And another one

[defdock]

So... Apple and Samsung for cell phones, all people who sell flashlights, toys, etc. etc. should tell all the problems that could happen using batteries or they're being 'irresponsible'?
.

Apple don't use replaceable batteries, but it is required for proper labeling on all "replaceable batteries", if you look close enough at a Samsung battery all the info is there on the wrapper including danger warnings

Take a look at even regular aa batteries, the package they come in have a label also. " warning: do not install backwards, charge, short circuit, put in fire, or mix with other battery types - may explode or leak causing injury. Replace all batteries at the same time"





Just another "point it out", the info is so common that people don't think or remember about it because its always in their face, so they look over it.

The device is what it is, the batteries are what's dangerous, and it's always overlooked and blamed on the device.

 

[zoiDman]

You can almost always see examples of "great" "should" and "required" in all of the thread types that you mentioned. There are definitely more greats, fewer shoulds, and even less requireds, but they're all almost always there. Maybe people are learning to temper their reactions. Maybe people are learning that actions should be fully thought out to their consequences. Perhaps it is a product of many of our concerns being turned against us.

I can only hope that vapers are becoming more self aware.

I Dunno? Hard to say What is What sometimes.

Or what Truly effects what is going to Happen anyway.

 

[defdock]

At this point, the dissasociation with the underlying cause is whats at hand.

If vaping gets banned - cooked food should be banned, too many chefs who cut themselfs and bleed because they used the knife wrong to prepare my food.
Or because someone forgot to use an oven mitt when pulling out my brownies, ovens and sweets should be banned.

 

[Kent C]

Apple don't use replaceable batteries,

Doesn't matter - the point was about the vendor having to inform people of the possible hazards - regardless of what type of battery used. Just pointing out that no vendor of other products that uses batteries does that or is it considered 'irresponsible' (by most) if they don't. Yet with ecigs some think it is. I understand how it might behoove someone selling hybrids and I know my local shops do that and don't take someone's word for it that they 'know all about them' but I'm sure not all local shop clerks do that. But on other stuff (not hybrids) it isn't as necessary, although some will still inform their customers as to amp limits, etc. Many like to demonstrate their knowledge - even when the customer doesn't really care.

 

[Kent C]

There are definitely more greats, fewer shoulds, and even less requireds, but they're all almost always there. Maybe people are learning to temper their reactions. Maybe people are learning that actions should be fully thought out to their consequences. Perhaps it is a product of many of our concerns being turned against us.

This is a great summation - and the reason why I post - to show how 'shoulds' and 'requires' come back at you - start the slippery slope and attempt to give alternative thinking along the lines of what a truly free market can achieve (that can get 'political') and has achieved here at ECF and I'm sure other forums as well. I've attempted to point out significant changes that have occurred here - with the accidents we've had, eGo burning the lady's floor, the Chuck incident, the whole Dangerous Carto thread and the good work that baditude and Mooch have done with batteries and I'm sure others in other threads where I haven't been.

 

[Brobdingnagian]

Often, it seems the most overlooked aspect tends to be the batteries and basic safety. I don't care how much my family or friends claim to know about battery safety; I will always repeat myself to ensure that these kinds of things don't happen. I know that not all of it is wasted effort, either, because now I've got some of them following my example.

That one time someone says, "Wait...what? I can't find my battery case...I'll just throw it in my pocket...I'll be fine till I get home." could be the next news report about an "e-cig related explosion", even if it was completely avoidable, let alone simply battery-related.

It's dangerous when you don't respect the power stored in such a tiny cell, no matter what you're using it in. To me, this demonstrates a lack of respect for chemistry in general.

I used nothing but stick batteries for quite some time until moving to a regulated device with a replaceable battery, and I legitimately felt safer for having finally done so. Some folks want a "set and forget" mode for vaping... I did not even treat my KGOs/eGo batteries in such a manner, and discontinued using them if they ever began behaving strangely or charging improperly.

Education is the only countermeasure to ignorance, but only for those willing to learn. A wise vendor would ask questions to confirm the knowledge of a new customer purchasing both a device and a battery. Heck, there are times I wonder if pairs of batteries shouldn't always be sold with a case included, just to be safe.

I know that if I knew nothing about batteries and got them inside of a case at time of purchase, the first thing I'd be looking up is "why are my 18650 batteries in a case"?

 

[Kent C]

Just another "point it out", the info is so common that people don't think or remember about it because its always in their face, so they look over it.

 

[Racehorse]

Is it the responsibility of the vendor to do the informing, personally, I don't think so.

Then why not just put vaping gear onto revolving self-serve pedastals with no employees behind the counter, let 'em pick out what they want to use?

In the Alberta case, from what I understand, (and I imagine this happens more often than not) the kid walked into store, and was sold this "combination".

I'm sure he never wondered if the 2 things "go together" safely?

How many new vapers would?

 

[skoony]

I don't care how much my family or friends claim to know about battery safety;

There are some on these forums that are quite knowledgeable and pass their
wisdom on which is good. I have no problems with sub ohming. My concern
is even the ones that know what they are doing seem to discount the fact
that when running batteries at the razor's edge of performance the inherent
risk is still there and, there will still be mishaps no mater what precautions
one takes. If everyone were to acknowledge and accept this it wouldn't be
the issue it is. I have said they should organize as other hobbyist have done
into clubs with training,dues,meetings,etc.. .
Regards
Mike

 

[Lessifer]

Then why not just put vaping gear onto revolving self-serve pedastals with no employees behind the counter, let 'em pick out what they want to use?

In the Alberta case, from what I understand, (and I imagine this happens more often than not) the kid walked into store, and was sold this "combination".

I'm sure he never wondered if the 2 things "go together" safely?

How many new vapers would?

I've never had any assistance from a store clerk when purchasing any of my vape gear. I seem to be doing alright.

Some vape store employees are very knowledgeable, some are just a paid body, I would not enter a store and "expect" either one to give me crucial information.

The last two news stories that I have seen have both definitely been some form of "sub" tank, but I have not been able to verify that the mod being used was a direct to battery connection type which has often been the problem. If it was the teen and the green mod, I have no idea what that is. If it was the slightly older guy and the brass looking mod, the side view of the top cap does not look like one of the faux hybrid caps.

The point of that last paragraph is, we don't know what went wrong. If you have more info, please share. Perhaps they repeatedly over drained the battery. Maybe they used a tc coil by accident. Maybe the battery wrap was torn. There are many possibilities as to why these things happened. Unless he walked out of a store with that exact setup, and the vendor themselves put a charged battery in, put the mod and atomizer together, and it exploded that day without him changing anything, I don't think the vendor can be blamed.

 

[MyMagicMist]

Like I said, I'm just not seeing a very large push by Vapers for Anybody to do Anything. Be it Vendors or the Government. And or be it Voluntary or by Regulation respectively.

And Yes. I do know what happens when "Great" turns into "Should" turns into "Be Required". But the progression from "Great" to "Should" to "Be Required" doesn't always happen. In Fact, it Seldom does.

Take something like ...

And the List goes On and On and On.

We're kinda like the News in a Lot of Ways. We pick up what is Current, Run Hot and Heavy with it, and then Someone New comes along and we move on to that.

There is also something to be said for flogging dead horses. Events, incidents do progress, resolve, solve or otherwise conclude and at that point there is no vested need to continue discussing the it of that moment. Continuing such discussion then becomes flogging a dead horse.

Not saying this is always the case. It does happen though. As @defdock points out issues become common knowledge that people over look it.

 

[MyMagicMist]

...
I know many on this forum that think the dangers from batteries are common sense. I can only assume they have a background in areas that make them think that.
...

A lot of us do share a background. It is as you say ... a background in common sense. We are inquisitive minds. We play out these kind of situations.

"Oh, this is new to me. I do not know about this. I will do what?"

A. "Find information about the new this."

B. "Pretend the new this is just so other that and hope it all blows over favorably."

C. "Look the other way and be filled with fear and hate about a new this."

Most of us will respond A. And then, we keep looking for further information, for experience and anecdotes regarding the new this. Why?

Well, asking questions stimulates a process called learning. That process aids in the process of surviving. If we learn, we may adapt, we may continue living, maybe even improve our quality of living. Once you understand that knowing to ask questions helps you learn, you have fairly well become as educated as you need to be.

If you doubt that, look up Henry Ford sometime. He knew enough to staff people who were experts and pros at different things. He had a box filled with buttons on his desk. If he needed information about tires, he pushed the button to call the tire guy and would then ask questions, listen, digest, ask more questions until he understood.

Henry Ford created Ford Motor Company. Henry Ford also only had a third grade public education. His journey in life relied upon simply asking questions. Granted not all of us are Henry Ford here, but we do recognize a good model.

 

[skoony]

Now that I have had a couple of cups of coffee another thing occurred to me.
Warranties. Here is a disclaimer I found after a quick google.
found here: BatterySpace.com/AA Portable Power Corp. Tel: 510-525-2328
Doesn't this pretty much get the manufacturer off the hook? Can or are the
hardware makers and retailers thinking they can hide behind this by assuming
if their battery explodes and the makers are not liable why should we be. After all
there was nothing wrong with our equipment when used correctly. how does one
get around such convoluted thinking?
Regards
Mike
"

• We are only responsible for the products we sell.We are NOT responsible for any damages and consequences damages by using our products."

 

[zoiDman]

Doesn't this pretty much get the manufacturer off the hook? Can or are the hardware makers and retailers thinking they can hide behind this by assuming
if their battery explodes and the makers are not liable why should we be. After all
there was nothing wrong with our equipment when used correctly. how does one
get around such convoluted thinking?
Regards
Mike
"

• We are only responsible for the products we sell.We are NOT responsible for any damages and consequences damages by using our products."

Short Answer: Not in all Cases.

Long Answer: http://www.productliabilitypreventi...rningLabelsAConundrumforEveryManufacturer.pdf

 

[skoony]

@zoiDman Thanks.
@Lessifer and et-al. I came across another article concerning the kid in Canada.
Here is a quote by the father.
"
Greer said the model of electronic cigarette his son purchased on his own is as large as a cigar and is popular because of the amount of vapour it produces.

The device his son used is called a Wotofo Phantom, he said. The company’s website says it is manufactured in China.
I would like to see these unregulated ones possibly banned,” Greer said. “It is horrific to see your kid with his face so burnt."
Exploding e-cigarette ‘lit my kid’s face on fire,’ Alberta dad says | Toronto Star
Regards
Mike

 

[Kent C]

The device his son used is called a Wotofo Phantom

The Phantom has both a standard and hybrid top - MFS's warning

Please note: The Phantom's optional hybrid top is an Atty-to-battery option for advanced users only. You must pair it with an adjustable center pin atomizer with long 510 threading! Do NOT use something like the Kanger SubTank / Subtank Plus / Subtank Mini / Subtank Nano or the Aspire Atlantis with this mod. These do not have adjustable threads and can cause the battery to fail and vent.

 

[skoony]

The Phantom has both a standard and hybrid top - MFS's warning

Please note: The Phantom's optional hybrid top is an Atty-to-battery option for advanced users only. You must pair it with an adjustable center pin atomizer with long 510 threading! Do NOT use something like the Kanger SubTank / Subtank Plus / Subtank Mini / Subtank Nano or the Aspire Atlantis with this mod. These do not have adjustable threads and can cause the battery to fail and vent.

Good job Kent! You're really good at this. I think you could make buku big bucks working
for a news outlet digging out out this informative background info. Your abilities would
change the way news is reported. Imagine getting news stories containing inciteful
information that the viewer/reading could use to have a more informative opinion
about the story without having to guess what actually happened. That would be a real
game changer in the news industry. I wonder why no one has thought of this before?

Mike

 

[Kent C]

Good job Kent! You're really good at this. I think you could make buku big bucks working
for a news outlet digging out out this informative background info. Your abilities would
change the way news is reported. Imagine getting news stories containing inciteful
information that the viewer/reading could use to have a more informative opinion
about the story without having to guess what actually happened. That would be a real
game changer in the news industry. I wonder why no one has thought of this before?

Mike

Thanks Mike. And thanks for your own 'digging'. I have on occasions actually contacted the reporters/editors and on one occasion a doctor who wrote a piece - where I corrected something and he emailed me back with a thank you.

Most 'corrections' in the media - papers are page 31 whereas the original story was front page. and the damage is already done.

 

[Lessifer]

@zoiDman Thanks.
@Lessifer and et-al. I came across another article concerning the kid in Canada.
Here is a quote by the father.
"
Greer said the model of electronic cigarette his son purchased on his own is as large as a cigar and is popular because of the amount of vapour it produces.

The device his son used is called a Wotofo Phantom, he said. The company’s website says it is manufactured in China.
I would like to see these unregulated ones possibly banned,” Greer said. “It is horrific to see your kid with his face so burnt."
Exploding e-cigarette ‘lit my kid’s face on fire,’ Alberta dad says | Toronto Star
Regards
Mike

Thanks skoony!

as Kent already pointed out, this mod comes with either top cap. Of course I don't think the guy was using an authentic as his was lime green and the authentic comes in steel, copper, or black. If it was a clone, from china or anywhere else, that adds another level of complexity. The authentic most likely does come with an insert detailing the proper use of the "hybrid" cap. The clone likely doesn't come with anything, it may not even have had both caps.

 

[mauricem00]

Help me understand this accident.
Batteries go nuclear when abused: symptoms as I understand them heat, venting, swelling, explode. So now batteries have a mode where with no warning what so ever they just go boom. Really????

batteries do not vent until the internal temperature exceeds a certain level.with extreme sub ohm tanks this may happen to rapidly for the case of the mod to heat to an uncomfortable level even tho the battery would be too hot to hold in your hand.they do not explode without warning they do get hot first