules' "decomposition points" ?